Coat Color VS. Quality

[Little Wolf Ranch]

Well, long story short I was talking to several breeders and it seems to them that if the horse does not have any sort of pinto heritage or pinto markings, it's not worth any more than $400 period. No matter what gender, age, height, bloodlines, what conformation quality, etc. and to me this is very disturbing! I understand people have breeding programs but to put down a solid colored horse just because it is solid colored and say it is worthless? Not right in my eyes! I have always been raised to believe that a good horse is a good horse no matter the color, and this fact stands true to my belief. I even have a pinto breeding program but I also have two nice solid colored horses in there as well simply because they have the conformation and bloodlines that I would like to add to my program, so color is not always what it's cracked up to be!

I just wanted to throw this out there for discussion to see what people think! Please let's keep it nice and friendly.

Thanks!

 

[Jetiki]

In my opinion a good horse can be any color, doesn't matter if its pinto, appy, black, grey, chestnut,or a dilute doesn't matter to me if they have the conformation and temperament I am looking for and will do the job I will be asking the horse to do. In my book its Conformation and Quality over color.

Karen

 

[RhineStone]

Generally in the carriage ring, the ADS judges seem to like the solids better! (Mrs. Vanderbilt wouldn't be caught dead driving a pinto!) However, the MAIN focus is that the horse perform well and behave well.

So if your horse is being "dissed" in a certain ring because of its color, find a different ring!

A good horse is never a bad color, but a bad horse can be any color.

I'm personally a little tired of pinto minis.

 

[Make A Wish Miniatures]

I really couldn't care less what color a horse is. I look at the horse first , color is just icing on the cake. I Love Buckskins ,but if it did not have good conformation I would not want the horse just because it was a Buckskin.

 

[Riverdance]

When someone is breeding for color, they tend to let faults go, or they are unable to see the faults because they can not see past the color.

This is true in horses, dogs, cats, etc. Anyone breeding for a certain color will eventually end up with nothing but a bunch of junk.

I have seen this time after time over the years. In dogs first, then in Morgans and then Miniatures. The Morgan was either black, bay or chestnut. Then someone, somehow got palomino and buckskin (must have bred to something other than a Morgan and got away with it before DNA). They all continued to breed for color, grays and pintos followed. Non of them have the proper conformation and have not been able to do much in the show ring.

One might start out with pretty good horses, as they bought better quality, but they will loose that quality if they just breed for color.

People seem to be really blind to conformation when they see a loud color pinto or Appy.

 

[Field-of-Dreams]

Does this mean I can go buy Buckeroo or Double Destiny for $400, since, after all, they ARE just a solid. *snicker*

Yeah, right....

tell that to my Halter Hall of Fame solid BAY gelding, and my friend's AOTE Sr Stallion- who is solid CHESTNUT.

Lucy

 

[Minimor]

I have seen this time after time over the years. In dogs first, then in Morgans and then Miniatures. The Morgan was either black, bay or chestnut. Then someone, somehow got palomino and buckskin (must have bred to something other than a Morgan and got away with it before DNA). They all continued to breed for color, grays and pintos followed. Non of them have the proper conformation and have not been able to do much in the show ring.

I suggest that you check your facts--the cream gene has been there in Morgans "forever" and it was there just as legally as any of the other colors. You just didn't see a lot of the "colored" horses because they weren't the in thing. IMO it's pretty harsh to say NONE of the colored Morgans have proper conformation. I agree that there are plenty out there that were bred for color only, with not much care for conformation...but I also have to say that the same sort of thing applies to many of the "proper" colored Morgans too. In their case they weren't bred for color, but more for "pedigree" and they're hailed as great horses because they have XXXX 6 times in their pedigree, no matter that they have really BAD conformation! I've never had a colored Morgan but would take a good many of them over a large number of today's show Morgans!! In any case, the reason many of the colored ones haven't done well at shows is nothing to do with their quality, it's simply that a good many Morgan judges were (and still are in some cases) prejudiced against the golden colors! One of my favorite Morgans ever was a buckskin that was shown locally by someone I know--he was so pretty, with very correct conformation, but he never did anything in halter, even though he was by far one of the best horses in the ring at the time. Had he been a bay he'd have cleaned up at the shows.
Breeding for color isn't the thing to do, by any means, but the sad truth is there are plenty of people out there who aren't breeding for color and still can't get much in the way of quality! People breed for color, for pedigree, for child-quiet personality, for pretty heads, for whatever, and many get so focused on that one trait that they forget about everything else.

 

[Riverdance]

I suggest that you check your facts--the cream gene has been there in Morgans "forever" and it was there just as legally as any of the other colors. You just didn't see a lot of the "colored" horses because they weren't the in thing. IMO it's pretty harsh to say NONE of the colored Morgans have proper conformation. I agree that there are plenty out there that were bred for color only, with not much care for conformation...but I also have to say that the same sort of thing applies to many of the "proper" colored Morgans too. In their case they weren't bred for color, but more for "pedigree" and they're hailed as great horses because they have XXXX 6 times in their pedigree, no matter that they have really BAD conformation! I've never had a colored Morgan but would take a good many of them over a large number of today's show Morgans!! In any case, the reason many of the colored ones haven't done well at shows is nothing to do with their quality, it's simply that a good many Morgan judges were (and still are in some cases) prejudiced against the golden colors! One of my favorite Morgans ever was a buckskin that was shown locally by someone I know--he was so pretty, with very correct conformation, but he never did anything in halter, even though he was by far one of the best horses in the ring at the time. Had he been a bay he'd have cleaned up at the shows.

Actually, I do know my facts. Back in the late 1800's early 1900's there where no dilute Morgans. It was not till the early 1950's that dilute Morgan horses where even noticed. Mainly because of a Perlino. In the 1960's the American Morgan Horse Association passed a rule regarding whites because they felt that there was indiscriminate breeding going on to produce the cream gene in Morgans.

Now since in the early 1900's there where no cream genes in the Morgan registry, and a few years later there where. It stands to wonder what other breed was introduced into the morgans to get that color.

Today, breeders are going for just color in this breed, as well as other breeds and are sacrificing the conformation of the breeds. Are there horses that are beautiful in these colors, for sure. But when one focuses their breeding program on just color (even though they say they are doing conformation and color), one tends to get barn blind and see the color first.

 

[eagles ring farm]

When we first started to breed we had the idea of consintrating on Pinto conformation coming first

but now have changed our program shortly there after since I really seem to fall for the solid color horses just as much if not more. It is conformation and temperment first and color last for us. Of course there are colors I like better than others and fortunately our stallion is homozygous for black so I am very happy with the color he gives us with our mares. But always conformation first.

 

[JaiteraMiniatures]

I agree with you completely. Don't get me wrong I LOVE the little pintos, but to me color is just the bonus, conformation is a lot more important in my eyes.

 

[Jill]

You must not be talking to very reputable / knowledgable breeders. Conformation far outweighs any other physical attribute. Personally, I prefer solid color horses and really like cream dilutes. Most of our breeding horses carry cream dilute, but they are all very well made animals or they wouldn't be our breeding horses. Some of them are even pinto

 

[Katiean]

I have what some would call bland colored horses. I don't care. Yes I would love a bright red (color to the eye) Bay or chestnut with a blaze and stockings or something Black and White. But I have a black (supposed to be bay) 2 silver dapples with appy characteristics and a plain, nothing flashy brown snow cap appy. I have no flash in my color. I have some nice horses that have talent for driving. I would not have passed on any of my horses on color alone.

IMO the first thing you look at is Price. Can I afford this horse. Second is conformation. Then you look at temperament, breeding, training or train ability then color. The color is just the icing on the cake.

 

[targetsmom]

I have done a bit of thinking about this because our goal when we got into minis was to breed top quality PINTO minis - that could be registered with the Pinto Association. Our current big horse is a Pinto and we have been showing on that circuit since 1996 so it made sense to breed for what we were most familiar with.

But we do not BREED FOR color, it just happens to be one of our selection criteria. When anyone shops for a horse, there are always criteria they start with, whether they recognize it or not. For example gender, size, registry, purpose, temperament, price range, location... in our case, color is one of those basics. That is even before we get to conformation, bloodlines, etc. and is probably why we have such a small herd!

Now in our case, we think we are changing our goal to any color mini, especially if it looks like Max. And even when Max turns gray I don't think he will be a $400 mini.

 

[minie812]

My favorite color is a dark black bay (kinda like a Hershey Chocolate bar) but shiney..mmmm and the bonus is pinto markings but I have a favorite mare...Gracie that is that color with the dark mane and tail and I think in the sun when it is shining on her is soooo beautiful!

 

[sedeh]

I show Pinto so naturally that's what I'm breeding for. However, conformation does come first with me. I have a small breeding herd and it's getting smaller all the time! IMO there are too many pet quality mini's out there already and if I don't love what my stallion and a mare produce I'm not going to re-breed them. I have a couple mares now that I didn't like the cross and they'll be pets and, unless I get another stallion, won't be bred again. I will keep breeding what I call my "power" mares that produce outstanding foals. I don't care if I only have one or two foals a year. I'd rather put quality foals out there than just numbers.

 

[kaykay]

When someone is breeding for color, they tend to let faults go, or they are unable to see the faults because they can not see past the color.

If they are ONLY breeding for color that could be true.

We have always preferred pinto and overo because that is what I love and its my money and my time so I will buy and breed what I like to see out in the field. But that is never our main concern. And in talking with pinto and overo breeders for years now the majority would also tell you that. Conformation is always first.

Face it everyone has a preference weather that be pinto, appy, dilutes, solids. Everyone should own what they like.

I got teased a lot years ago when I bought a grey stallion. People said omg what are you going?? Youll ruin your pinto herd LOL. I got this beautiful filly out of it and never regreted it for a minute. A great horse is any color. Bred him to a bay frame overo mare and got this:

I have had offer after offer of people wanting to buy her so I dont think her grey SOLID color hurts her even one little bit

although I must say she does stand out in a herd full of pintos LOL

I would never pass up a great horse no matter what color it was.

 

[Carolyn R]

Conformation should always come first. A nice horse will typically demand a higher price than a horse with faults and, well, a very nice pinto or ap will demand a high price too.

I think it should go without saying, regardless of a pattern preference, I believe in the concept "save and buy one very nice animal rather than 10 pet quality ones".

I think it is untrue/unfair to say a solid horse holds no value as much as it is untrue/unfair to say every pinto/ap must be lacking in some way because a owner sacrificed in other areas to achieve that goal.

One can have their cake and eat it too, regardless of preference, if they are willing to be patient, be discriminating,and above all else, save their pennies.

This is not meant to be directed at anyones responses, just my own logic on the matter.

 

[Tab]

I really couldn't care less what color a horse is. I look at the horse first , color is just icing on the cake. I Love Buckskins ,but if it did not have good conformation I would not want the horse just because it was a Buckskin.

I couldn't agree more with what you have said! This is a peeve of mine, as well. I love pintos, but I expressly purchased what I thought were solids because the horses themselves are what caught my eye. I have grown more interested in color breeding and bloodlines over the years, but a great horse is never a bad color

 

[Miniv]

Do you know what happens to me????

When ever I discover an absolutely wonderfully conformed horse (big or small), the color is BEAUTIFUL for that horse!

For example -- If you ask me what color Stacy's "PRINCE" is? HUH? I'm guessing .... a bay roan? (right?) Does it MATTER???

I agree with a previous poster..... If someone is puting value on just the color of a horse, they are exposing their lack of equine knowledge, and since they are spouting out without much knowledge, they're not very smart in general.

 

[Sue_C.]

Historically colourful Morgans

There were a lot of coloured Morgans, but very commonly mis-coloured with the registry. It was common for palominos to be registered chestnut w/flaxen, buckskins were registered as bays, etc... We see a lot of this with our minis too; not out of necessity, but colour ignorance.

When developing a breed, such as the Morgan, there were so many breeds involved, one cannot know where the genes really originated.

As for breeding for colour, one has to be careful of severe barn-blindness, and take a long hard look at their breeding program, and be ready to cull hard.