Confused Prefix/Suffix

[Boinky]

I agree with you lisa. to me the price is not the issue at ALL..it's what is not being fixed by price alone. to me it would make more sence to FIX the problem not to slow it down (which is all they are doing with raising the price). i posted in the last thread on this how i felt that name copying was a HUGE issue with me. it's not right and THAT needs to be addressed as well. why should ANYONE pay $20 let alone $200 to reserve a name that truly isn't reserved and can be copied by changing punctuation or slight spelling. makes no sence to me... then all this prefix/suffix crap could have been solved primarily by MAKING people use their suffixes as true suffixes. plain and simple sounding solution to me!

 

[Jean_B]

Again I have no issue really with the price being raised it is the lack of notice that we as members got that I take issue with.

Give us 48 hours, 72 hours something

and if really trying to change things then change the way they are accepted not the price of them jmo

Well...I KNOW you were part of the discussion on this very topic several months ago on this very forum. And I know that there were several posts about how to get this and other issues on the agenda at the convention. There is a strict protocol on how items make their way to the agenda. I know that the home office was aware of the issues. So don't say you weren't informed...someone somewhere made a suggestion THRU THE REQUIRED CHANNELS on the required forms, and it ended up on the agenda. Now just because you didn't go to the convention, do not say you weren't informed! If it was important to you, you could have asked - "who is going to the convention?" on the forum and then told them that if this topic came up - here is my view on it....or better yet - you could have gone to the convention. Not every decision that is made by the BOD requires input from 100 percent of the membership!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is ludicrous in the extreme and all progress would come to a SCREECHING halt. They are elected to make those INFORMED decisions (decisions that are made with thought and without emotion and hopefully without personal bias) so that the organization can remain strong and move forward.

 

[Buckskin gal]

Okay Jean if the money isn't needed by the organization then they should not have made it a money issue. There were other ways to solve the problem, as been mentioned. I am quite sure tht if I done a search on the forums I could come up with the reason it was voted on to handle it with raising the price, was because they didn't think of other ways! Anyone that is selling a lot of horses for thousands of dollars may not mind paying the $200.00 but on the other hand those of us who only have a couple foals a year and still would like to have them carry our farm name do find it a costly expense on top of many others that come along. I just don't like the fact it was handled with raising the costs...especially since you say they don't need the money!

: Mary

honestly i think it kind of sucks that only people that go to the convention get to vote and are informed on this stuff. the other clubs i belong to all have proxy voting via- mail and they ask their membership if this is what they wish to do. I'm not saying they do this with every little detail but anything major especially they do it with. I'm sure only a very small percentage of the AMHR membership make it to the convention to make these decisions. it would be nice if they had a way to get more of the membership involved in decision making on all levels not just the few that are fortunate enough to be able to afford and have the time off to go to the convention.

One thing that a lot of people don't understand - While you can go to the convention and vote in the committee meetings (i.e., mini committee, classic committee, modern committee, show pony committee, etc.) the votes in those committee meetings are ADVISORY only. Meaning that while a vote might go a particular way -- the vote is to ADVISE the board on action that they would like to see happen.

Those votes are then brought in front of the Board of Directors - who are elected by the membership in the various areas. Those Board of Director members are charged with making decisions that will benefit the industry/membership as a whole, will benefit the organization, are made with an eye to the future. There have been times in the past when a committe votes for a particular action but it is NOT approved by the BOD. Sometimes I've wondered at the logic, but often times those decisions were made because the BOD is looking at the WHOLE picture, not just a tiny segment. They look at it without emotion, but rather with an eye to whether it will help or hurt the industry as a whole. They are charged with the responsibility of becoming familiar with information that the vast majority of us just would rather not pay attention to.

I am VERY confident that this vote was made NOT for the purpose of padding the pockets of the organization. Believe me, raising it to $200 was not necessary for the financial well-being of the organization. ASPC/AMHR is in good financial shape. It was made because some idiots were out there scarfing up every ridiculous word and locking them up because the $20 was a ridiculously LOW amount of money and a few people were extremely frivolous because of that. And by raising it to $200 (yes, it's possible that in committee it was voted to be $100, but the BOD in their meeting might have raised it to $200...which is a GOOD thing) they are nipping the frivolous in the bud.

 

[Lauralee]

I can think of some decisions made in recent years by BOD's that weren't necessarily without personal bias, personal agenda, and weren't made with alot of thought. To me, the decision to allow suffixes was one made without alot of thought because look at the mess it is in now.

I just don't see how a snap knee jerk reaction is the way to go. It might be okay for a temporary fix, while another plan is thought out. But for a long term fix, I disagree with the decision.

And I think that it must be making some people uncomfortable that some of us are expressing our opinions!

However, I don't see that ending anytime soon....

 

[Boinky]

lauralee,

i agree with it being a "short term fix".. i can see where they HAD to do something soon but i agree that from the comment "they had to do something" that alot of fore thought was not put into it. perhaps it was that they felt that something had to be done NOW and then put more thought into it? i would agree iwth that move..but i don't think JUST upping the fee is a very good solution! it will be intresting to see how this all plays out i guess!

 

[kaykay]

just wanted to say i didnt start this post to start any arguments. I was just suprised that what was said was not what was passed. In the other thread it says a couple times that suffix'es were done away with and obviously they werent.

ASPC/AMHR has always been very financially sound so i agree with jean that it wasnt done to get more money.

 

[Aggravation Acres]

Boy am I glad I sent mine off in Oct when I did my permanent papers and stallion reports.

I was really suprized when I got my papers and reply saying I got Aggravation Acres prefix in just 2 weeks. I was not going to put in for it, but when I was at the county fair there was another farm there with the same name. (but they had cows) :bgrin

I guess I got in under the wire with the $20. price. Glad I did not put it off any longer.

Deb

 

[Crabby-Chicken]

[SIZE=14pt] If the $200 was a way to fix the registry from selling the nearly identical name to other farms I am ALL for it. I dealt with this problem. I almost took it to a lawyer. It was completely ridiculous to buy something and be told that someone else can add periods to the name, or an apostrophe and it is good. To me that is not business. Like Walmart, Wal-MART or W.A.L.M.A.R.T. If the $200 means that this registry will actually sell you a prefix and not sell almost the same thing to anyone else I will be happy. I know the other registry can and does do that for $50. Not just a money issue. You have to actually check to see if what you are selling is not already bought.[/SIZE]

I am not making this a fight either. I know that I really feel that I got messed over with the prefix issue. BUT I still do business with both registries and love parts of both. Neither is perfect, but I know they try.

 

[southernmother]

In my opinion, the cost of $200 in of itself is not too high to lay claim on a business name and make it yours (especially if it actually has personal meaning, like mine is my daughters name), but it sucks that someone could just change the spelling or punctuation and copy it anyway. For example, with ours, I can think of a dozen ways to copy that without it being identical. Doesn't really seem like raising the cost, even up to $200 will fix anything. If someone actually wants a name bad enough they're gonna pay the fee regardless of the cost.

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

yes jean I was part of the discussion here on the fourm and YES JEAN i did talk to my area director about this issue several times what on earth does that have to do with the fact that I still while not against the price jump per say am against the fact that the general membership had no time till this took effect?

Even if I was there at convention how would that change the fact that the decision was made on SAT NIGHT and sunday am there was in increase of 10 times the previous amount. How does that change the fact that 90 percent of the membership would have no idea of these increases? to take effect immediately like as of 6 am Sunday

How does that change the fact that like names with slight spelling differences are allowed?

How does that stop someone from purchasing common word suffix's?

To assume that I was aware of convention and didnt go so I have no opinion on anything well sorry but that is LUDICRIOUS

I am well aware of how to get things on the agenda and am also aware that not everyone can drop everything and go to convention that surely doesnt mean that no one has a right to an opinion or to agree or disagree on issues brought up.

I NEVER said that every decision needs input from EVERY member in fact that was NEVER even implied in any of my posts on this subject

Guess it will take some spending 200 bucks to get like names to other farms and perhaps then it will be brought up again since really that is what made it such an important issue in the first place

:

 

[Boinky]

Lisa,

i think she was misreading and thinking my post was you. I said that i felt that there should be proxy voting by mail.. i STILL beleive that. i did NOT say every little thing should be done that way as i do agree it would get things no where... but for major issues, concerns and ect SHOULD be open to ALL members not just a few that can afford to go to the convention or what have you.

Like you the name copying thing is definatly MY biggest concern. i'd never want to pay any amount of money to not have a absolute guarantee that someone else is not going to steal my name....after all..that is the whole point of registering the prefix name!

To me it also depends on how the prefix $200 is going to work. $200 isn't nessarily high but it could be depending on how it's set up. is it a one time fee? do you have to pay $200 every year? every other year? every 2 years? Do you pay the $200 the first time then a reduced price the next time?? THESE are things i'd like to know?

I"ve paid $150 for my kennel name with the dog registry, but they only charge every 3 years and then it's a far reduced price for the consecutive re-registering. I guess my thing is.. how and why should the registry JUMP into something without having their ducks in a row? seems like a good way to HURT the registry if many decisions are made this way. do they know how they want to run this fee schedual?

I know there was some debate as to weather to renew every 10 years or whatever..to me it doesn't sound like they have figured anything out.. though i could certainly be wrong!

 

[Lauralee]

Even so, bear in mind that the voting at the convention is ADVISORY only!!! The BOD can then vote whichever way they choose.

If I as a consumer, THE CUSTOMER, don't speak up and voice my concerns, then I have no say-so.

We all happen to know that directors visit these forums.

And not many of us are able to go to convention JUST to vote in an ADVISORY capacity.

 

[Jean_B]

Even if I was there at convention how would that change the fact that the decision was made on SAT NIGHT and sunday am there was in increase of 10 times the previous amount. How does that change the fact that 90 percent of the membership would have no idea of these increases? to take effect immediately like as of 6 am Sunday

How does that change the fact that like names with slight spelling differences are allowed?

How does that stop someone from purchasing common word suffix's?

OK -- First of all -- the issue went into immediate effect because people were bi--- complaining here on the Forum and in person to their directors about the issue. And because the BOD realized it WAS a legitimate problem. Apparently enough people contacted their BOD members and the BOD felt it was urgent enough that it warranted immediate action.

As to the how and why and wherefore of granting prefixes...I've worked in policy-setting for MANY MANY years (both in a legislative office and as an elected school board member). Before anyone gets their undies all in a bunch about people being able to "rip off" other names by changing the spelling slightly, stop and think about this. So far, all anyone has seen is the new work order which lists the new amount due.

As with any new policy, I am positive that guidelines, policies and procedures are being implemented. Everyone in the home office is well aware of the problems caused by lack of guidelines in the past. I would bet my bottom dollar that they are working hard to come up with prefix rules. Once they are finalized I hope they will post them on their website and print them in THE JOURNAL. And NO NO NO -- guidelines do not require action of the whole board. The Board sets the policy....the administration sets up the procedures in order to comply with the policy.

Until then, let's all simmer down because we have only a small portion of the information and running off in a state of hysteria doesn't solve anything. I'm sure the full picture/guidelines will be out soon! And in the mean time if someone submits a prefix request that doesn't conform, they will be informed of that along with the reason.

 

[Boinky]

well i didn't relise it was just an advisory vote before it was posted..but even so i do think that more things should be voted on BY THE MEMBERSHIP not just the area reps. When major issues arise such as this maybe they should come up with several "solutions" and bring those options to the membership to vote on and see which the membership favors the most. to me this is a pretty major issue..and the fact that they instantly instated it and raised the price by so much only goes to show it IS a major issue/problem that needs to be more thoroughly addressed.

 

[Lewella]

A better solution would have been to limit the amount of prefixes for each individual. Was told they didn't think of that! Hardly fair that many have bought theirs for $20.00 and now everyone else who doesn't have one will have to pay $200.00. Money the only solution?? Mary

Actually they did think of that and it was discussed in several committee meetings. There were several problems pointed out with doing it that way though in the committee meetings at convention (off the top of my head I can think of the following being discused - multiple prefixes in some families - partnerships - breeders who name one *** with a suffix and one with a prefix, etc.).

From what I understand they ASPC/AMHR will be contacting people who have reserved common word suffixes and requesting a release so that the common words like Treasure can go back into use. I got the impression they will be policing the choices a lot more than they used to also. (IMO most of the problem was that no one was policing - they were just taking whatever people submitted).

For those complaining about $200 - I sat in on the Wed. BOD meeting and it was originally suggested during that meeting that the fee be raised to $500. Personally, I would have had no problem as a serious breeder paying $500.

DITTO to Jean B's post - I agree with everything she said 100%!

This change was primarily a BOD change at the suggestion of the home office which this forum send a lot of letters and complaints to about this issue. It was discussed Wed. night in the open BOD meeting and the BOD gave the committee heads a list of questions to ask in the committee meetings to see how everyone felt. They really didn't have to do that - on the recommendation of the chief operating officer they could have decided right then and there to increase the fee. The descision to change the wording in the rule book to accept sound alikes was made in the BOD meeting on Wed. night (at the request of the home office) and was not presented to the committees for discussion.

If notice would have been given everyone would have been reserving everything under the sun just to get it in before the deadline. Would that have fixed the problem? (One of which was people buying prefixes and suffixes and then trying to resell them) Heck no! I think the BOD made the right move in deciding that the increase would be effective immediately.

Boinky - the $200 is a one time fee just like the $20 was.

Lewella

 

[Jean_B]

If everything that an individual thinks warrants voting by the entire membership had to wait for that process...NOTHING would get done. THAT is why it is in your and everyone else's best interest to pay attention to how, when, where area directors are elected. Talk to the candidates, and then make sure that come he-- or high water, you cast your vote for the candidate you think will best represent you and your concerns.

Geez, just think about it - would YOU want to vote on foreign policy matters? That is why you elect members to Congress. It affects you...most definitely it affects you....but 99.9% of the people are NOT well-enough informed to vote on such matters. And I strongly feel the same is true of the vast majority of issues that come before members of the BOD.

 

[Songcatcher]

It seems to me that a lot of us signed a petition asking AMHR to do something about the suffix issue. It appears to me that they HAVE done SOMETHING about it. Maybe not what some of us wanted, but they did something. Am I glad I got my suffix (SR) when I did? Absolutely! However, if they want to make it a policy to drop all reserved suffixes, I will gladly sell mine back to them.

 

[Buckskin gal]

Below are words from a person that was at the convention and tells me that perhaps a whole lot of thought wasn't put into the matter. Surely a simple, inexpensive solution such as first one at a lower cost and the rest at a much higher price would have been a better solution than just raising it ...since AMHR doesn't need the money. Mary

"Did I agree with all the voted on suggestions, no, but I was there and I saw that the majority ruled, and that is how it will be. There may have been a better solution but some of the ones you have brought up were not thought of by those that were there. Personally, I was for this after hearing the discussion and I do not have a registered suffix and would like one. Oh well, too bad for me. Maybe the first one at a lower rate and the rest higher would have been a workable solution but it wasn't presented before the vote."

 

[Lewella]

The BOD did discuss different options and so did the committees. I was there! I was one of a handful of people who sat in on the Wed. BOD open meeting. I was in all the breed committee meetings. Other options were suggested and discussed!

One of the problems that people are overlooking is that the prefix/suffix issue is much broader than has been discussed on this forum and that the BOD has to consider all the aspects of the issue. This wasn't a new BOD agenda item - I think it's been discussed at just about every BOD meeting for the last 3 or 4 years. A lot of thought, research, and consideration went into it even if people don't want to think it did.

 

[Minimor]

I don't think the price hike is unreasonable; of course I'm very glad that I reserved my prefix for the $20 long ago, but if I was just starting now I would say it would be worth it to pay that amount for a prefix. Quite frankly I always did think $20 was ridiculously low.

If prefix/suffix names are now being looked at more closely and some common words or "sounds like" words are being rejected, that is all to the good.

I had assumed that when Rob said there would be no suffixes that he meant that change was coming in the future--maybe I'm wrong but I thought eliminating suffixes would be a rule change, which would take longer to implement? For now they are still available, but once a rule change goes through they will be out?

Ah, people are never happy; they want changes made, then when changes get made they still complain. :lol: I've been on national club boards, and I know it's easy to visualize what you want the end result to be, but when it comes to getting there to that end result, it's not as easy as many think.

I am, however, another that is in favor of proxy voting. I know that members only vote on certain things, and at certain levels, and some member votes can be trumped by a BOD vote, but when it comes to the voting that takes place at the general members' meeting I see no reason why there can't be proxy voting. It works for other breed organizations, and I'm quite sure it would work for ASPC/AMHR too!