Do you know what color these horses are?

[CrescentMinis]

Can anyone help with input on the color of any of these 3 horses?

Trying to find out what color the parents and grandparents of my TOY filly were, in the interest of finding out if she may have any silver dapple close in the line. If there is silver, there may be a connection to an eye condition (ASD) we have been looking into (I have a thread going about this called "Eyes running....").

She is is the reddest chestnut filly I've ever seen, sired by Bond A Toy 4UC (also chestnut).

Anyone familiar with these horses? I googled them and haven't found pictures unfortunately.

- dam (Winner's Circle Valentina)

- granddam must have been some sort of gray: (Boones Little Grey Dawn)

- grandsire (Lil Abner)

Thanks in advance for any info you can provide.

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

I'm no color expert by any stretch, but something I learned when researching one of my mares background was grey can cover anything! When there's a grey horse in the background, especially if it was years ago and no lab testing was performed, there's no telling what color the horse was before the grey set in!

 

[Darkstar]

Winner's Circle Valentina - SCS - solid chestnut

Boones Little Grey Dawn - DCS - Dapple chestnut

Lil Abner - SBK - solid black

Hope this helps.

 

[tagalong]

I would bet that the "dapple chestnut" was a silver bay - or some variation of silver, anyway....

 

[CrescentMinis]

Thank you Darkstar!

That helps a lot. Now I'm guessing those 3-digit "codes" for color might have been in the studbook listings, and i didn't know what I was looking for. OH! I'm learning!

So we probably have a silver granddam.

 

[Becky]

You really can't go the colors listed on the papers in many cases.

I recently acquired a weanling filly who isregistered as a silver bay. Guess what? She's been tested to not carry bay and no silver either. So she is a good old fashioned chestnut with maybe a sooty gene going on to giver her lower legs a smokey appearance. I'm hoping the registries will change her color as requested.

I also just bought a little silver bay mare registered as chestnut as are her sire and dam. None are chestnuts. All are silver bays. I hope to change her color on her papers too.

If in doubt, color test!

 

[Meavey]

I heard it has been proven that silver has nothing to do with the eye problems.

 

[CrescentMinis]

I'm trying to get to the bottom of whether it is OK or not to breed this mare again in the future (this first foal isn't due till May, so there's lots of time to do the research). I want to find out if the eye thing is a genetic condition that is passed on to offspring.

When I next see the vet I will have to get the specific name she called Sofie's unusual eye profile, and get a better explanation of any issues with it. Gotta learn to take notes as we go along or something.

 

[nootka]

Hi,

I know the current listed owner of Valentina, and I know her past owner. I don't remember what color she was, but here is the email address to Maryann Lewis: [email protected]

Hope this helps a little.

Liz

 

[Dona]

I heard it has been proven that silver has nothing to do with the eye problems.

REALLY? Do you have any info on that....I would like to read it. That would be completely contradictory to all of the ASD websites I have saved.

Also would mean they are all outdated if that's true.

 

[runamuk]

I heard it has been proven that silver has nothing to do with the eye problems.

REALLY? Do you have any info on that....I would like to read it. That would be completely contradictory to all of the ASD websites I have saved.

Also would mean they are all outdated if that's true.

Don't toss your links Dona.

ASD is very much associated with the silver dapple gene. What I have read that is interesting is how ASD doesn't always affect the vision as previously suspected. There still is concern because some cases of ASD are severe and lead to cysts etc..........I have a silver dapple out of 2 silver dapples and he definately has all the signs of ASD but so far hasn't been hindered by it at all

he is 15 now.

 

[Meavey]

The researchers who isolated the silver gene and developed the test found NO LINK BETWEEN SILVER AND ASD. It is printed quite plainly in their peer reviewed paper. These independant researchers concluded that ASD in the Rocky Mountain Horse breed is a RMH problem and likely due to a common ancestor (similar to the HYPP problem in the AQHA and APHA).

ASD can happen in any breed and there likely isn't a breed in the world that doesn't have the occassional case of it. Many of these breeds DO NOT have the silver dilution. The Rocky Mountain Horse assn. funded research that "determined" (and I use that term rather loosely) that silver and ASD were caused by the same gene was extremely flawed. The doctor who published the RMH funded research made some blatently false claims including that he had examined an exstict breed of pacer and found it to have ASD (the breed had been exstinct for nearly 100 years.....), that he had examined silver Morgans (this was years prior to silver being documented in Morgans and most of the known silver Morgans have been examined for ASD and found to not have it), and he claimed to have examined Icelandic horses and found silver Icey's with ASD which nearly resulted in an international lawsuit and was a strong motivating factor behind the research that isolated silver.

There were several other procedural flaws in the RMH funded research also. It was in the best interest of the RMH industry to make the public believe that their problem was a problem in other breeds. They are still trying to do this by blatently ignoring the independent research and claiming testing for silver can determine ASD status.

:

: Testing for silver is not a test for ASD - the only test for ASD is an eye exam done by a qualified equine eye specialist.

The simple fact is - there are hundreds of homozygous silver miniatures and hundreds of homozygous silver Shetlands in the US today but only a handful of documented cases of ASD in minis and none in Shetlands. There are also many silver horses in other breeds that have been examined for ASD and found to be ASD free including Morgans, Quarter Horses, Tennessee Walking Horses, Missouri Foxtrotters, American Saddlebreds, Icelandic, and American Mustangs.

 

[Becky]

Wow! That's very interesting! I, too, have always heard that ASD in miniatures is directly related to the silver gene. I, personally, have only seen it in silver horses although I recently heard of a grey horse that appears to have it.

I would love to hear if there are non silver miniatures that have this problem.

 

[Dona]

Wow! That's very interesting! I, too, have always heard that ASD in miniatures is directly related to the silver gene. I, personally, have only seen it in silver horses although I recently heard of a grey horse that appears to have it.

I would love to hear if there are non silver miniatures that have this problem.

Well....I wonder if that "Gray" horse was a "Silver" before it grayed out?

The researchers who isolated the silver gene and developed the test found NO LINK BETWEEN SILVER AND ASD. It is printed quite plainly in their peer reviewed paper. These independant researchers concluded that ASD in the Rocky Mountain Horse breed is a RMH problem and likely due to a common ancestor (similar to the HYPP problem in the AQHA and APHA).

ASD can happen in any breed and there likely isn't a breed in the world that doesn't have the occassional case of it. Many of these breeds DO NOT have the silver dilution. The Rocky Mountain Horse assn. funded research that "determined" (and I use that term rather loosely) that silver and ASD were caused by the same gene was extremely flawed. The doctor who published the RMH funded research made some blatently false claims including that he had examined an exstict breed of pacer and found it to have ASD (the breed had been exstinct for nearly 100 years.....), that he had examined silver Morgans (this was years prior to silver being documented in Morgans and most of the known silver Morgans have been examined for ASD and found to not have it), and he claimed to have examined Icelandic horses and found silver Icey's with ASD which nearly resulted in an international lawsuit and was a strong motivating factor behind the research that isolated silver.

There were several other procedural flaws in the RMH funded research also. It was in the best interest of the RMH industry to make the public believe that their problem was a problem in other breeds. They are still trying to do this by blatently ignoring the independent research and claiming testing for silver can determine ASD status.

:

: Testing for silver is not a test for ASD - the only test for ASD is an eye exam done by a qualified equine eye specialist.

The simple fact is - there are hundreds of homozygous silver miniatures and hundreds of homozygous silver Shetlands in the US today but only a handful of documented cases of ASD in minis and none in Shetlands. There are also many silver horses in other breeds that have been examined for ASD and found to be ASD free including Morgans, Quarter Horses, Tennessee Walking Horses, Missouri Foxtrotters, American Saddlebreds, Icelandic, and American Mustangs.

Very interesting! There is so much contradictory information on ASD out there....what do you believe? Is there a site somewhere, where we can go read more about this?