Breeding 34.5 inch AMHA horses as AMHA

[Norah]

Hello ,

I sold a registered horse AMHA AMHR , as a pasture horse and to do light showing . i was honest and said she wont take 1st place , but she is very nice and well trained , perfect for a beginner ... therefore 500. is a more then fair price , but please do not breed her as she has stiffle issues , and comformationally not good enough quality in my oppinion , and I would hate to see her offspring fall into the wrong hands because of her stiffle issues . I now see on this forum that she advertises that she breeds AMHA horses .....my mare !!!!

I know many of you have run into this all too common problem , can anything be done ? I asked to buy my mare back at double the price ... she wont give them back ... I see she is looking in the USA for horses : (

 

[Matt73]

The only way to ensure that a mare of yours won't be bred is to not sell her. She's her horse now, and you have no say whatsoever....

Edited to add: I gifted an OTTB to a woman that promised to use him in her lesson program on the flat as a first level dressage horse; he had broken his pastern racing as a two year old (surprise surprise). He had two pins in there, but it had healed nicely and he was fit to hack and do flat work...but no jumping. Well....this woman promptly sold this horse as a Dutch Warmblood eventing prospect (with false papers, no less).! To one of her students

. It took a smart farrier to point out to the student that the horse was, in fact, a Thorougbred by showing her his lip tattoo. Looonnngggg story.....the horse is now safe and loved and doing well. There are a lot of nasty, dishonest people in this business

 

[MindyLee]

I hate liers!!!

Just wish folks would keep their word and do things right! Im sorry for your mare you sold but unfortently Matt73 is right, nothing you can do.

 

[Farina]

I myself never buy a horse without contract. We never sell a horse but I believe it isn't done with proper contract either.

If it is clearly written in this selling-contract you could and should take legal consequences.

I for myself don't like dishonest people either.

 

[Genie]

I think "word of mouth" is a mighty sword.

Buyers and sellers should ask for a reference or make a few calls.

Being dishonest or generally have a poor reputation eventually becomes known to the market.

When buying I have requested the names of previous owners on a pedigree so that I can discuss the horse from the view of a person who is not the seller.

As Matt said, you no longer own the horse. Hopefully the new owner's market takes the time to investigate before investing.

 

[alongman]

The only way to ensure that a mare of yours won't be bred is to not sell her. She's her horse now, and you have no say whatsoever....

Edited to add: I gifted an OTTB to a woman that promised to use him in her lesson program on the flat as a first level dressage horse; he had broken his pastern racing as a two year old (surprise surprise). He had two pins in there, but it had healed nicely and he was fit to hack and do flat work...but no jumping. Well....this woman promptly sold this horse as a Dutch Warmblood eventing prospect (with false papers, no less).! To one of her students

. It took a smart farrier to point out to the student that the horse was, in fact, a Thorougbred by showing her his lip tattoo. Looonnngggg story.....the horse is now safe and loved and doing well. There are a lot of nasty, dishonest people in this business

You can have mares surgically sterilized like any other species.....if you wanted to make the investment with a DEFINITE guarantee in the future.

 

[Jill]

I wish the registries would allow current owners to revoke or limit registrations to non breeding on horses they feel are not breed quality. Could have a stamp or similar to note the limitation on papers.

 

[MindyLee]

I wish the registries would allow current owners to revoke or limit registrations to non breeding on horses they feel are not breed quality. Could have a stamp or similar to note the limitation on papers.

Thats a good ideal!!!

 

[Riverdance]

I wish the registries would allow current owners to revoke or limit registrations to non breeding on horses they feel are not breed quality. Could have a stamp or similar to note the limitation on papers.

With AKC, we can sell dogs with a limited registration, which means the dog can not be bred or shown. Now if the breeder changes their mind, they can change that to a full registration. Sometimes a dog we feel will not turn out, surprises us all, or a dog was sold to a pet home that did not work out, and the breeder got it back and decided to keep it.

Too bad we could not do something like that with the horses.

I myself feel that a horse who has gotten taller than 34", should not lose it's AMHA papers. Many of these horses produce foals way under the 34" mark. If a Tibetan Goes over height, it does not mean that it is not a Tibetan nay more, just that one should be careful in breeding it in the future. It may be a really nice specimen, but too big to show.

 

[ruffian]

Is this the only mare she has? Unless she advertises the mare either in foal or with foal at side, you can't truly say she is breeding the mare.

Is the mare 34.5" as stated in your title? if the mare is 34.5 she would no longer be AMHA. Plus you don't say if she's advertising breeding AMHR.

The only way to completely guarantee a horse won't be bred is to do as Adam states, but that's expensive and most people won't do it with mares.

Jill's idea is good, but whose to say if a horse is "breeding quality"? There are a lot of horses out there that IMO aren't breeding quality, but the owners think they are the best thing since sliced bread. I respect the opinion of other qualified people, but no one is going to come on MY farm and tell me which mares to breed. In addition, some "so so" mares and stallions have outstanding foals. Horses with obviously faults - dwarf, stifle, etc - would fall in this category, but that still is a pot I don't want to stir up!!

So unless you have a written contract that the mare is NOT to be bred, and unless you see her advertising that particular mare as bred, you just have to grin and bear it.

 

[OutlawStyle]

I wish the registries would allow current owners to revoke or limit registrations to non breeding on horses they feel are not breed quality. Could have a stamp or similar to note the limitation on papers.

Sadly, I don't think that would help much. They would probably still breed the horse for unregistered babies.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

I've posted on here once before about having non-breeding papers and quite a bit of people were for it but no help to bring it out any further and I have no clue how to write up a proposal. Any repituable breeder should know not to breed horses with bad bites, bad stifles, dwarf traits, etc...yes who's to say whats breeding quality but horses with these bad traits should not continue to reproduce and continue on these negative traits.

Unless you have a contract that states that this mare cannot be bred for any reason then sadly you don't have much of a case. I know people frown at it but IMO if you feel that this mare should not be bred for any reason then give her away without papers. Yes she can still be bred but that foal won't be allowed registration. I know we don't like to see unregistered foals selling on craigslist and what not but I rather see that then negative traits continuing in our registered horses. If these people say they were wanting to show her, fine let them lease the mare out to show but you have a written contract states that this mare won't be bred under there care and if it happens that she is bred you will take the mare back. I don't care if it was an accident they know the conditions they should have made any effort for that mare not to get bred. And if this AMHA mare is over 34" and they are advertising her as an AMHA/AMHR 34" horse next time turn in her A papers.

Its the harsh truth of reality when it comes to the horse business. Its hard to trust anybody these days and you have to protect yourself and your horses. If it was me I would defintelly talk to this person who has the mare and ask her what's going on with the mare and just keep a sharp eye on her. Perhaps if you give them the money back they will give back the mare?

 

[lil hoofbeats]

Why would you have given AMHA papers on a horse that was no longer AMHA eligible? At 34.50 i think that they are revoked? Contracts are not worth the paper they are written on, it only shows state of mind, that is per a judge that is a good friend of my family. Most people would find pursuing someone in court rather expensive.

If you do not want someone to breed an animal, then you sterilize it before leaving your home. That ensures that animals DNA is no longer contributing to the gene pool.

What is pleasing to one persons eye, may not pleasing to someone elses.

Did you sell the mare with papers? transfer? did you state on the signed transfer, that is turned in to the registry, that the mare was 34.50 inches?

When you sold a mare, with papers in hand( my guess is with a signed transfer), un sterilized, to a breeder, exactly what did you expect to happen?

If you were not honorable enough to turn the horses papers in to the registry yourself, because you knew the horse was no longer AMHA elibible, why should this person be expected to be any more honorable, than you were, and not breed the mare?

I am not trying to be mean to you or take personal "stabs" at you. I am only asking you to think about what your contribution to this issue was.

What i have learned in past experiences is, when i am disappointed in how something turns out, it is usually because of something i have done to cause it, or allow it to happen.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

As with the AKC, so with the KC. When I breed a litter of puppies I own them and, at that point in time, I am at liberty to say whether I wish them to be bred (or exported, for that matter).

I tick all the boxes.

My puppies, show quality or not, are sold on a pet contract, thus if someone gets a top winning show dog form me, whoopee, I am pleased for them, but if they get what they were sold, a nice sound pet, they have NO comeback on me if that pet goes over height, or does not show, or whatever. If the animal does prove itself, or if the owners do (as nice responsible people etc) then I can remove any or all of the vetoes.

I do not see why this would make things difficult fro the registries, as horses have far less babies to check up on than dogs do!

It is true that the animal can still be used to breed unregistered pups, but so can any animal, only neutering before sale can truly prevent this.

If the mare really is over height you should really have sent back her papers before selling her......