2011 losses

[TPs flat rock acres]

I just became a member a few weeks ago and can't help but feel so nervous and very sad for all the the mares that have lost their lives or foals. My heart goes out to all of you. I have a couple of mares that will be having foals within the next month or so and it just makes me so nervous as I pray that nothing happens to them and their babies. I have had only 2 foals in the past mares did it all on their own they had babies before but I have all maiden mares this time. Is this common that there has been so many that have died so far this year. since I am a new member it just seems that there has been more than I would like to hear about or is this very normal?

One of the mares is drawing closer to her day as she is bagging more and her back end is getting longer. Can this be like this for awhile still? She is on day 306 from the first time I put her with the stallion.

 

[MindyLee]

Dont be nervous!

It is natural for some folks to lose foals for whatever reason. It's nobodys fault and things happen for a reason. Yes it looks like a bad start of the foaling season BUT you will defently see way more sucess stories real soon as the foaling season is just in the beginning stages for most. Take advice from everyone here as they all want to help others in need and always points others in the right direction. Its sad to see a loss of someones loved one BUT when you enter the world of breeding no matter the type of animal, you must propare yourself for the chances of a unexpected loss or losses.

Yes its hard at 1st and hurts deep down BUT many folks post here to share their experiances which most cases are helpful info for others to watch out for in detailed signs of what may have happened and what others can do to prevent it happening to their own minis. And others need to feel a reasurances that yes it happenes and no its not their fault and we all are here for each other to help each other through difficult times.

Keep your chin up and always think positive! Best way to do so is start thinking of names for your expecting foals. Also others here are always looking for help with naming their foals too, which also keeps others positive here and they too still get to play the naming game.

 

[TPs flat rock acres]

Thanks for the reply. I have been breeding and showing akitas for over 21 yrs and have had my bad times of losing babies some of my older girls. I know there will be good stories along with bad stories but boy not good to hear that the foal season starts off like it has been. Hope it really starts going positive now. thanks again and will start thinking of baby names.

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

It is tough to learn of the all loses and heartache. One important thing to remember is that early in the foaling season, the point most of us in the US are at, is the time when a lot of the late-term abortions and such happen. As many have said, breeding anything, but miniatures in particular, isn't for the faint of heart. But there are so many rewards as well.

Try to relax and let your experience guide you.

 

[Carolyn R]

It is a responsible thing to acknowledge what can go wrong. I don't think, based on this time of year, that the news on the forum is any worse than any other years, but it is always best to be prepared for the worst, hope for the best, say your fair share of prayers and remember to breathe. Seeing and experiencing what can and does go wrong makes one all the more thankful when things go right, something I will never take for granted.

 

[Songcatcher]

Something that would be breeders MUST keep in mind is that there WILL be losses. My father-in-law raised cattle and I heard him say many times, "If you don't have any, you won't lose any."

No one likes to lose one, but if you are breeding, get prepared for it. It will happen sooner than later. Most people don't think of the risks. They just think of cute babies and making sales.

 

[chandab]

Something that would be breeders MUST keep in mind is that there WILL be losses. My father-in-law raised cattle and I heard him say many times, "If you don't have any, you won't lose any."

No one likes to lose one, but if you are breeding, get prepared for it. It will happen sooner than later. Most people don't think of the risks. They just think of cute babies and making sales.

We raise cattle; standard loss is like 5% yearly for cows and 5-15% on calves depending on operation. We seem to run in the 5% range on calves (not sure on cows, as we tend to sell them before they get terribly old and feable), some years worse, some better. I know it sounds harsh, but it is the nature of the business.

Now, with the horses, we definitely hope/plan for better as they are usually also treasured pets and not just business with a bottomline.

 

[TPs flat rock acres]

If you do'nt have any you don't lose any. that is very true and when I have lost pups or dogs I always ask why am I doing this. Its never easy but then we have the fun times of the pups playing and happy puppy owners and those special pups that win in the ring easy that make it worth the while so it can't be much different with the horses. I have lost 2 minis in the past which was really really hard and was ready to just say I quit but time passed and love these guys that I kept going. I guess its apart of life and prepares us for bigger things doesn't it.

 

[Kelsey - Vandy's Farm]

I just became a member a few weeks ago and can't help but feel so nervous and very sad for all the the mares that have lost their lives or foals. My heart goes out to all of you. I have a couple of mares that will be having foals within the next month or so and it just makes me so nervous as I pray that nothing happens to them and their babies. I have had only 2 foals in the past mares did it all on their own they had babies before but I have all maiden mares this time. Is this common that there has been so many that have died so far this year. since I am a new member it just seems that there has been more than I would like to hear about or is this very normal?

One of the mares is drawing closer to her day as she is bagging more and her back end is getting longer. Can this be like this for awhile still? She is on day 306 from the first time I put her with the stallion.

Losing foals is the sad reality of breeding. It is extremely hard if you lose the mare. Breeding is always risky so you have to be prepared. Don't be nervous though. It is very rewarding! We usually average over the years losing about 1 in every 10-12. We have only lost one mare. You should definitely have monitors on your mares, especially maidens! I can't tell you how many times I have heard of foals dying because they don't make it out of the sac. Having the halter monitors is a life saver. We are always there to help the mares and break the sac.

I lost my gypsy foal this year already

it was 3 months too early.

 

[MountainMeadows]

Yes, it is definately part of breeding.

I also happen to believe that with the number of dispersals and auctions that have been going on the past couple of years that there are a lot more people who are breeding miniatures for the first time - a lot of those people have little or no experience with horses, let alone all the special needs of a miniature. A lot of horses have been sold for bargain basement prices and a lot of people have jumped on board the breeding side of business thinking that "they will make a lot of money at this - after all, we only paid $$XXX for the mare & stallion in the first place".

There is nothing further from the truth - breeding miniatures is risky for anyone - but especially for the mare - it takes a committment to giving up your time, experience and usually helpful equipment such as Breeder Alerts as well as MareStare or others who are willing to keep an eye on a mare that is imminent - if you are unable to do many of these things, you are more likely to have a problem and even doing everything 100% right still doesn't mean that you are going to have a problem free delivery and a happy, healthy mare & foal.

Unfortunately, buying a mare and stallion for a "cheap price" doesn't always mean that those same people are willing to spend any money to invest in the proper housing, Breeder Alerts and monitoring that go along with foaling - sadly the mare and foal are the ones who will pay the ultimate price.

 

[MindyLee]

I have to say I do it the old fasion way instead of using pagers and mare stare. My barn is to far away from the house with too many objects inbetween so having any kind of device wont work. My hours at work work with me and dont have to be in till mid afternoon SO I sleep in the barn during foaling season. I have many blankets to keep warm and sleep under a heat lamp just like my mare. I also have barn kittys to keep me warm. I know it sounds rough BUT I do what I must to ensure the safety of my foals arrivel and my mares well being. Since I started this method, I have yet to miss a foaling. Yes it would be nice to have the fancy gadgerts to watch from inside BUT its impossible so this way works too.

My hubby and everyone I know thinks Im nuts to sleep in the barn!

 

[MountainMeadows]

MindyLee - I spent many years sleeping in the barn - long before any of the fancy gadgets were available - have to admit, the fancy gadget are a whole lot easier on the old bones! That said - it is quite the race to get to the barn in the middle of the night at our place - barn is about 200 ft away down a slippery little path - but I am pretty good at making it down there in under a minute!

 

[Make A Wish Miniatures]

I slept in the barn until we got cameras and a foalalert system.. You do what you have to, to make sure you are there for all births. If you are there and lose a foal then you just have to tell yourself you did the best you could. I think that it is your responsibility to be there and if you have to leave then someone is left watching the mares. When the alarm goes off I run as fast as I can to the barn. Sometimes I am not sure how I do it.One time I fell over the Pyrannes on my way and cracked some ribs.. You really do have to get there as fast as possible,some of these mares can foal really fast.My poor husband does all the grocery shopping and goes to the feed store while I am housebound during foaling season. I just don't leave the house. When my daughter was graduating from High School we had mares due so I sent them to be foaled out so I could attend graduation. My son is getting married in May ,When he was trying to set a date for the wedding I planned my mares breeding around that date. I wll be at his wedding May 14th and my last mare that is bred should foal by May1st and probably mid April. I really don't think 2011 losses are any different from any other year. There will always be some unavoidable losses ,but to cut down on the number of foals lost you just need to be there.

 

[Magic]

IMy poor husband does all the grocery shopping and goes to the feed store while I am housebound during foaling season. I just don't leave the house.

Same here, the mares seem to KNOW when you leave and the coast is clear to pop out their foal, lol!

I slept in the barn with the mares for several years too. If you really can call it "sleep" with as cold as it was and the fear of missing the foaling. I MUCH prefer the cameras and Equipage. I went a lot of years without losing a full-term foal, "just" having a few early or mid-term abortions, then lost two in the same year just a few years ago. That was SO hard.

Losses are going to happen, but I agree that it is the responsibility of the owners to learn everything they can and do everything they can to lessen the risks. Breeding is not for the faint of heart, that's for sure.

 

[rubyviewminis]

Maybe I overdo everything, but I had two cameras on my only mare last year. The test strips told us when to be even more vigilant, I watched her all night while I sewed and other things. The very minute the next morning I got up to make coffee, and walked 20 feet to the kitchen and 20 feet to my bedroom door to pull on pants, she went down and was pushing that foal out. She had spent the night eating and gazing at the stars over her stall door with no indications at all.

I must say tho, I leaped and hopped across the house, and didn't touch dirt to the barn I flew so fast! Good thing since that foal was overdue, large, and had an entire leg under her stopping delivery. Read the Complete Book of Foaling and I pinned diagrams of dystocia positions and what to do to correct them on the foaling stall walls. Thank goodness!

 

[Michelle@wescofarms]

It goes with the territory. If you plan to have horses, some will die. If you plan to breed some foals will die, so will some mares. This time of year, it's more common as others have stated, to lose the late term abortions, etc.,

My goal is healthy and alive foals, but if not, save the mare. We've had some horrific years/losses and then last year, six text book foalings without any intervention/assistance - two we didn't know were pregnant. Those are rare. I was telling a friend last year we had no extra vet bills - again a rarity definitely not the norm!

Be prepared and educated on foaling. Stay calm and do what you can, but don't beat yourself up if something goes wrong or you lose a foal as it will happen. I feel worse for the mare that is mourning the loss than anything.

BTW mares are EXTREMELY sneaky! I had one that use to sleep with her head propped up on the feeder so the Foal Alert wouldn't go off. Another delivered (laying like a cow chewing cud not full out), again no Foal Alert. Others seem to 'know' you aren't watching and foal while take a shower, etc. It happens.

 

[targetsmom]

Just another perspective on the losses you read about on the forum now, from an expert on such losses despite college degrees (plural) in animal science, over 50 years owning horses, Mare Stare, Equipage, never leaving the house when mares are due (yep, hubby runs all the errands), and a vet on the next street. Plus over $18,000 in vet bills last year for 10 minis and one biggie.

I think it is a bit like the news - you are more likely to read about the "bad news" because a live foal from an uneventful delivery may just get posted on the pinned thread for foal pictures. And I also know from first hand experience, that posting about the bad outcomes on here is where you find people who really understand and know what you are going through. Unlike your family and friends who may not have much of a clue. And many mares (including ours) are around 8-9 months gestation now, which seems to be a prime time for late term abortions.

 

[wcr]

It is the same every year with the losses and the happy news. If you are breeding you WILL have losses no matter how diligent you are. Experienced breeders post on here that it is not for the faint of heart, **** happens and try to give a realistic picture of what it is to be a breeder. That said, if you still want to breed minis and are willing to take your chances, it is rewarding to have healthy, live moms and babies.

I have learned so much from Michelle @ Wesco farms as she has foaled out hundreds of mares and have even been there for a few disasters. One of the most valuable lessons I have learned from her is that mares can foal if the baby has one leg back. She has had several and had success each time which I remembered when I had one of my own. I even had to talk a nonhorsey husband through a foaling over the phone with this situation when his wife was too far away to get there in time.

I have been breeding horses for 35 years, have about 35 years in the medical profession, use cameras and am very aware of the imminent foaling signs but lost 3 of the 4 foals I had coming last year and just ripped the heart out of me and now I am done. I sat here reading year after year the losses Targetsmom went through and she is experienced. Even with the best of us we have losses. It is a fact of life and you need to be prepared if you decide to breed your mare.

 

[TPs flat rock acres]

Yes, it is definately part of breeding.

I also happen to believe that with the number of dispersals and auctions that have been going on the past couple of years that there are a lot more people who are breeding miniatures for the first time - a lot of those people have little or no experience with horses, let alone all the special needs of a miniature. A lot of horses have been sold for bargain basement prices and a lot of people have jumped on board the breeding side of business thinking that "they will make a lot of money at this - after all, we only paid $$XXX for the mare & stallion in the first place".

There is nothing further from the truth - breeding miniatures is risky for anyone - but especially for the mare - it takes a committment to giving up your time, experience and usually helpful equipment such as Breeder Alerts as well as MareStare or others who are willing to keep an eye on a mare that is imminent - if you are unable to do many of these things, you are more likely to have a problem and even doing everything 100% right still doesn't mean that you are going to have a problem free delivery and a happy, healthy mare & foal.

Unfortunately, buying a mare and stallion for a "cheap price" doesn't always mean that those same people are willing to spend any money to invest in the proper housing, Breeder Alerts and monitoring that go along with foaling - sadly the mare and foal are the ones who will pay the ultimate price.

I agree with you but do know people have to start somewheres. I have been breeding and showing American Akitas for over 21yrs and we see the same thing with dogs that end up in bad homes/shelters or where ever. We worry about puppymills and the people that want to make a quick buck thinking they can breed dogs as well. Only problem with dogs is in one litter they can have 6-9 pups over flow the market even more. We try to teach new people that are coming into the breed the ways to do thing but some have their own thoughts. If done right in anything weather it be dogs or horses there is no money to be made but if one cares about their animals like family memeber they can bring great joy to their lives.

 

[TPs flat rock acres]

It goes with the territory. If you plan to have horses, some will die. If you plan to breed some foals will die, so will some mares. This time of year, it's more common as others have stated, to lose the late term abortions, etc.,

My goal is healthy and alive foals, but if not, save the mare. We've had some horrific years/losses and then last year, six text book foalings without any intervention/assistance - two we didn't know were pregnant. Those are rare. I was telling a friend last year we had no extra vet bills - again a rarity definitely not the norm!

Be prepared and educated on foaling. Stay calm and do what you can, but don't beat yourself up if something goes wrong or you lose a foal as it will happen. I feel worse for the mare that is mourning the loss than anything.

BTW mares are EXTREMELY sneaky! I had one that use to sleep with her head propped up on the feeder so the Foal Alert wouldn't go off. Another delivered (laying like a cow chewing cud not full out), again no Foal Alert. Others seem to 'know' you aren't watching and foal while take a shower, etc. It happens.

Thanks Michelle for the advice. Even after 21 years breeding dogs I worry about everyone of them. I have a girl that will be having her first litter and you just worry about the same type of things. Them not knowing to open the sac in time, Being a good mom, problems with the delivering right possibly c-sections which I had one only thank god and pray I don't have anymore but like those have said if you breed its going to happen. Most I think feel " oh I want a little baby foal" Same with puppies and kittens but they don't think of "what could" happen. I have lots my fair share of pups and older dogs due to age never easy. Have lost one filly at 4 months old and have lost a mare that I just bought. A friend was delivering her to me came in my drive way like a crazy man. Went to take the mare out of the trailer and she couldn't stand. We managed to get her in the paddock and he left me. Being new to this I had no clue as to what was going all. I called a vet wasn't able to get anyone here so I did what I could only think I could do for her. To make her comfortable. She wouldn't get up. Everytime she did she would do a nose dive into the grass. Needless to say a torn heart later and very upset the mare died. A horse person came by and said they thought she probably hit her head as I told him what she was doing. Gave the true meaning of "paying for a dead horse" I will never forgive the guy that delivered her for me with how he handled it and will never forget losing that mare. As I didn't know her it still killed me like I have always knew her. Very sad. So as I think I try to prepare myself I don't think we are ever prepared.

Which brings me to why I posted this. As that time of birth draws near whether it be horse, dog or even a person it makes you really realise how precious life truly is and makes you pray for the best. With having said that Good luck to everyone out there that is expecting babies this year!