Breeding question

[NursesRock]

Hello all! I'm sure you will understand by my questions that I'm a newbie to this forum, and to keeping minis. A few months ago, we acquired our colt who is going on 14 month of age. We've got wonderful accommodations for him and he's been happy but lonesome as we are working during the day. This past weekend we got a 2 year old mare - we have then separated but allowed them to visit first through a fence then today we let them pasture together, supervised in case there was any drama. You can all likely guess what happened next.... The colt immediately mounted her, there was then a fair amount of hitting and kicking, then running. They settled down, grazed and drank a few minutes, then a little more drama. We made the decision to separate until further notice. Once we did this, the mare began showing her stuff and is apparently in heat.

So these questions need to be answered as we wouldn't mind having a little one next spring:

1) what are the risks to the mare/colt/foal as everyone is so young?

2) how likely is it that she could become pregnant through the fence?

3) if we allow them to breed, then geld him- could they then be put together assuming the get along?

Thank you in advance for your advice!

 

[Debby - LB]

Welcome to our forums! and to the wonderful world of Miniature Horses. I'll try to answer your questions. You may get a lot of different answers but different opinions are always good.

1) For one it's not a good idea at all to knowingly breed a 2 year old.

2) 100% likely she'll get bred through the fence.

3) Once gelded after a few months yes you'd be able to put him back in with her. It may or may not keep him from trying to breed her though. Since he's so young he may not but I've not had a gelding that still didn't try.

I would make sure they are separated, maybe you can run another fence line so that they do not share it. If you saw him breed her I'd have the Vet out to give her a shot.

Not what you wanted to hear I know. Foals are so sweet and we all want one sooner or later but not now for your Mare, wait a couple more years.

-

 

[Tess]

Hi,

I have a new 7 year old gelding who was just gelded less than two weeks ago. I also have a 10 year old mare. The same thing that happened above happened to my horses. I am a new owner and did not know when I could put them in the same pen so I contacted the seller who was the one who had him gelded. The seller said it was okay to put them together, apparently not.

Is it possible that my mare could have a foal?

Thanks,

Tess

 

[Ryan Johnson]

Hey Nursesrock,

I agree with Debby in saying that I would be waiting another couple of years before breeding your filly. 2yo IMO is too young. The answers to your questions would be made solely on weather you intend to get him gelded or not

Im sure they would get along just fine if he was gelded but at this time I would be keeping them as far away from each other as possible. When there is a will there is a way and even a fence wont stop him going after what he wants.

I also agree that the vet should be called if you saw them breed.

A big welcome to the forum

 

[Miniv]

Yes, a 2 year old filly AND a 14 month old colt are BOTH too young to breed.....although both are capable of it. It's the equivalent of a high school girl having sex with a middle school boy.......in human terms.

When separating them, fencing is important. It would be nice if they could see each other, but most livestock fencing also may allow for them to have "contact", if you get my drift. You didn't describe what kind of fence you have.

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This is to Tess with the 7 year old new gelding.............You probably figured out already that 2 weeks after gelding isn't long enough. If your mare was in heat and they truly connected, there is always a possibility of a pregnancy because it takes longer than 2 weeks for your fellow to start shooting only "blanks". I'm not sure of how long it takes,

perhaps two or three months(?) .........depending on the boy, before he will actually mellow out and lose interest. Some folks go by a time table based on how old the horse was when gelded....when they can be blended into a herd with mares, but I don't remember what it is.

 

[chandab]

Tess, how soon after gelding did you get him and put them together? I'd talk to your vet to be certain, but gelding removes the testes, and they produce the sperm; but there are accessory organs that store sperm and I want to say it's stored for like a week to 10 days, but not certain on the time frame of that. That said, being he was 7 years old when gelded, if he was used at all for breeding he'll have those thoughts in his head even with out testosterone and sperm; I've heard it takes a month for every year of age at time of gelding to get rid of most if not all stallion like behaviors; so since he's 7 years old, it could take 7 months for him to really settle down and act like you expect a gelding to act.

[ok, I just read on a website (book author), that sperm can live in the ampulla for upto a month after gelding. So, I guess it might be a good idea to have your mare checked by a vet, if you think he fully got the deed done.] Came across this on another forum: " He was turned out with the herd 11 days after the gelding and didn't have any issues at all (the vet explained that there are no viable sperm left after about a week with 10 days being safe). "

All new horses should have a quarantine time away from existing horses when you bring them to your property, at least 3 weeks typically to be sure they don't bring anything onto your property that could get your current horses sick. [Less risky with known horses to just put them together, but even those should be introduced across a fence so they can get used to each other before putting them together. Definitely a must with auction horses or horses with unknown background or questionable background.]

 

[FurstPlaceMiniatures]

Call your vet and get him gelded! 14 mos is a good time to do it. Dont feel ashamed - it can happen to anyone. I've had horses for forever and currently have an unplanned pregnancy. We are terminating it next weekend. The filly is barely barely 2 - and is a hard keeper anyway.

I have a stud. She was in a rip roaring heat at a show - he stood tied next to her ALL DAY without incident or trying while she was winking and spraying - what a god boy! She was more up about stuff than he was. Never once did he try to mount or even show himself.

The very next day the little jerk got through 2 fences (mesh and board) and under another VERY hot one and proceeded to potentially 'consummate his marriage' with her. He wasnt the least bit interested the day before at the show - but he knew he wouldnt get it then and had to try to be sneaky. Jerk.

I've always heard its 3 weeks for the 'one shot left' rule.

 

[sfmini]

All good advice above.

A very important question is why do you want to breed? Is your mare a spectacular representative of the breed and her foal will contribute to improving them? Same for your stallion?

Then geld him, and don't breed. The presence of sperm and ovaries are not a reason to breed animals (or humans for that matter). The sad and honest truth is too much of that has been going on in horses, dogs, cats and the unwanted are going to slaughter, shelters (put down), abused, neglected.

Rather than breeding, waiting a year, risking the life of your mare and or foal, buy a weanling when you are ready for a little one. You get the sex you want, looks you want, color you want, and you haven't increased the population.

Breeding is not for the faint of heart, everyone on here who has bred their mares can tell you stories of foals aborted, lost at birth, born alive and lost because they weren't there to assist at the birth, mares lost to bad foalings. Also, do you know if dwarfism runs in either line? You could run the risk of creating a dwarf. There is limited genetic testing available, but it isn't comprehensive enough yet.

You have to be willing to accept that risk.

I've told the same to some folks who asked about breeding to my champion Pembroke Welsh Corgi. He was on the large side, the breed has a high risk of c-sections anyway. By the time I was done talking to them, they planned to spay their beloved girls and thanked me. I'm sure Frasier wasn't too happy with me, he never saw any action, but it turns out his not breeding was the best thing I could have done as he and his littermates developed a disease that only shows late in life that is genetic and shortened their lives and quality of life. There is a test for that now, I would never have even gotten him and his brother based on that test. Just grateful I didn't keep propagating that horrid disease. It's the canine version of ALS (Lou Gherigs Disease).

 

[NursesRock]

Thank you everyone for your thoughtful replies. We've been able to enhance both areas for each horse where they can see each other, have plenty of room but no chance of accidental pregnancy. Both are happy and we walk them daily and allow them to "visit" with supervision. We are having a great time with them and I feel secure they are happy with their new homes! My mare came from a local family who had 4 in a small city backyard so I know I'm providing Charlotte with a better life.

I've spoken with my vet and begun the process for gelding and we are comfortable and anxious for this so Toby and Charlotte can spend time together. Like most of you have said, just because we can breed them doesn't mean we should. Perhaps in the future we can consider another friend, it's certainly not a necessity.

Thanks again for your advice!

 

[HGFarm]

Welcome to Minis! I too will add my two cents worth. They are both way too young to be bred. Three is the earliest that I would ever consider breeding a mare and two for a stallion, and that is pushing it. Also, I will tell you that after decades of big horses, breeding Minis is not for the faint of heart! MANY things can go wrong. I have lost a few foals over the years and this year about gave it all up when I lost a foal and then lost a mare that was very special to me- and her foal, in an impossible birth. Are you willing to risk your mare's life having a foal? Do you have the facilities and knowledge to bring a foal into the world when it's due? What are your plans for the foal? Personally, unless you have a specific breeding program for a purpose, I would never risk it. After 20 years of breeding Minis, this year was just about enough to make me want to throw in the towel. (And that mare was a five year old- four before she was ever bred)

YES, mares can easily be bred through the fence. I know several people that it has happened to. I have a couple of mares that are quite accomidating to any stallion any way they can be when they are in season, LOL

Something to consider might be to geld the colt, and after a couple of months, they can be pasture buddies without the stress and risk involved.

 

[Michelle@wescofarms]

It's really wonderful you are asking questions and learning!

That said, I wouldn't let them out together at all, ever. We had a year of fence jumping, thru the fence breeding, one shot wonder escape artists which results in seven foals over a 10 month period. That was the year I said I wasn't going to breed too!

If you don't need to breed then don't breed. Many people want a specific type of horse - it's easier to buy it then breed it! As Laurie of Heather Glen said, you can lose the foal, lose the mare, lose both - it can happen.

But, as it sounds like you just want to enjoy your Minis and have them be buddies, so it's wonderful that you're going to geld your colt (give him a couple weeks for all the sperm to die) and let them be friends. You'll all be happier!

 

[Rocklone Miniature Horses]

14 months is over 1. Ah.