Breeding question

[Connie P]

I have ALWAYS hand bred my mares. I just do not feel comfortable letting the stallion run with the mares and not have exact breeding dates. I have two mares that I am having a very difficult time catching. I plan to have them cultured and other tests if necessary this spring as I really want foals from them, but I also am planning to put my stallion out with "his" girls this spring. I am thinking that maybe they can just get the job done on their own.

I am looking for others experiences with hand breeding vs pasture breeding and if anyone else has tried to pasture breed when hand breeding has not been successful? and with what results............

I am with my horses alot and am thinking I can still watch and see who is in heat and when and chart accordingly. I do have one mare though that I have to hand breed because she will not pasture breed. She will not stand. UGH..............

 

[Knighthawke]

I do hand breed most of my mares. But I have one stallion that takes so long to court the mare before breeding. With him I will turn him out with the mare for one day. Then turn her out. Then skip a day then if she is in heat the following day put them together for the day again. That way I have the exact breeding dates.

I had another stallion that was really good with the mares and foals and he was always pasture bred. So with him I would put the mare out for 2 to 3 days. Then start to take her out. If she showed heat I would leave her in. If she didnt show. I would take her out and tease her to another stallion. If still in heat I would put her back in.

I will say it would be best to have them checked. I had one mare that I had and pasture bred and for 3 years never got a foal. SO it is best to check with the vet and then at least you are not wasting your time.

I have one I am going to probably be checking this year too.

Barb

 

[wcr]

I have done both and find pasture breeding so much easier and far less labor intensive. We can see the horses from anywhere in the house and watch for breeding or increased interest and note it down. I have a ball park figure on days but you have to watch the mares and know what signs of foaling to look for no matter how you breed. I also think it is mentally healthier for the stallion to run with the mares, at least for breeding, since they are herd animals and we tend to isolate our stallions.

After breeding season and all the hormones have settled down, I like to turn all the stallions together until weather starts getting bad and then they go back into the stallion paddocks. They squeal and posture but no one gets hurt and they like running and playing stallion games.

 

[ruffian]

After breeding season and all the hormones have settled down, I like to turn all the stallions together until weather starts getting bad and then they go back into the stallion paddocks. They squeal and posture but no one gets hurt and they like running and playing stallion games.

Wow - I don't put any of my mature stallions together at any time. I've had too many stallion fights and screaming across the fields to even take that chance.

 

[Becky]

I'm a 'dry lot' breeder here for the most part. My stallions generally run with their mares in a dry lot. This system has worked very well for me. I have as accurate breeding dates as those that hand breed. I write down when my mares are in heat and when they go out. Way less labor intensive as hand breeding and I've had very high conception rates.

I've had good luck getting difficult mares in foal by putting them on a round of antibiotics at breeding time. SMZ's specifically. 14 days starting when the mare comes in heat. You might want to run that by your vet.

 

[minie812]

We do both with Fiesta. He has a couple of mares that are "his girls" and so they stay with him whenever he is out and are content to do so. Then with some of the other mares or outside breeding I will hand breed him. I am home all the time also.

 

[kaykay]

Like Becky we breed them in a pasture that we can see. I usually watch the first couple breedings while I stand there then leave them together for the duration of the cycle. We have also hand bred especially when breeding small stallions to tall mares (they need help) but over the years have found the pasture breeding to have much higher conception rates then hand breeding

 

[Capall Beag IRL]

we always pasture breed here, we find that the mares settle quicker and the stallion is much happier and

easier to manage (he doesnt as get frustrated as when with mares are teasing him in the yard).

the down side is not being sure when foals are due but we are lucky that all mares are easy to catch & dont mind

you checking their udders daily, you soon get to now when the time is right

also if the stallion thinks he's the big boy the ladies dont be long sorting him out,1 flick of an ear and he'll go stand

in the corner of the field

its actually quite funny to watch him getting told off

 

[Connie P]

I am finding more and more people have better conception rates with pasture breeding. I am going to get over my issue with "control" and just let them be. I think it is better for the horses in the long run.

Becky,

I did run that by my vet and they really want to culture first to see if there is an underlying infection going on, but a round of SMZ's wouldn't hurt so maybe I will try both. Thanks!

Izon will be a VERY happy boy come May for sure!

 

[Little Wolf Ranch]

Well, I am not much help but I will put my two cents in

2009 was our first breeding season, and 2010 is our first foaling season. I decided to let mother nature take it's course and I did pasture breeding. I brought home Missy on May 30th and on June 1st she was put out with my stallion for breeding - she stayed in with him until September 30th for added measure. By looking at her, I am betting she caught in June as she is getting a very nice belly and I also felt baby movements yesterday!

Personally, I never saw my stallion mount and breed her. But since she is obviously pregnant (and couldn't have gotten pregnant by her previous owners as they had no stallion on their farm. . .always used outside studs) I know that he got the job done when the time is right. Stallions and mares know when the best time to breed is and I feel like us humans need to step back and let mother nature take it's course.

Just my opinion but the way I see it is even if you know the exact dates a mare was bred - you still have to watch daily for signs of impending labor and birth. Same as if they were pasture bred so I will just let mine go "al natural".

After breeding season and all the hormones have settled down, I like to turn all the stallions together until weather starts getting bad and then they go back into the stallion paddocks. They squeal and posture but no one gets hurt and they like running and playing stallion games.

My stallions also live all together. . .weanlings stay in a seperate paddock until they are a year old but after that, they go in with "the big boys" to live in the bachelor pad LOL. I've never had a single injury over the past 4 years I've been doing this. I find that if owners will let their stallions work it out on their own, everything will be just fine. They work out a pecking order and that's how things go. In fact - I've found that mare bands are much more pushy and mean to each other than the stallions are!

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I don't think conception rates are better with pasture breeding, I think it depends entirely on the way you manage your stock.

I have done both and have settled on Controlled Natural Breeding, although I do not adhere strictly to the blueprint for this method, I have adapted it to suit me.

My stallion has a couple of mares out with him, usually maidens, early spring.

These I can be sure to "catch" in season as they show well. I can tell you, I have sat and watched mature mares with foals at foot for HOURS and never once seen them show in season, so that does not suit me.!!

Once the maidens have gone off season they are left and I start teasing the newly foaled mares. Once they are actively in season the mares (no more than two in season at a time) go out with the stallion. Once they have gone off season they are left in the growing herd.

This way I know when they should be returning, and removing them form the herd just before this allows me, by hand teasing, to tell if they are returning or not, and is very little extra work.

It does mean that the herd "ethos" does not settle down until around June, when I hope to have all my mares settled, but it is the easiest way for me to manage the herd, and the only way I have ever been able to be sure when they were covered (I had one stallion, Rabbits sire, who ran with his mares all year and came to me, age eleven, NEVER having been seen to breed a mare!! He had over a hundred foals registered by that time. I think the foal fairy brought them!!!)

I also run all my boys, geldings colts and stallions, together in winter, again, it is a matter of knowing your animals. Carlos loves being out with the boys, he loves their company and he is gentle and submissive. At present he is out with DC, who is rising two, they play and run. Back in the summer, when the hormones were raging, Carlos got away form me as we were crossing DC's paddock and I can tell you, he nearly KILLED him, I had to kick him off the colt!

A stallion in summer should not be messed with, but most, come autumn, are ready to rejoin the boys club.

Not Rabbit, though, Rabbit juts HATES all males over the age of one year old!!

 

[Fantasia]

I actually had one mare who wouldn't settle unless she was paddocked served! She came to me having been hand served to get her first foal, but after that it was paddock serve or nothing!

I ran my then two year old with mares over winter as he was just full of himself. The girls sorted him out beautifully! He served eveyone with manners and the one mare I did hand serve him with he was absolutely brilliant. He's currently running with a mare and is happy as a samboy.

We had a funny Spring down here and my mares only really started cycling properly in November. And some only covered for first time December! So still in early stages of how many babies to expect.

However looking over my records from years gone by - higher conception rates on the pasture breeding. I've also found the stallions seem to learn when the mares are in full heat and even when they've ovulated. They will refuse to serve. Saves energy I guess

 

[Miniv]

The only time we hand breed any more is to teach a first time breeding stallion how to "flirt" and be a GENTLEMAN.

We began pasture breeding with our old man, Sooner State Raider Light, when we first got him. He REFUSED to be hand bred and would suck up when led to a mare on a lead. He was one of those experienced fellows who knew exactly when a mare was Prime in Heat and didn't waste his time and energy either before or after.

I've noticed that our other fellows eventually learn that same "art" with age and experience, if given a chance.

I keep a special Calendar and document when our mares are showing heat, when a breeding is witnessed, every birth, plus any abortion (and death)......... It becomes vital to save these calendars over the years.

 

[Connie P]

Yes accurate charting is vital when breeding. I always start watching all mares closely 6 to 8 weeks prior to their first due date.

 

[Filipowicz Farm]

We use to just hand breed and now we just pasture breed and keep a close eye on who and when we see them breed and if they come back in season. Have had better luck pasture breeding

 

[Miniv]

Yes accurate charting is vital when breeding. I always start watching all mares closely 6 to 8 weeks prior to their first due date.

DITTO Connie!........ I will pull out my calendar in February (or even in January) from the previous year and begin documenting when to begin watching each mare. I "chart" in a simple spiral notebook. Some breeders call it a Diary. It's also a good place to record special events with a birth.......ie, a Red Bag or ??? All of these calendars and spirals are saved and filed away.

 

[MountainMeadows]

Been there, done that - will never pasture breed again

:No-Sad . A well placed kick can ruin a stallion - I will take the chances of being in more control via handbreeding vs letting "nature take it's course" ever again.

Stacy

 

[dgrminis]

We always handbreed each mare on one heat cycle (sometimes two) before turning them out on pasture with the stallion they have been bred to -- that way we know the EARLIEST possible foaling date based on our hand breeding and we also know the latest possible date because we pull all the stallions out by a certain date.. We have some mares that even though we bred them by hand NEVER take until their first heat pasture breeding and then we have some that will not pasture breed even if they didnt take when hand bred... So just depends on the situation....

Also -- I am not sure who mentioned the stallions running together BUT I also let my stallions run together in the off season... We have NEVER had any issues with them running together as long as it is NOT breeding season... We also have a pen between the stallions and the mares so they are not right by each other or the stallions will work the fence line...

 

[~Lisa~]

I am not breeding anymore but I can say I personally will never pasture breed and every time I do have a stallion cover a mare she will be hobbled. We had a stallion lose his fertility after a 1 in a million kick from a mare who was by the way in standing heat. She just didnt like the way he approached her and whamo. If I were to breed again I would continue the same practice. I put a lot of time and money into choosing a stallion and to see a breeding career go down in flames so quickly like that...for me just not worth the risk.

Having had to break up a true stallion fight I would never put stallions togther. We had one get out while another was turned out. They had been previously nose to nose but not together with neither showing agression

It was horrible my x husband and I and the horses were all bloody battered and bruised. They were going to fight to the death no doubt about it. THe thing that sticks out in my mind the most was how silent it was- there was no squealing or screaming only sound was breathing and the sound of hooves making contact- it was very scary and literally took us with 2x4's and rakes and shovels and whatever we could find and a lot of luck to get them to stop long enough to seperate them. Having had horses all my life and usually 16-17 hand horses I can honestly say that was the scariest horse moment I have ever had

 

[Connie P]

Stacy,

Please know I am not being sassy...... I am just very interested in knowing if you use hobbles then - because there would be no way to control a kick even if you hand breed without them. Do you use hobbles on every mare?

Lisa - looks as though you and I were typing at the same time. So you did hobble each mare. I would think that would be the only way to assure no kicking.