Annual post about breeding....

[Little Wee Horse Farm]

Hi All -- Those of you that know me, know I do this every spring. If you've read it too many times before, please ignore it. But, if you are new to minis, please read. I write something new every year, but it always has the same message.

Breeding horses, especially minis, is not for the faint of heart. I'm no one's teacher or leader, just someone who has been doing this a long time.............The expectations of a foal are so great.............only matched by the disappointment and heartbreak if something goes wrong.

I'm just suggesting that if you can't take what might be a bad outcome to a pregnancy for your mare, don't breed, just because it seems like "the thing to do" with minis. Anything can happen with a pregnancy. You can have the best foal ever in the world, or you can have heartbreak and a lost life.

I'm not trying to be cruel, just realistic. Anyone should consider very carefully all the facets before breeding their mares. Here's a question for ya: If every thing that could possibly be perfect is, then what? Have you considered what you will do with the resulting foal? Will you keep it? Do you have the financial means to keep it? The facilities? Will you sell it? Can you? Just things to consider. That baby, if it's lucky, will live 20-25 years.

The worst excuse I EVER heard for wanting a foal was that a couple wanted their children to experience the "miracle of birth." These people had NO plans for what they would do with the foal itself! They had been at our place looking to buy a bred mare. I turned down the sale, but told them I'd call them to come back when a mare was foaling, so the kids could "experience" it. I really meant that.

But, you also need to ask yourself, do I have the knowledge to handle a foaling? Yes, absolutely everyone has to start somewhere. Read everything you can. Talk to breeders & get their knowledge if you can.

Even with the best laid plans & hopes & dreams, things can go wrong. This is just a plea, asking that you are sure you want that foal & that you can handle whatever comes. With every foaling, and I'm not kidding, I find myself standing outside the stall looking at the mare who is about to enter the biggest most exciting most trying experience of her life -- "well, it's just you & me, girl." I know my vet is around the corner. But I also know it's basically just me & the mare. It's scarey but it's more than wonderful when things go well. It's devastating when they don't.

I just ask that you are sure that the mare should be bred in the first place & that you do your best to make sure YOU can handle it. Don't take breeding horses as just something to do. You've got to make it a science & even then, with all of the best knowledge & hope, it can go wrong. Just please be aware of this. I've said it many times before: Breeding horses is NOT for the faint of heart. I dunno why, but I feel this way every year at foaling time. I know I'm in for challenges of my own.

I wish ALL of you the best in this foaling season. I hope your little dreams will be trotting around the pastures in good health & happiness. Please wish me the same!

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[Mijke]

I wish ALL of you the best in this foaling season. I hope your little dreams will be trotting around the pastures in good health & happiness. Please wish me the same!

Thank you for sharing your thoughts & wishes. And ofcourse the same wishes for you

: :aktion033:

 

[ChrystalPaths]

Very well said I will ditto it all!

 

[FairytailGlennMinis]

Thank you so much for posting this! I think this is something EVERYone that wants to breed should read.

-Amy

 

[Loren&Rocky]

[SIZE=14pt]I am not a breeder, as I have 2 geldings :bgrin but I have noticed a lot of foal deaths with minis since joining this forum. On another forum I am on (big horses mostly)there is far less reported deaths and complications than here. I am amazed how many problems there are with minis. I don't know if it is because the mares are too small or what. It does seem like there is a lot of desire for the smallest horse possible with some. Maybe these small mares just can't handle it? One of my goals in getting into minis was to have a small breeding herd, but after hearing about and seeing the pictures of the problems on this forum I am thinking twice about it. Not that I don't have a plan for any future foals, but I don't think I could stand all the complications that go along with foaling out a mini mare. :no: So, I don't think establishing a breeding herd will be for me. Thanks for this post. It has helped me make some choices. I might change my mind some day, but I don't think breeding minis is for me. :no: [/SIZE]

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Thanks Karen, this sort of post at this time of year is always welcome.

I do not think there are actually more deaths in Minis, just more births!!

Think about it- how many people do you know would go out and buy an Arab mare in foal, then get home and realise they a) have no field or b) have no barn??

How many would then think "Oh, I'd better ask about foaling signs"

It just does not happen, or rarely, and also people with a single big horse tend to keep it at a Barn, not in their back yard and there there are facilities, like a Vet that knows horses, if the worst happens.

When you have settled down and know enough to actually make the choice to breed, how many people would consider buying an Arab stallion and a mare??

No, again, it rarely happens, and never, to my knowledge would they go out and buy a herd.

Once you get larger numbers and less knowledge you get problems.

When I was in Arabs I bred maybe one or two foals a year and I lost two foals all the time I was breeding.

Now I am in Minis, even with all the experience I have, I will still lose a foal every other year, on average, as I am breeding ten times as many foals.

IMO it is lunacy to buy an animal in foal if you do not have the experience to cope.

My heart bleeds for the people who post on here every year who have lost foals through inexperience, it is NOT my intention to criticise them, rather the responsibility is on the experienced people to seek out these "newbies" and get them up to speed on the pitfalls.

This thread is an excellent start.

 

[Loren&Rocky]

[SIZE=12pt]Just so you know, I am not new to horses or to breeding horses, just to minis. I have owned a TB stallion, and an APHA stallion. I have had only 2 foals in my 28 years of deling with horses, but there is nothing wrong with that. I don't take breeding lightly and I do think minis have more problems. All I am saying is that breeding minis is not for me.[/SIZE]

 

[Little Wee Horse Farm]

Loren&Rocky -- I didn't interpret your post any other way. My post wasn't meant to single anyone out at all. It was just meant to, hopefully, get people to realize the responsibility/risks that go with breeding horses. It seems you are well aware of those things. You appear to realize that breeding minis is not something you want to do...............that's fine! You've thot it out & that's all I'm asking. :aktion033:

 

[Loren&Rocky]

[SIZE=12pt]Thank you. I am not singeling anybody out either. I just don't want to worry bout my horses that way at this time in my life. :bgrin [/SIZE]

 

[RobinRTrueJoy]

terrific post. You are sooooo RIGHT. Breeding is not for the faint of heart. I cringe when some one calls and wants a bred mare. I will only sell to people with foaling experience and the facilities to do it. Ignorance is BLISS. Newbies that just think babies pop out do not have a clue. I try very hard to educate people that call. I recomend books, videos and tell them to study up for a long time before considering buying a pregnant mare. I feel too responsible for breeding the mare and getting her in foal. My responsibility extends to foaling them too. AND getting my heart broken.

 

[MeadowRidge Farm]

ditto to everything WeLittle said. Breeding miniatures is not for the faint of heart. I bred Arabians for years, only lost one my entire life, and then I got into minis almost 10 yrs ago, and my first year of foaling was more then heartbreaking..I wasnt prepared for the loss of a foal! Whenever I sell a horse to a new mini owner (and some with a little experience) I always try to educate them of the problems they can encounter with foaling. Thanks for this post! Corinne

 

[Jill]

Great post!

Way too many people get into minis and 2mos later, they are getting into breeding. I guess the size and the cuteness of them can make it seem "easy"?

I'm just now setting out the have two of my mares bred, to stallions I admire very much. I've had horses for 10 years and minis for 8, including two foals out of mares bought dispite the fact that they were pregnant. Still, it really puts butterflies in my stomach. I know I want to move forward with this, and have plans regarding the resulting foals, but it is still scary as I (like most of us) adore my little mares and value their well being.

 

[Miss_Fortune]

I really appreciate this being posted. I have never had a foal of my own. I do however now have a mare, & of course the possibility has passed through my head. I have seen many births & have been working with & around miniatures for about 10 years, but I still dont think I am prepared to take on such a magnificent responsibility. When I can convince myself I can handle whatever the outcome, maybe I will try. At this point the idea still scares me. I think thats a good thing though.

 

[Jacquieb]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this subject. I'm new to the breeding part of minis and this will help me be more realistic about my hopes, goals and plans. There is such wonderful caring people on this forum, I am so glad I've found it

Best wishes to you

~Jacquie~

 

[KrisP]

Ditto Rabbit on this one in many ways, people just seem to think "they're little this should be easy", then don't research and either end up with a wonderful new life or a tragedy that might well have been avoided.

Loren and Rocky,

Honestly, I personally don't think there are more losses in minis than big horses when appropriate steps are taken at foaling, thats the key. That said the first two years I was online hubby got very upset with how stressed I was BECAUSE of all the losses I read about on here, I had to come to realize that before I was only in close contact with a few breeders, here there are MANY! And yes, I've had losses over the years, they are heartbreaking and learning experiences.

Another thing to stress, WHY are you breeding? What quality are the horses being bred? There are SO MANY minis out there right now that we all really need to look at our herds and think about this. When two top quality horses can produce a pet quality any given year is it really fair to breed a pet quality horse? In our area you can get a pet quality/grade horse for as little as $100 dollars, do we need to purposely produce more?

And yes, those who know me know I have a good sized herd, however MANY are retired here, they've earned it, several are looking for pet homes and the majority of the boys aren't leaving until they're gelded, it's better for them AND for the future of the breed.

I had 3 foals in 2004, 6 foals in 2005. I only have 5 mares bred for this year, they were carefully chosen to compliment the stallion who has produced a nat champ, but even with this there is a GOOD chance at pet quality out of any of the mares.

I don't ever want to discourage anyone if this is truly what they want to do, but all aspects DO need to be looked at

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krisp

 

[FairytailGlennMinis]

I grew up with big apps and quarter horses. I only remember two foal losses in my 30 years. One of those was a twin that lived almost a month before giving in (the other twin was fine) despite the best care and the other loss was because of the mare getting sick and her milk poisoning the foal. I have seen LOTS of foal losses, despite cameras, vets and experienced breeders. I think there is a much greater attrition rate with breeding minis from what I have seen. My vet says with abortions and other problems, she thinks a good expectation of live births is 75% at best. No, breeding is indeed not for the faint of heart.

-Amy

 

[KrisP]

In regards to the 75%, I'm not going to post my success rate, I'm one of those superstisious horse people, lol! But for me personally the tinies are a bigger problem, thats MY experience, so I don't breed for the tinies, but thats me and my choice from my experiences. But, thats one wonderful thing about the minis, I can't think of any other breed that has as much of a variety of "types", so they can be the horse for so many different people.

krisp

 

[bevann]

I have been into horses,ponies&Minis most of my life.I really think the rate of foal losses and aborted foals is much greater in Minis than in most other breeds.Many years ago we raised Standardbreds and only every lost 1 foal due to the mare coming back from the breeding farm with a very bad case of heaves.Many breeders of full size horse that I know just check their pregnat mares every 2 hours and get live foals.Can you imagine doing that with a Mini mare?I now send my mares to a professional foaling facilty owned by a registered vet tech.They are watched 24/7.She foals out many breeds of large horses and ponies and seldom has a loss. Thank you for posting the thoughts.I will print out your message to give to people who want to get into breeding.When they come to buy a bred mare and have no experience I always ask them if they are prepared to bury a dead foal and maybe the mare.I have 1 friend who has been breeding ponis for many years and she has a super mare that she would love to have a foal from, but is considering embryo transplant due to fear of losing the mare(I lost the mare's dam because we couldn't get the baby out&had to put her down)

 

[capall beag]

I think this is an excellent post and key when you choose to breed any animal.

I also think it brings up the very important Q of 'what are mini's purpose?'

I think the reason so many people breed their mini's is because that is what most minis are seen as ,producers. Unlike a full size horse that you plan to ride, it seems most minis are broodmares or stallions with a much smaller % used for driving, as a first time pony, pet.

I think to try and move away from "everyone that gets into minis becoming a breeder overnight" issue that miniature horses must be sold with a purpose other than as a 'producer'.

That is going to be my goal to work with each of my minis so that they have a purpose other than in the breeding shed

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[wcr]

This is a very timely thread and sentiments I myself have expressed in previous threads. I come into breeding with 30 years of medical experience and about the same amount of years of foaling out horses and always face foaling season with excitement and trepidation. I have never had as many foaling problems with big horses as I have had with minis. It is not for the faint of heart or the inexperienced. Throw into the mix the fact that minis are smaller, more difficult to get into and fix a problem in utero with a malpresentation and you better have the knowledge to remedy the situation. Groping around in the dark with your arm being squeezed and trying to figure out what body part you have your fingers on is not the time to learn.

Sorry for being so graphic but this is a very realistic scenario.