Gastric Ulcers / Hind Gut acidosis

[katmac117]

Hey everybody, bare with me, this is going to be long.
I'm looking for help or suggestions with my little mare, she is extremely well bred and is my dream horse.
This past summer I purchased her and she travelled 12 hours to me, and within a month she had ulcers and had to spend 4 days at a vet college, after a month of gastro guard, misoprostol and sucralfate and a ton of money. She was fully cleared.
The vet chalked it up to travel/new environment/herd mate.
After a couple months being clear, she started acting weird again. I went to my regular vet and got omeprazole and sucralfate. And it's been almost 4 months since then. Every time she come off the sucralfate it starts all over again, and she'll get ventral edema before her teats, and be super sensitive that she'll sometimes kick out or try to bite you if you touch that area, and stomp her feet/swish her tail before pooping. I had my vet out a couple weeks ago again, and we did bloodwork, everything came back perfect, heart sounded great.
My vet took one look at my feeding program and said it's 100% geared towards a horse for ulcers and it doesn't make sense as to why she is acting like this. And just told me to keep feeding way I am and the meds again.
But its been 4 months.

She's out with my gelding. Which may be part of the problem, he likes to play and she doesn't want any of his crap, but when she first came they were best friends, grooming each other etc.
I can't separate them right now, due to too much snow to put a fence up. They come inside at night, in which she jogs to her stall as she loves coming in.
I notice she likes to lay down a fair bit during the evening/night.

Anyways here is what she is currently getting morning and night:
1 Cup Soaked Beet Pulp
1 Cup Soaked Alfalfa Cubes
2 tsp of Madbarn Omenity Premix (vitamins & minerals)
1 Tsp Madbarn w-3 oil (high in omega)
And literally free choice hay during the day, and at night she has a hay bag and some loose hay in the stall too, and I go out before bed to make sure she still has plenty of hay.

She likes to waste hay like crazy too, some of it is stemmy which is part of the reason. I notice she does better on finer, leafy hay. But in our area no one has anything like that.

She's still on maintained dose of omeprazole, her sucralfate ran out on Monday, and her symptoms are already back.

I just started her on Lilly of the dessert aloe vera gel, I noticed after only giving her a small amount of 3cc the past two days that her poo's are already starting to get runny again.
I purchased probiotics in the fall, and it just made her have the shits and did nothing for her. So I had to take her off that.
I just purchased gut coat as well, I haven't tried it yet, was waiting to see what the aloe vera did for her first.

Does anyone have any suggestions or any experience with these issues ?
I'm starting to run out of options other then medications.
And the worst part is, my regular vet has decided to get out of equine, so now I have no vet. No medications. And all the other vets in the area aren't taking any more clients. The only option is to drive her to a vet college, and I cannot afford it as she has already cost me double what I paid.
She was suppose to be my next driving horse, along with be a broodmare down the line. I've never had a issue with any of my horses before, and I even have a Diploma in Equine Studies/Sciences.

Sincerely a very exhausted owner.

 

[Crimson Rose]

I have nothing to add to what you have already tried, but I definitely feel for you and will be praying for you and your mare

 

[Standards Equine]

I understand Biosponge is very useful in getting loose bowels back to consistent and we've put our animals through zeolite detox for persistent parasite and heavy metal toxicity.
Aside from relocating her to a place where she's possibly the only horse, I also have no other suggestion. You're doing everything I would suggest to do in my own program. I wonder if there isn't an underlying something else happening that's causing her discomfort. It's so hard to know.

Sending healing energy your way!!

 

[LostandFound]

I would expect if you call your vet they will be willing to fill you a prescription that you can order online at least once more. One of the things that may help you is to be aware that omeprazole has some sort of rebound effect when you go off, which is worse than what started you on it. Not sure about the other med, but it may help to try weaning her slowly off it next time instead of just stopping it. You can also try Outlast, which is a supplement that's supposed to help with things like that. My horses all liked it and I used it as a treat for getting on the trailer and at shows.

 

[HersheyMint]

Hey everybody, bare with me, this is going to be long.
I'm looking for help or suggestions with my little mare, she is extremely well bred and is my dream horse.
This past summer I purchased her and she travelled 12 hours to me, and within a month she had ulcers and had to spend 4 days at a vet college, after a month of gastro guard, misoprostol and sucralfate and a ton of money. She was fully cleared.
The vet chalked it up to travel/new environment/herd mate.
After a couple months being clear, she started acting weird again. I went to my regular vet and got omeprazole and sucralfate. And it's been almost 4 months since then. Every time she come off the sucralfate it starts all over again, and she'll get ventral edema before her teats, and be super sensitive that she'll sometimes kick out or try to bite you if you touch that area, and stomp her feet/swish her tail before pooping. I had my vet out a couple weeks ago again, and we did bloodwork, everything came back perfect, heart sounded great.
My vet took one look at my feeding program and said it's 100% geared towards a horse for ulcers and it doesn't make sense as to why she is acting like this. And just told me to keep feeding way I am and the meds again.
But its been 4 months.

She's out with my gelding. Which may be part of the problem, he likes to play and she doesn't want any of his crap, but when she first came they were best friends, grooming each other etc.
I can't separate them right now, due to too much snow to put a fence up. They come inside at night, in which she jogs to her stall as she loves coming in.
I notice she likes to lay down a fair bit during the evening/night.

Anyways here is what she is currently getting morning and night:
1 Cup Soaked Beet Pulp
1 Cup Soaked Alfalfa Cubes
2 tsp of Madbarn Omenity Premix (vitamins & minerals)
1 Tsp Madbarn w-3 oil (high in omega)
And literally free choice hay during the day, and at night she has a hay bag and some loose hay in the stall too, and I go out before bed to make sure she still has plenty of hay.

She likes to waste hay like crazy too, some of it is stemmy which is part of the reason. I notice she does better on finer, leafy hay. But in our area no one has anything like that.

She's still on maintained dose of omeprazole, her sucralfate ran out on Monday, and her symptoms are already back.

I just started her on Lilly of the dessert aloe vera gel, I noticed after only giving her a small amount of 3cc the past two days that her poo's are already starting to get runny again.
I purchased probiotics in the fall, and it just made her have the shits and did nothing for her. So I had to take her off that.
I just purchased gut coat as well, I haven't tried it yet, was waiting to see what the aloe vera did for her first.

Does anyone have any suggestions or any experience with these issues ?
I'm starting to run out of options other then medications.
And the worst part is, my regular vet has decided to get out of equine, so now I have no vet. No medications. And all the other vets in the area aren't taking any more clients. The only option is to drive her to a vet college, and I cannot afford it as she has already cost me double what I paid.
She was suppose to be my next driving horse, along with be a broodmare down the line. I've never had a issue with any of my horses before, and I even have a Diploma in Equine Studies/Sciences.

Sincerely a very exhausted owner.

Oh I feel for you. You are trying your best and with the vet not working, it is so scary. I have nothing to offer but I'm hoping someone here can help. I wish hugs would help I can offer those

 

[Cayuse]

Succeed or Benegest-pro might help. They are the same thing and support the hind gut. Benegest is a lot cheaper. And like Standard Equine suggested, Biosponge will firm up loose manure really well, it's not a cure but a stop-gap while other treatments work. I've used both on two different minis with digestive complaints. FWIW I tried plain old probiotics on one of mine (probios I think) and it made him worse, too.
Since she is better on finer hay, have you tried chopped hay like Totally Timothy or something similar? I think I read somewhere that chopped forage is easier to digest.

 

[Marsha Cassada]

Have you tried taking her of everything and just doing hay? Laying down may mean some slight laminitis. Does she get salt? Do her former owners have any comments? So sorry for you dealing with this.

 

[Abby P]

Or on the flip side - if stemmy hay is a problem, try increasing the hay pellets (or adding soaked hay cubes) and reducing the hay. I would suggest going to Chronicle of the Horse and reading these threads:

https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/forum/discussion-forums/horse-care/9650940-esomeprazole-nexium-for-equine-ulcers

https://forum.chronofhorse.com/t/fecal-water-syndrome-stemmy-hay-laminitis-risk/770873
Lots of different things people have tried for both ulcers and FWS. I have some experience with FWS caused by stemmy hay and feeding psyllium did help my horse, it got him cleared up and then as long as I avoid feeding stemmy hay he stays clear. I think the psyllium just soothes some of the irritation from the stemmy hay, it doesn't fix the problem.

 

[katmac117]

I would expect if you call your vet they will be willing to fill you a prescription that you can order online at least once more. One of the things that may help you is to be aware that omeprazole has some sort of rebound effect when you go off, which is worse than what started you on it. Not sure about the other med, but it may help to try weaning her slowly off it next time instead of just stopping it. You can also try Outlast, which is a supplement that's supposed to help with things like that. My horses all liked it and I used it as a treat for getting on the trailer and at shows.

I was able to get more sucralfate today thankfully. Unfortunately in Canada we cannot order any online, so it has to be another clinic to get it. Which I found out no one else is accepting anymore clients anymore.
We also cannot get outlast in Canada either

We completely took her off omeprazole before and she was fine.
It’s soon as you take her off sucralfate issues start.
I talked to my vet and he wants me to keep her on maintenance dose of omeprazole anyways. And keep on sucralfate as it seems soothes her hind gut and won’t do any damage to her. As that’s always seems to be the issue.
I’ve weaned her off it before and stopped cold turkey before. It doesn’t make a difference. As sucralfate only stays in the system for 6-8 hours anyways and only costs the stomach and gut. Even at maintenance dose of sucralfate she would show signs.

 

[katmac117]

Or on the flip side - if stemmy hay is a problem, try increasing the hay pellets (or adding soaked hay cubes) and reducing the hay. I would suggest going to Chronicle of the Horse and reading these threads:

Chronicle Forums

https://forum.chronofhorse.com/t/fecal-water-syndrome-stemmy-hay-laminitis-risk/770873
Lots of different things people have tried for both ulcers and FWS. I have some experience with FWS caused by stemmy hay and feeding psyllium did help my horse, it got him cleared up and then as long as I avoid feeding stemmy hay he stays clear. I think the psyllium just soothes some of the irritation from the stemmy hay, it doesn't fix the problem.

I’ve tried to reduce hay, and feed more fibre through beet pulp and alfalfa cubes but as a result she started getting aggressive about hay in pasture. And that just causes more stress situations for everyone involved. And I cannot separate in pasture at this time or I would attempt to do it that way.

 

[katmac117]

Have you tried taking her of everything and just doing hay? Laying down may mean some slight laminitis. Does she get salt? Do her former owners have any comments? So sorry for you dealing with this.

She never had issue with previous owners.
It’s not laminitis, I had both farrier and vet look and neither were concerned in that way. She’s basically show fit, without any conditioning.
She doesn’t lay down outside right now due to all the snow, she hates being weight, so she only lays at night in her stall when she’s relaxed.
She has access to salt.
I tried just hay, but she loses weight fairly quick without extra food.

 

[katmac117]

Succeed or Benegest-pro might help. They are the same thing and support the hind gut. Benegest is a lot cheaper. And like Standard Equine suggested, Biosponge will firm up loose manure really well, it's not a cure but a stop-gap while other treatments work. I've used both on two different minis with digestive complaints. FWIW I tried plain old probiotics on one of mine (probios I think) and it made him worse, too.
Since she is better on finer hay, have you tried chopped hay like Totally Timothy or something similar? I think I read somewhere that chopped forage is easier to digest.

She’s getting timothy square bales. With soaked alfalfa cubes.
I’ve heard of succeed it’s just too expensive at the moment, and haven’t heard of the other.

 

[MaryFlora]

I’m sorry katmac. You must be ready to pull your hair out by now. The loss of a vet is a blow. Reducing her to one feed, however, such as Marsha suggested and then stepping back and giving nature time makes sense. Speaking for myself, I forget often the importance of time and just waiting and letting be, until something happens to remind me.

If you can’t access any pain relief from a vet or online, human aspirin can be used but that is probably not a good idea in her case. I do not know how to post the link, but “The Horse” has an interesting online article on the helpfulness of acetaminophen in horses. The article is titled, “Inexpensive pain drug gets boost for treating horses”. February 22, 2022.

 

[Carrie Wind]

Could this issue be colitis?

 

[Carrie Wind]

We had a mini w/ colitis. It was recommended by the university animal hospital that she go on Assure Guard Gold, SuperSport (for added protein) and ProElite Senior grain. Also Tylenol was prescribed for any upsets, NO bute as that was what was believed to have caused the initial problem. The good news is this mini is now back to normal and eats the same grain, hay as everyone else. It took a good 8 months though!

 

[jandjcaptein]

Hey everybody, bare with me, this is going to be long.
I'm looking for help or suggestions with my little mare, she is extremely well bred and is my dream horse.
This past summer I purchased her and she travelled 12 hours to me, and within a month she had ulcers and had to spend 4 days at a vet college, after a month of gastro guard, misoprostol and sucralfate and a ton of money. She was fully cleared.
The vet chalked it up to travel/new environment/herd mate.
After a couple months being clear, she started acting weird again. I went to my regular vet and got omeprazole and sucralfate. And it's been almost 4 months since then. Every time she come off the sucralfate it starts all over again, and she'll get ventral edema before her teats, and be super sensitive that she'll sometimes kick out or try to bite you if you touch that area, and stomp her feet/swish her tail before pooping. I had my vet out a couple weeks ago again, and we did bloodwork, everything came back perfect, heart sounded great.
My vet took one look at my feeding program and said it's 100% geared towards a horse for ulcers and it doesn't make sense as to why she is acting like this. And just told me to keep feeding way I am and the meds again.
But its been 4 months.

She's out with my gelding. Which may be part of the problem, he likes to play and she doesn't want any of his crap, but when she first came they were best friends, grooming each other etc.
I can't separate them right now, due to too much snow to put a fence up. They come inside at night, in which she jogs to her stall as she loves coming in.
I notice she likes to lay down a fair bit during the evening/night.

Anyways here is what she is currently getting morning and night:
1 Cup Soaked Beet Pulp
1 Cup Soaked Alfalfa Cubes
2 tsp of Madbarn Omenity Premix (vitamins & minerals)
1 Tsp Madbarn w-3 oil (high in omega)
And literally free choice hay during the day, and at night she has a hay bag and some loose hay in the stall too, and I go out before bed to make sure she still has plenty of hay.

She likes to waste hay like crazy too, some of it is stemmy which is part of the reason. I notice she does better on finer, leafy hay. But in our area no one has anything like that.

She's still on maintained dose of omeprazole, her sucralfate ran out on Monday, and her symptoms are already back.

I just started her on Lilly of the dessert aloe vera gel, I noticed after only giving her a small amount of 3cc the past two days that her poo's are already starting to get runny again.
I purchased probiotics in the fall, and it just made her have the shits and did nothing for her. So I had to take her off that.
I just purchased gut coat as well, I haven't tried it yet, was waiting to see what the aloe vera did for her first.

Does anyone have any suggestions or any experience with these issues ?
I'm starting to run out of options other then medications.
And the worst part is, my regular vet has decided to get out of equine, so now I have no vet. No medications. And all the other vets in the area aren't taking any more clients. The only option is to drive her to a vet college, and I cannot afford it as she has already cost me double what I paid.
She was suppose to be my next driving horse, along with be a broodmare down the line. I've never had a issue with any of my horses before, and I even have a Diploma in Equine Studies/Sciences.

Sincerely a very exhausted owner.

My vet told me to make sure she eats predominantly grass hay to avoid a reoccurrence with the ulcer. My mare throws hay around also and will wait for me to give her the supplement instead of eating more hay. I hold off when I notice this for an hour or two to get her to consume more hay (soaked hay to remove sugar) She also has metabolic problems. I feed Nutrena Safe choice, special diet with a digestive shield and probiotics in it. So far it has worked great!

 

[jandjcaptein]

She eats soaked Orchard grass. I soak it one hour and drain to remove the sugars. Not saying yours needs this but wanted to give you the details.