Do you know Appaloosa Horses?

[Loren&Rocky]

I did not know this!!

The oral history of the Nez Perce includes a story about the " ghost wind" stallions who were said to be fewspot horses off a russian ship. DNA Testing on the most foundation bred appaloosas indicate a clooser DNA tie to russina horses (in particular the Altai) ( http://www.ansi.okstate.edu/breeds/horses/altai/ )

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_wind_stallions

 

[AppyLover2]

I've never heard of them. Very interesting article. Thanks for posting it.

 

[Shari]

I love history and research....all kinds of neat things open up.

Thanks for sharing that!

 

[miniapp]

When still breeding large Appaloosa horses, I had several mares that traced back to Pharoah through the Patchy's Whistle and Patchy breeding that I had in my broodmares. These mares were true varnished roan mares that between them produced 3 snowcap colts, 2 few spots and 3 near leopards. They were strong color producers and were the type of quality and color that I look for in my miniature breeding program.

Thanks for the articles... it brought back a lot of memories....

:

Suzy Hooper

Show Horses by Suzy

Fresno, CA

 

[runamuk]

I did not know this!!

The oral history of the Nez Perce includes a story about the " ghost wind" stallions who were said to be fewspot horses off a russian ship. DNA Testing on the most foundation bred appaloosas indicate a clooser DNA tie to russina horses (in particular the Altai) ( http://www.ansi.okstate.edu/breeds/horses/altai/ )

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_wind_stallions

Not to burst this dreamy scene BUT

The Nez Percé Indians of America’s northwest made rafts that they used to sail out to the Russian ships to trade with them, seventeenth and eighteenth century Russian coins found in the homelands of many native Americans prove this to be true.

This is pretty far fetched as the Nez Perce were located in eastern washington/Idaho and no where near the coast. The were not a coastal tribe and prior to horse transport the trip to the coast would have been monumental at best.

The ghost wind stallion concept has been being promoted by a small group of appaloosa breeders in an attempt to "get better prices" the something rare theory. The russian connection to the nez perce is a current one as the tribe has brought the akhal teke breed into their breeding program(in the last 10 years) to try and re-create the original appaloosa a hardy rangy small (as in 14.2 hands or less) spotted horse. The ghost wind concept I believe stems from the original few horses that exhibited the extreme few spot pattern and were much sought after for their mystic properties. The nez perce were and are still excellent horsemen and horse breeders but the "facts" in wikipedia sadly can be added or edited by anyone so often are not quite factual.

It is a fun read though thanks.

 

[Loren&Rocky]

True or not, spotted horses came from somewhere and there are no spotted horses in Spanish bloodlines. So there is still a mistry there then I guess. Where did the soptted American horses come from? Not from the conquestadors.

 

[runamuk]

True or not, spotted horses came from somewhere and there are no spotted horses in Spanish bloodlines. So there is still a mistry there then I guess. Where did the soptted American horses come from? Not from the conquestadors.

OK the history of spotted horses often traces back to asia the oldest known paintings of spotted horses are found from china/asia/mongolia............however there are cave paintings depicting what appear to be spotted horses in the area now called france..............the spotting gene is found in many spanish horses but has been supressed by selection due to "our" like or dislike for that color. Spotted horses are found in south america in breeds predominantly spanish based..................spotted horses were popular during varying european era's and then fell out of popularity....the knabstrup was once a very popular breed and it is predominantly leopard however it nearly disappeared and has only recently been brought back using influxes of spotted genes combined with existing stock to re create the type that went with the leopard spots...and even so they still look far more like a modern appaloosa than the old knabstrup depicted in old artwork. The appaloosa has gone through multiple type changes over the years......after most spotted indian ponies were destroyed during the conquering of the native tribes, the few spotted horses used were very much drafty plow types hence the infusion of the arabian to lighten the breed for riding purposes....then along came infusions of q-horse blood which has lead to what many now consider an appaloosa.......the t-bred also has played a major role in the development of the breed that we know today as the appaloosa.

The spotting pattern also occurs, albeit rarely, in shetland ponies...british stock not american....I have spent much time chasing the spotting pattern around the globe and back again and all I have discovered is it is a color pattern that when selected for thrives and when selected against disapppears and cannot be traced with complete certainty to any specific region or equine type as it occurs in all "types" light, draft, pony.

I am not trying to be argumentative but have dedicated alot of time to studying this color pattern and every few years someone else comes out with a new source of all spots

:

I will now go back under my rock and leave the color discussion to those who may know more.

 

[Loren&Rocky]

Thanks for that info. I am far from a horse history expert, but I do know the sabino gene has show up in some modern PRE Andalusians, although Sabino is not an appy pattern. So I guess spots from Spain is not so far fetched. I am so glad this was brought up. I feel smarter already!! Thanks again!! :aktion033:

 

[runamuk]

Thanks for that info. I am far from a horse history expert, but I do know the sabino gene has show up in some modern PRE Andalusians, although Sabino is not an appy pattern. So I guess spots from Spain is not so far fetched. I am so glad this was brought up. I feel smarter already!! Thanks again!! :aktion033:

OK just one more quick tidbit

There is a geneticist who is studying the link between sabino and appaloosa.......she is studying several herds that have alot of snowcaps and few spots, she isn't neccessarily making many friends BUT the research is intriguing as I have always felt there was a link. Since sabino is a pinto pattern it would be forbidden in an appaloosa program by current definitions (pintaloosa) however I cannot wait to see what happens as I do believe it is the missing link so to speak in the snowcaps which in turn produce alot of the loud colors. If this is true it will explain alot.

 

[Loren&Rocky]

Well, check this out!!!!!

http://www.shoc.org/ArticFoxx.html

The sire is a maxium sabino and just check out the little appy looking foals he sired!!!! :new_shocked:

 

[rabbitsfizz]

No NO- NO Spotted Ponies in British Shetlands.

NEVER!!!

I also do not believe the "spotted" pictures in the caves in France depict spotted ponies. I think they depict numbers of kills- easier to mark the picture than draw loads of pictures.

Or possibly a pale Buckskin Dun in winter, or even a Grey, if we are going for the depicting a colour/pattern theory.

Interestingly enough there are, or were, spotted Fjords- there was an historical picture on Equine Color a year or so ago, from the turn of the last century, of a definite spotted Fjord.

Now of course they are all Duns, although Cream is still in there!!

There are no spotted Icelandics- as far as I know- and certainly no spotted Shetlands, nor have there ever been, there have always been small spotted ponies (depending on what you call small!!) but not Shetlands.