ASPC / AMHR

[Reble]

I have heard a lot of people say changing their breeding programs going more to the taller ones for driving, jumping etc.

Now we have seen alot more ASPC / AMHR.

We have no intentions of changing our breeding program from AMHA/AMHR under 34"

Have been told by breeders that have changed and find the ASPC are more high strong and would be harder for me to handle. Which I thank their honesty.

Not getting any younger, and that is why I got out of breeding Paso Finos which are usually pony size.

Now do you show in ASPC or just AMHR, and for what reasons do you have them in your breeding program, or is it a trend.

Just wondering? Never know might change our minds.

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

I can honestly say that while I hear it often those ponies are hot and high strung... I have yet to see one who was truly high strong or harder to handle. Of course a horse taller then 34 in will be harder to manpower around if need be but in my experience there is not a huge difference in the temperment.

However I am not one who ever found T/B's hot either

 

[Firefall]

I have several that are ASPC/AMHR and they aren't any different than my AMHR only ones.

The reason I got into them is because I like the fact that they can be shown at more shows plus I like the long legs and refinement. In MY opinion, they look like a large horse but in a smaller package.

 

[Cathy_H]

We went from hunter jumpers to miniature horses. Now we mainly have AMHR/ASPC. The shetlands are like the miniature horses & depends upon who you buy them from, how often & if they have been handled. Since 1986 we have bought some wild mini's but R/ASPC horses have been more so. I'm guessing some bloodlines are more so than others but for the most part like mini's, I think it is because they have not been handled. Ours did calm down & were less jumpy except for a beautiful weanling colt which Lee took two years to even try to brush him. We finally gave him away as we had to sedate him to even do his hooves................... As to why we changed - the big horses got to bothering Lee's back too much, clipping the mini's for show & bending started to do the same so now we are doing the middle size horses........ edited - should have proof read earlier.

 

[Leeana]

I do shetlands to, exept my preference is the larger shetlands, however i do have a 39.5'' (as a pony, but as a mini he is rouphly 37'') foundation. I dont do double registered AMHR/ASPC horses, i was actually just talking to a forum member about the mini shetlands on the phone a few days ago.

From what i have noticed, the shetlands have been the smartest horses i have ever worked with. They are extremely smart! Both of my shetlands are imo quite 'hot'. My foundation gelding did actually settled down a bit this past season but but he is still pretty wired. Then there is my shetland filly i just got, she is the hottest pony here, i wont let my nephew who is 5 yrs old near her or in the stall with her. She's not crazy, but she is just what is considered 'hot' and i do love it!

This is my shetland filly, she is going to mature 44'' however if she was going to mature say, 37'' or so and was AMHR i do feel she would kick butt in the mini ring. The ponies, for the most part, have long necks and are very upright and animated which is to what the we strive to have our minis posses. The shetlands are also very consistant in quality imho. Personally, if i want a shetland i want a taller shetland. I just personally like to keep my mini's and shetlands separate. The amhr/aspc horse's are beautiful and i can always point out the shetlands in the mini ring

.

The shetlands are quite extreme in refinement, movement ext for the most part, which i think is why they do well in the mini ring as well. Here is my larger ASPC shetland filly ...

Alpha Farms Magical Melody

From what i have noticed, the shetlands do tend to have a bit more 'spark' to them, some are hotter then the others and some are not at all different from the minis (which as you know range in personality too).

 

[Filipowicz Farm]

Hi Mary, When Walt and I started out our first foal was a colt we gelded who was 1/2 Shetland AMHR registered. We next bought his dam and her foal from the next year and gelded him. We have a few amha/amhr registered horses but we have always like the taller horses. We have a few mares that are amhr registed. We show amhr but this year our trainer show a two year old stallion aspc as a Shetland. It all depends on what you like . I have seen amha horses that are very spunky . The double registered are popular now but go with what you like. We have 2 that are under 30 in size. Our favorite are the aspc/ amhr or aspc Classic Shetlands.

 

[Just Us N Texas]

I like both the under and over minis. We have both. We also have some shetlands that are hardshipped into minis, and AMHR/ASPC horses/ponies. I like them too. The latter seem to do better in halter than the straight mini because of the head/neck conformation. Lots of the minis (no flames please, we all have one or two), have a thicker throatlatch, and the occassional upside down neck. IMO, the reason for the AMHR/ASPC breeding, is to try to iron out some the the lesser desirable conformation traits that some (not all) minis may have. It is in my opinion, a way to try and make our little horses, look like little horses.

 

[disneyhorse]

I think there is currently a "renaissance" with the ASPC/AMHR horses. Let's face it: MOST ALL of the "original" minis WERE ASPC/AMHR minis!!! They didn't appear out of nowhere!

I am glad people are "rediscovering" the ASPC/AMHR horses, I think it will really help the breed. Now that size is less of an issue (breeding dwarfs just to get a smaller size) breeders can really focus on type and quality. The improvement of type and quality at the National level is really astounding to me, as I have only been really into this breed in the past ten years and see a huge difference from attending my first Nationals and now.

The ASPC is bringing longer legs, better motion, more upright necks with more length.

The "hot attitude" is just a stereotype. I haven't noticed it much. However, I think the trend right now is for a more firey show horse in general, be it AMHA or ASPC/AMHR, particularly with the performance divisions taking off. You just can't have a total deadhead try to be competitive in a Pleasure driving class, so people are looking less for mellow pets to drag around and more for a competitive attitude in their horses. Maybe that's just my perspective.

And just because you only like the "under 34s"... the ASPC registered animals are going to increase in AMHA I bet, as they are bred smaller and retain their papers.

Originally the ASPC papers were thrown away or allowed to expire on the minis, to make them more marketable as "not a PONY."

Now, I have seen several nice ASPC/AMHR/AMHA horses.... and I am sure there will be more as time marches on...

Andrea

 

[Boinky]

well honestly I like the more "shetland" type..but the reason why is because the good ones (just like everything else not all are that nice) have great conformation, long legs and refined.. look like a horse ect. Most mini's have been bred for decades to be SHORT and nothing else.. sacrifice conformation for size...there are far more incorrect built mini's than good built ones where shetlands they haven't focused on size at the cost of conformation. generations of good breeding will probably produce a more true structure. Now that the mini's are small few really nice ones..how do you refine what you have now that you have the size? In my oppinion shetlands are the answer right now.

 

[ruffian]

"This is my shetland filly, she is going to mature 44'' however if she was going to mature say, 37'' or so and was AMHR i do feel she would kick butt in the mini ring. The ponies, for the most part, have long necks and are very upright and animated which is to what the we strive to have our minis posses. The shetlands are also very consistant in quality imho."

I am totally against this. I didn't get into minis to have to compete against ponies, no matter how short they are.

If I raised Arabians, and someone said they needed a bigger highquarters, should I breed them to quarter horses because they have it???

Yes, mini's came from ponies. Why are we going backwards? I personally have seen a pony kick the wall for 45 minutes straight at a show. Just stand in one place and kick. I have also seen a guy get whirled in a circle in the middle of a barn by a pony for 15 minutes. He got her stopped, put her in her stall, and went outside and threw up. I've seen them stand at ringside with a towel over their head because they won't stand still.

I like my mini's that my friends can have their 6 - 8 year olds brush for hours. Or my mom can drive around the yard, and she's terrified of animals. I've had people tell me my mini's look like full sized horses. Sorry, most ponies don't look like full sized horses.

OK - flame away.

 

[kaykay]

I always have to chuckle when people say the ASPC/AMHR horses are new. They are not new they have been around forever! There are pony breeers out there that have ALWAYS bred small ponies. Like Andrea said most miniatures were ASPC ponies but when AMHR started many breeders threw out the ASPC papers so they could sell them as "miniature horses" This is why when you see the AMHA/AMHR/ASPC registered horse they are usually older ones that retained their ASPC papers. (not newly hardshipped AMHA)

Lewella can tell you better but for example I have a winks pony. Winks ponies have always been small ponies and that is what this farm has been known for since they started wayyyy back.

And in talking with other breeders that have ASPC/AMHR horses its always funny because when people come to look they have a really hard time distinguishing which ones are which. One breeder told me she had AMHA buyers come out to her farm and every horse they picked that they liked was ASPC/AMHR.

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

"This is my shetland filly, she is going to mature 44'' however if she was going to mature say, 37'' or so and was AMHR i do feel she would kick butt in the mini ring. The ponies, for the most part, have long necks and are very upright and animated which is to what the we strive to have our minis posses. The shetlands are also very consistant in quality imho."

I am totally against this. I didn't get into minis to have to compete against ponies, no matter how short they are.

OK - flame away.

NOt really flaming but.. I have seen minis do the exact same thing in fact I know very ill mannered minis and they are known for biting, rearing and striking, kicking at things at the ingate, needing to be wrestled to be clipped, with people coming away black and blue after attempting to clip- or vets not even being able to work on them.

This is MANNERS nothing to do with hot or spirited horses but manners pure and simple.

While I see your point to me it isnt going backwards by any means it is simply finally calling them what they are ponies.

I know I have said this before.. but if I took 2 poodles bred them called the puppies noodles and bred them for even 15 years just noodles to noodles that would not now nor never change the fact that in reality no matter what I called them or how many generations I had to back it up even with DNA and blood typing to prove parentage.. They are still poodles I am opting to call Noodles

 

[Boinky]

i agree lisa..i've seen mini's that are just as rank..

I also believe a lot of what you see as bad behavior is LEARNED and ENCOURAGED behavior.... i'm not saying it's a good or bad thing..but lets face it.. a spunky wild alert horse is going to show better than one that is dead and asleep. i know for a fact in other breeds showing they do a lot of things to get those horses to constantly be acting up like that so they show well.

This is not flaming at all but I also dont' understand how people can get all upset and say they don't want to see shetlands take over.. mini's ARE shetlands... but even if they weren't there is no rules saying what BREED can be registered as long as they are under 38" but what it all boils down to REALLY is that the shetlands ARE very competitive (which means the "pure" mini lines are loosing) because the mini's for the most part do not have good conformation from breeding purely for sie and shetlands do.. you want to be competitive with your mini's..breed for correct conformation and you'll find you do lots better!

 

[ruffian]

you want to be competitive with your mini's..breed for correct conformation and you'll find you do lots better!

By this do you mean "Pony" conformation? My show stallion has very good conformation - looks like horse.

 

[Boinky]

i didn't mean that to encompass ALL mini's but a majority of them.. i'm just saying in general look at the horses even at nationals..in the past two nationals i've attended i saw many many that really probably shouldn't have even been there in the halter classes..really not well built by most standards.. sure there ARE nice well built ones..but the majority in my opinion are not really well built. well built mini's in my oppinion are a minority not a majority and theoretically people should be trying to change that and make well built a majority and not a minority....

ok i also misread that a little but NO i DON'T mean pony conformation..i mean GOOD conformation.. ANY horse size or breed usually has very similar structure that is considered "good" conformation.. sure there are variations depending on what you DO with your animal but good conformation is good conformation no matter WHAT breed or size.......

 

[Minimor]

I've had people tell me my mini's look like full sized horses. Sorry, most ponies don't look like full sized horses

Well, I don't know what I've been looking at then, because I've seen quite a number of ASPC ponies that look enough like big horses that would easily pass for full size horses, particularly when you see them in harness. Obviously the size ratio of pony to cart/driver gives away the fact that they are ponies--but if you see a photo of just the horse, no point of reference to make a size comparison, many of them would pass for full size horses. I can't say the same for many (if any) Miniatures.
and yes, I would have to agree with the above posters about ponies (as a rule) having better conformation than Minis. As a rule the ponies have cleaner throats, better set on necks and better hindquarters than Minis. Better movement too. Yes, there are always exceptions, but "as a rule" that is the case. It's nothing to do with "pony' conformation at all--good conformation is good conformation whether it's a Mini, pony or full size horse

 

[Boinky]

oh don't forget a good shoulder! that's one thing i rarely see on mini's.. many mini's have very steep shoulders! Ponies could bring that nice long shoulder conformation back into a gene pool of mostly steep shoulders!

 

[skylineminis]

Well, here we go. I can't pass this one up. Ruffian, I agree with you totally. The "Miniature Horse and what it stands for" is being destroyed by the new breeders.

The miniature horse is/was known for their gentle nature. They were marketed for kids and elderly people's companions. Now it's all about show, show, show. There's much more to miniature horses than showing.

When the miniatures first got seperated from the Shetlands, not as many Hackney crosses had been used as there is now. Most Shetlands you see now at the shows are mostly Hackneys, even the Classic's have Hackney. The today Shetlands are not full bred Shetlands. If they were, they would not be shaped like Hackneys nor would they have the "HOT" attitude that Hackneys have. This is going to bring on an onslot of "not mine!!" Reminds me of Pit Bull owners. It's all in how you raise them. Yeah, right. In some casses, that's true but, you won't see those horses in the show ring because you can't catch them. No human intervention.

If I wanted to play rodeo every time I went around my horses, I wouldn't own any of them. Some people do like hot horses, I'm just not one of them. I take pride with my horse herd because people of any age can go into my pasture and play with any horse that comes up to them. Even my stallions. I've has some studs come here as holy terrorers and leave as pussy cats. Really fun to be around and handle.

I've handled a few Shetlands and, No Thank You. They were even supposedly show horses. You never knew what they were going to do. I don't call that fun or enjoyable.

Now that the "breeders" are bringing the Hackney blood into the Minis, it's going to change the whole miniature horse world and it's all over a darn ribbon and points. It has nothing to do with generations of breeding to get that beautiful, docile, small frame horse that can pull three times it's own weight.

Thank you to all the new "Mini Breeders" that are ruining the Miniature Horse. You're doing a bang up job of screwing up a very delightful "breed" of little horse.

Now, go hang up all your ribbons you won with your "PONIES". I will continue to breed and try to preserve the real miniature horse. To me, it's more than just height, it's the whole picture.

 

[SweetOpal]

Thank you to all the new "Mini Breeders" that are ruining the Miniature Horse. You're doing a bang up job of screwing up a very delightful "breed" of little horse.

I will continue to breed and try to preserve the real miniature horse.

Miniatures are a height breed. So anything under 38" in the AMHR is a MINIATURE and can be registered so if it is AMHA or ASPC papered. There is no breed standard other than the size the horse is! Plain and simple!

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

Well, here we go. I can't pass this one up. Ruffian, I agree with you totally. The "Miniature Horse and what it stands for" is being destroyed by the new breeders.

Hmm New breeders I think you have your info wrong and any research you have done wrong as well. This isnt a bunch of "new breeders" these are THE SAME FARMS with years of experience there has not been a onslought of crazed pony people forcing these old mini breeders to own and breed shetlands. I have not yet been accosted by a crazy wild eyed pony breeder telling me I MUST RUIN THE MINIATURE HORSE BREED (which again is a PONY) by breeding my crazy ponies we are a crazed pony cult and MUST RUIN THE BREED and your facts that EVERYTHING shetland is a hackney is again NOT TRUE.

If you dont want to breed or own shetlands dont, if you feel comfortable denying the factual shetland heritage in your minis go right ahead. If you are happy with what you are breeding, showing and looking at every day in your barn then keep doing what you are doing I honestly dont see anyone forcing anyone else to do any different.

THere is no ruining of a height breed as long as the horses measure in .