As long as Im on a roll heres something else

[lyn_j]

[SIZE=14pt]People are always complaining that there is no good market for our horses.. Here are two examples. There is a lovely elderly lady Maxine Johnson. Frog Level Miniatures here is VA. She called me recently and asked about auction prices because she had two colts to sell. They were 2 I think. when I told her what the listed prices had been here on the board she nearly fainted.or "fell out" as we call it here in the south.... anyway. She told me that two months ago she sold an older stallion and bred mare, both amha, both in their teens and said " I had to settle for $6200.00 for the three in one package!" I told her she was Darn lucky to get that!!! Few people I knew around here were averaging 3000 for a teenage horse. I told her she did great . Also told her that she probably wouldnt get even gas money out of those boys at New Holland. She also recently sold her secondary heard sire Pepper who 15 years ago she paid almost 5000. for for 3500. and felt she took quite a loss. Again I told her, she did great. None of these were show horses. they were old style but good quality and sold to local people for PETS![/SIZE]

There is still a market for quality sane miniatures.

On the other hand the otherday on our own sale board was an ad looking for a group of amha mares with good bites and color....someone starting out with a new breeding farm...gruffly said...something like if you think you want more than 2000 a mare think again. I know what current market values are and thats all I will pay so dont bother e mailing if your mares are more than that! Or my other favorite..."wanted, AMHa AMHR reg mare correct conformation, color , bred and show quality for 1000 or less DELIVERED!

As long as people exist that want horses for mud bottom dollar to bred from ( Yes I meant to mis spell that) and people that will sell to them at those prices....we will never get the prices we should for our good horses.

I recently sold two gelding, one a coming yearling and one a two year old the younger one for 1500 and he will never be shown the other for 2000. These are good prices for A or B unproven gelding but the quality was there.

If you have a good horse. Set your price Fairly for the horse and dont waiver. The person that SHOULD have it , who will do the best by it....will pay it.

Off my soap box for the day now.

:

Lyn

 

[txminipinto]

[SIZE=18pt]AMEN!! I love those ads for national top ten quality for under $500! :no: You have to wonder what people are thinking.[/SIZE]

 

[Anne]

I read that ad on the sale board, it made me want to grind my teeth.

It's not even "the money" discussed, but the attitude!

I guess if someone responds, and sells them "good" registered mares cheap they will believe they are right, and so will everyone they tell about what they purchased their herd for.

And the "market" will get a bit lower.

 

[Loess Hills]

Lyn, I agree. A quality horse is a quality horse in any market. We're in the process of looking for another mare, and I'm going to shop until I find the right one, and I'm not going to mind paying for a quality proven mare with a great pedigree from the right seller.

I like your phrase "mud bottom dollar". So true. Nothing ain't worth nothing, but it's free. Same goes for horses.

Recently we visited a farm that had some wonderful horses, extended pedigrees, well-known national champion bloodlines. High dollar prices, too. When we began to enter serious discussion, we found to our shock and surprise, that the 2-year old filly advertised for sale nationally wasn't yet registered! Two other young horses for sale were also not yet registred and she wasn't sure who their sire was!

:

: The seller told us " Oh, no problem! I do this all the time with buyers!" RIGHT! The buyer gets stuck with any potential problems with registration, DNA testing, and parentage qualification, plus fees.

I don't want a cheap horse, I don't want possible registration problems, I just want to find an honest seller with an honest price for a quality horse.

There.......off MY soapbox, too!

 

[lyn_j]

[SIZE=14pt]I register babies as soon as they make it thru the second week.... at least with amhr. I cant say that I never sold a horse on application because I did last fall, The R papers were done but the A one was still the application. But I gave the new owner a check to get the registration done. I wish the "in it to make a buck or two" people who buy large numbers of horses at mud bottom prices.... only to sell their offspring also at below mud bottom prices..... would rethink their program.....spend the 10,000 they have spent on 20 horses on one or two good horses, promote them and then sell those foals for at least what they paid for the mare. The market is there for THAT quality horse. I was there at nationals when people were standing in line waiting to see what babies the McCarthys and Bruce had brought to show and started writing checks for them before the show even started. Lee Crutchfield bought 3 in one day for clients. If you are careful about what you produce....spend the money to show and market them, you can sell your babies in the amouns of several thousands even as weanlings. They didnt take a single baby home last year....they were all sold and the cheapest one was about 4000. You have to be willing to put the money into them both initially and promoting to get it out. Wouldnt you rather pay to feed and vet 2 outstanding foals that bring you several thousand dollars than 10-20 pet quality ones that bring next to nothing? No one should ever HAVE to post an add, "bargain basement sale, have to sell yearlings and two year olds to make room for the new crop of babies" There shouldnt BE any new babies if the old ones are all still hanging around![/SIZE]

Whew, that was hard to spit out!

Lyn

 

[victoria]

Gosh this is a problem everywhere.. Last time is made my feelings clear on the matter I was accused by one of the mill breeders of wanting to initiate price fixing...

The gelding chat got a similar response... and the chat about breeding maybe less mares each year was very heated...

:

 

[Tami]

:worshippy: [SIZE=18pt]BRAVO[/SIZE] :worshippy: I couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[CLC Stables]

Lyn there are few times I ever disagree with you........................AND I STILL DON"T.................DITTO FROM ME

 

[Cathy_H]

seller told us " Oh, no problem! I do this all the time with buyers!

Now that is one great seller ! Wonder if we could get some lessons - tee hee..... They probably have sold some swamp land also. Sorry - I got a chuckle from this when I read it. :lol:

 

[schutzandwhinnies]

I am only a year new to the mini's and I have learned a very important thing, that is don't buy what you can't afford. I don't think people realize how much money is actually needed to properly care for your mini and I am including things that "may" happen. Because I didn't know my mini yet or any mini for that matter, I called my vet out as an emergency visit because our mini was very sweaty (she is preggo) and found out that wow the weather is changing, mini's have a very heavy coat from winter, and she was standing in the sun that day and it made her sweat a bit. Holy moly why didn't I think of that??? 250.00 dollars later. I think the cost of the purchase may end up being the lesser of the financial commitment involved in buying a horse. If someone is complaining about paying a few thousand in the begining to purchase the horse, what are they going to do when a really big vet bill is in their future to fix something that their horse is relying on them to fix? Money is a must with owning a horse and if you can't afford a surgery or therapy etc...for your horse if it may come, well then gosh don't get one. People with a cheap attitude at purchase time are most likely to be the ones that the horses are rescued from later because they didn't want to pay "that much money" to the vet for a needed surgery and the horse is found suffering in a stall or pasture in pain. So I agree with gelding and with higher prices to purchase as this will help "weed out" the people that shouldn't own a horse to begin with. My husband agreed to having horses, but along with each horse we purchase we must first save the medical buffer that might be needed to care for it. It took several months to save that up and it might not even be enough it something big were to happen. This concept slows things down a bit, but you end up with a lot of savings in the bank and you sleep good at night knowing you can give your animals what they need if something comes up. Just my 2 cents

:

 

[kaykay]

i also had to bite my tongue when i saw that post. price should NEVER be your first consideration when picking a breeding herd. And if it is you should stop now. And who decides what "todays market value is" is?? Some day when this person has put their heart and soul and pocket book into getting a live foal on the ground shell maybe understand that theres a lot more to it then putting a stallion with a mare. Sometimes you happen across an unusual circumstance and get a great deal on a great horse but that is not the norm. If you want a great horse and want to breed great horses you have to be williing to pay for that.

recently i have met some people looking for their first minis and have been trying to help them. One sent me a pic of a bred mare for sale and she was pretty much ready to buy. This mare was very much pet quality and not something I would ever breed on my farm. (this mare wasnt cheap but wasnt high priced either kinda in the middle) But the buyer is new and thought she was cute because she was pinto. I really really wish new buyers would educate themselves on what proper conformation is before they start buying a herd. I gave her my usual speel about buying the best horse you can afford. Buy 3 high quality mares instead of 5 cheap mares. And to educate herself on proper conformation, bloodlines etc.

One last thing on everyone saying the market is bad. that hasnt happened here?? I get emails wanting to buy horses i dont even have for sale. Last year i sold two geldings and could have sold another if i had one. But you have to put yourself out there. Market, network, go to horse functions, advertise etc.

Kay

 

[minisch]

:aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033: Ain't that the truth :aktion033:

 

[mountain_waif]

....

 

[mizbeth]

I have seen a couple of those ads here recently. Both with different email addys, and 'free address' too. Wonder if they are someone we know?

Yes rude comments from uneducated people who know "nothing about the miniature horse market". A good horse will bring a good price.............ALWAYS!

Maybe they can hit the local cattle auctions/sales? They should be able to get some there reasonable, oh yeah but might not be double registered, bred or pinto ? :aktion033:

 

[Loess Hills]

Cathy H.

Now that is one great seller ! Wonder if we could get some lessons - tee hee..... They probably have sold some swamp land also. Sorry - I got a chuckle from this when I read it.

Not just swamp land but the Golden Gate Bridge! This seller has so many horses - several national champions - and can't keep up the paperwork?????? And yet, she advertises and sells nationally! Could not believe it, and still feel stung. Just can't do business with someone like that. This is another thing that effects the market........sellers who lack integrity. Who especially try to take advantage of newer people, by not providing all the information.

 

[KanoasDestiny]

Ok, I'm going out on a limb here and it's only my opinion, so please don't send me hate mail. I think it is very unfair for you guys to believe only wealthy people should have a miniature horse. I am 25 and have wanted a horse FOREVER. Since I wasn't able to get a horse over those years, I have aquired other animals that I could have. I now have A LOT of animals (cats, dogs, bunny, lizard, rooster). I finally decided that I need a horse to make my life complete. I started out wanting a weaned filly for $1,500 or less. Yes you read that right! I emailed lots of people and I am sure that many got a good laugh, but they were very nice and responded anyways. I also stated in the email that I did not want a show quality foal, nor did I care if it was registered or not. This horse is only meant to be a companion and beloved pet. Due to the other animals I have, I don't think it would be fair to pay a few thousand dollars to buy only one animal, when she isn't ever going to be shown or bred. I take darn good care of my pets, having already spent over $3,000 for three cats since last November. I am not afraid to spend money to save a pet's life, in fact, I will go into debt forever, just to give any pet the best care possible.

I understand your position of wanting the best for show and breeding, but there are a few of us, who can't afford to spend $10,000 for the best. I was very lucky and was able to find exactly what I was looking for, for a price I was willing to spend. And you will never have to worry about my filly being a rescue in the future. I don't have the luxory to spend thousands of dollars to buy a horse but that does not mean that I will not be a good home for her nor should I be criticized because I wasn't picky about the foal I wanted. Some of us are just so happy to get one that quality just doesn't matter, and because of this, I will never be one of those breeders who sale to someone unfit and then cry over the fact that their horse was neglected! If breeders bred less and sold less, they wouldn't have to worry about the abundance and low market for these animals.

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

I have to say while I do think there are to many horses of all breeds being bred also long gone are the days where a mini breeder can get 35-5500,7500 for any horse simply due to it being a mini. Many of these long time breeders go on to me about the market going down, some blame it in AMHR (lol) others blame it on the very same clients they sold to who are now breeding and selling - the last place they look is themselves and that times have changed over the past 15+ years heck even the last 5. That it takes more to have a nice mini then a colorful small one.

I do believe there is a happy medium but I will say it again.. we cant have it both ways selling fillies and colts for even 1500-1800-2500 dollars - using the ploy of breeding in our adds and then complain that there are to many wanting to breed, breeding and wanting 1500 dollar top horses.(that is what most have been sold there as)

Just look at the first 2 pages of the sale board and see how many adds say future herd sire, future broodmare or great broodmare ect. We cant get angry that people are buying what we are selling both in actual horses and in words.

 

[kaykay]

kanoas

no way do i think you have to be WEALTHY. and i did not mean to imply that. you do not have to spend 10,000 on a horse!! Im not wealthy!! But when im looking for breeding stock I know that I PROBABLY (unless i happen into one of those rare deals) am not going to be able to get a nice quality healthy mare for breeding for 800.00. to 1000.00 And that is not my first concern when I go looking. My first concern is to get the conformation, look, type and disposition that fits in with my breeding goals. I and i think the rest of the posters are talking about people advertising that they want show quality or bred mares double registered for 800.00 to 1000.00. That is really unrealistic. Now if you have no plans to breed and want pet minis you can about get those in any price range. And t heres NOTHING wrong with that! But if i am going to take on the responsibility of breeding then i must breed the best horse conformationally, temperment etc that I can. I do not expect to go to another breeder and purchase a high quality mare for nothing. my gosh it costs me alot of money not to mention lost sleep, anxiety and heartbreak just to get a live foal on the ground. To me breeding is absolutely NOT all about the money. But i know if i want to continue doing what I love I have to make a little a long the way

also i know you can get a nice filly for 1500.00 and i dont consider that "cheap" I consider it very realistic for a nice healthy fillly. Sometimes in the right situation you can get a breeding quality, show quality for that kind of money

maybe not one that will win at nationals but one that could do well local

 

[Jill]

Lyn, I agree with you (yep, yet again!).

The other sad fact though is that there are a lot of minis being sold as breeding quality for $1,000 and who are actually worth just that $1,000 and will quite possibly produce foals worth less than $1,000... Lots of that every year.

"We're" making animals that live 20+ years and there's already plenty of pet quality around. There are just way too many people that get their first horse, a mini (mare, of course) who are "breeders" within a year.

:

PS -- and for the record, I acknowledge that a person CAN find quality at a low price, if they look and are lucky. I might even have a couple "cheaply purchased" minis that are very nice

But there's a lot being represented as quality when it's not and that is because a lot of sellers don't really know how to evaluate what they offer.

 

[Shari]

I am going to be a little different here. Ya.. I know..what's new there. :lol:

When I had colts, and others for sale... I had a hard time selling them. Their prices were not that high either, would say fair for the area I lived in. All were Registered. Like I said before... and I am in no way barn blind. Most of you have seen me pick apart my horses. Any how...

Think the smaller farms can have a harder time selling good quality horses compared with the bigger farms that show and are well established.

I was offered $7,500.00 for Theia..and the lady was very serious. Of course Theia was/is not for sale at any price. But the others I had were just as nice as her...their temperaments where even better. It took a long time to sell them,,,and let them go for less than I had planned.

One of the mares was a nice, very, very well put together little Silver Dapple pinto mare,, she had been shown in the NW and did well..so I was told. She had really nice foals too. Took forever to sell her and she was veryyy good Quality.

So Quality doesn't always sell the way one thinks it should, especially if you are small and do not actively show your horses.

The biggest problems as I saw it then... I did not show....the other, there were a lot of other mini breeders near where I was,, and I was/am unknown.

Here I have enough room to really get into breeding if I wanted to and keep everything for years. But that is not my style.