Horse who bolts on lead, how to resolve this?

[mydaddysjag]

I've been working Midas every other day, since where he is currently boarded he doesn't have turn out, and with it getting cold here, hes been being spunky and forgetful of his manners. He's been getting very excitable, and will almost drag be from his stall into the indoor arena (his stall is across from the arena, where I free lunge it) before I can get the gate shut and the lead unhooked he is ready to take off, and the other day he actually reared up at me. I've always had big horses, and Im careful when I turn the out, facing them towards me to help prevent being kicked, etc. Well, I almost got kicked the other day by Midas. I always step back fast after I unhook him, so i'm not in his foot path. Well, the other day he spun around so fast and kicked up that he came within 2" of kicking me. I was so close that I was able to give him a quick smack on the butt, but this isn't expectable, I know I need to be working with him on WHOA more, i've been trying to take him back to the basics, but I'm trying to reduce my chances of getting hurt while he relearns his manners.

I know if he were a big horse I would use a stud chain under his chin and clip it onto the other side of his halter, and probably carry a short crop to smack him on the butt if he tried to kick out, but im pretty sure I can't put a stud chain on a mini.

Any input on the safest way to correct this behavior?

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

im pretty sure I can't put a stud chain on a mini.

Yes you most certainly can. That will not fix the cause of the problem tho which I think is that he is not getting enough excersize and then is being turned out to play while you dodge his flying feet. I would use a stud chain to help him remember that he must walk like a gentleman then I'd ask for some 'work' before play time. When you enter the arena don't just turn him loose, ask him to back up, step over, pivot and stand and then release him. Don't do the same maneuvers each time so he can't anticipate when he'll be released. If he is still acting silly when he thinks the lead is off then you can use 2 leads for a while and unhook one at a time so you can 'remind' him again to stand until you leave him. Just my thoughts.

 

[disneyhorse]

Yep, stud chains and crops are just fine with minis, particularly disrespectful ones. Of course, you won't need to apply as much pressure as the animal IS smaller!

Nip the behavior in the bud as soon as possible to discourage the habit, be consistent and fair.

Good luck,

Andrea

 

[mydaddysjag]

Can I just use a regular horse size stud chain, or do I need to order a mini sized.

I have a few big horse leads with the chains on them, used to use them to practice showmanship, and when I had a 16.3 hand gelding who had some manners issues when I got him

 

[Carolyn R]

If you are in a bind, a small choke chain for a dog will work. It will probably need to be 20-22", and you may have to crimp the rings slightly with plyers so they fit through the halter rings.

While you don't need as much force, you do need to treat a mini just like a big horse when it comes to diciplin. If you ever hear people talk about minis (or those small ponies as they call them) and say what horrid, ill tempered little creatures they are, my guess is whomever owned the critter they are so fondly talking about, treated it like a dog rather than a horse. I completely agree, he wants to play and exercise, but he is testing you.

Carolyn

 

[Sue_C.]

where he is currently boarded he doesn't have turn out,

To me...this is what must be addressed first and foremost.

Why can you not simply turn him out for the first while before you expect him to behave? A good run around is what he needs. To stand around in a stall for hours and days on end, with only a few minutes on the end of a lead, or being "free-lunged", (to him...means being chased with a stick) and being threatened with jerks from a chain...is just not conducive to a sound, or healthy, mental attitude.

Is there no way for him to get SOME turn-out?

 

[Jill]

Yes to the stud chain, but I think he really needs some kind of turn out time. He's probably just got so much pent up energy and wants time to "be a horse".

 

[Annabellarose]

where he is currently boarded he doesn't have turn out,

To me...this is what must be addressed first and foremost.

Why can you not simply turn him out for the first while before you expect him to behave? A good run around is what he needs. To stand around in a stall for hours and days on end, with only a few minutes on the end of a lead, or being "free-lunged", (to him...means being chased with a stick) and being threatened with jerks from a chain...is just not conducive to a sound, or healthy, mental attitude.

Is there no way for him to get SOME turn-out?

I couldn't agree with Sue_C. more! Is there anyway possible that you or your spouse or a relative or a friend could get out there everyday to give him some turn-out time? He needs time to be a horse! To play! If his only "turn out" time is being used to train him as well, his life kind of sucks right now.

Is there anyway that you could turn him out, let him blow off steam, then just take him for a long walk away from the stable? Make him mind, but have days where you aren't training him or asking him to do anything for you but be your friend.

 

[Shortpig]

I agree with Sue C also but my question is, "do you always lead him straight from stall across to the arena?" Maybe you could take him from stall and walk the other way asking him to be well mannered for a short time. It becomes a habit with boarded horses in this situation to go from stall direct to freedom and nothing in between. Treats, hugs and loving prior to freedom. Change it each time. Even then he should have to stand quietly while you remove the lead rope. This is becoming a habit for the horse that needs to be broken quick. Others might disagree with me on this suggestion but keep a treat in your hand, let him know you have it but do not give it till he is free and behaves then give him the treat. Now he is thinking treat not running, bucking and playing if for only 10 seconds. I don't click so well so I always use two words with little Koda, Good Boy! then he gets the treat. Also don't always release the horse at the same spot in front of the gate.

Good luck with him, my horses were boarded off and on for years and I had one that was always more excited about the concept of freedom and running. Had to use some different tricks to keep from being hurt during their play. They don't really mean to kick you or hurt you just too much excitement to handle at that moment.

 

[mydaddysjag]

I do agree he needs turnout, and we are currently arranging to build a small shelter for him in the spring so I can bring him home. He wont have huge pastures, but he will have a paddock and a turnout area. I do agree he is excited and that is why he is plowing through people to get into the arena. I don't immediately make him go to work when he's being free lunged, even if he is just turned out in the indoor arena while stalls are being cleaned. I do want to mention that he does seems aggressive when doing this, he pins his ears, and occasionally gets the nerve to haul off and bite whoever is leading him. The other day when he was exercising himself in the arena (no whip involved) he went off his path and literally tried to run my husband over. He'll pin his ears while free lunging and kick both hind feet up at you. I know in the long run what he needs is more repetition, and more stern discipline, i'm just pretty sure i (or whomever else is handling him) is going to get hurt in the process, and Im trying to reduce the chance of that.

I feel pretty horrible about this, as I've never let him get away with much, however due to illness, moving twice, my fiance being very ill, and losing my job I hadn't been seeing him as much as needed. I had a place to board him close to my old house lined up that had pasture, but in the long run it didn't work out.

 

[txminipinto]

The problem with free lunging is that you have no control over the horse(yes, some horses can be controled off line but only those that want to be controled). You can not immediately correct bad behavior. By putting him on a line and controlling his direction and speed, you can also control any unwanted behavior (ear pinning, kicking out, bolting away from you, etc). I lunge with a chain, mainly to keep from being dragged, but also as an aid. It's fine to "free lunge" with a horse that doesn't have any vices, but it sounds like your boy needs to learn a little respect first.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I'm really not at all surprised he is acting like this, I am only surprised he has not done it sooner.

I'm sorry but I would not even entertain having a horse with no turnout, it just seems crazy.

OK, that's said, you have the problem and, whilst you have absolutely NO right to chastise him for doing things that are completely understandable, you do have to get some sort of sense out of him, and, of course, you do have to protect yourself.

It is unusual for a horse to vent it's aggression deliberately on a human, you obviously, and regrettably given the circumstances, have an intelligent horse, there!!

I once kept a young stallion (a riding horse) under similar circumstances because I though he would be better off where I could work with him every day.

I lasted a month before I sent him home and turned him out for the winter, and his manners changed overnight.

Once he was out, being a boy and being left alone, he changed back to the sweetie he had always been.

You need to find somewhere else to keep your horse, and then you will not have a problem anymore.

 

[disneyhorse]

When some of you condemn "stalling a horse with no turnout" what exactly do you mean? I have had "stalled horses with no turnout" pretty much ALL of my life, and I don't feel like I have neglected my horses or mentally abused them because they couldn't get daily turnout.

My horses live in stalls in a city, and if I go away on vacation for a week they stay in that stall. The stalls are cleaned twice daily and always have bedding.

Now, I happen to feel VERY guilty if I can't drive down to see my horses and take them out of their stalls at least once a day! So, even if they are turned loose to play for FIVE MINUTES while I clean their stall out and prepare their grain, I at least feel that is adequate.

I do like to have somewhat fit horses, so my horses typically get taken out of the stall and worked at a trot for about fifteen minutes a day. Sometimes it's free lunging, sometimes lunging on a line, ground driving, or a walk around the block. However, the longest they are out of their stall is as long as they are worked, so it is very very rarely more than an hour.

So no, I don't consider my place "with turnout" because they are only "out" of their stalls while I am there to supervise. Other boarders need to use the arena and at the different places I have boarded, there are usually about six horses to an acre which includes the arena space and someone's house! So you see the circumstances some of us live in!

I say the horse is in need of some manners, no matter WHAT the circumstance the horse needs to LISTEN to the handler! I don't care if it's been stalled for a month, it still needs manners. Some horses are laid up due to injury in excess of a year... and that horse still needs to behave when taken out to be hand walked.

Just my opinion, of course!

Andrea

 

[txminipinto]

Back in to back up Andrea. I too agree that he needs MANNERS. Horses can live in stalls with limited turnout without turning into spawns of satans. Most of the show horses in my barn are stall kept, worked every other day from 10-45 minutes, and with very limited turnout....stallions included. All are very mentally healthy. His acting out may be due to pent up energy, I do have a couple horses that get harder to handle the longer they've been couped up in a stall but work out of it with excercise. But if the weather is bad, the ground is muddy, or I'm on the road and they stayed behind they are still expected to behave if they hadn't been worked in a couple days. A firm hand is needed here is all.

 

[jleonard]

I agree that there is nothing wrong with keeping a horse stalled, sometimes there is no other option. When we lived in California, the farm I worked at and got my minis from kept two horses in a 12x12 stall divided in half. The minis never got turn out, occasionally a few of the big horses were put in small paddocks for an hour or so. Because they were kept up all the time, every horse in the barn was either ridden or lunged everyday. We would take the minis into the round pen and free lunge, usually with sweats, for about 15 minutes. They would then be hosed off and put on the hot-walker for about half an hour. All of the horses were well mannered. However, when I got my second mini, she had nit had anything done with her in months. She had been in a 12x24 pen, and the only time she had any contact w/ people was when they would put a stallion in with her. When I picked her up, she literally drug me around, she was so strong that I had to let her drag me to the round pen and lunge her for at least half an hour before I could put her on the trailer. Once we got her home, she still didn't have any more room, but we would take long walks every night, and she quickly learned to behave herself. I used a chain in the beginning until she began to respect me, and have not had a problem since. Now that I think about it, I had similar problems with my first mare too, only she would just rear on the lead, out of excitement and pent up energy. I think that if they are going to be stalled, they just need more work, and they cannot be allowed to get away with bad manners. You can use a chain, or what I've done in a pinch is just put the lead over their nose, it will get their attention a little better then just a halter. I agree with the other who've said to mix up the routine. Take him for walks if you can, we used to just go around the block. walks are fun because they keep things interesting. Do more work on the lead in the ring, then let him loose once he is listening and working well as a reward. Lunging on a line is also good since he will still get the exercise while still having to listen and behave.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

There is an option.

If you do not have the facilities you do not have the horse!

A horse is not a cage animal.

Nor is it a right, it is a luxury.

Would you keep a dog in a crate???

Sorry, since this is the 'net, and there is no voice modification or facial expression, this all comes over very harsh, I know, but a horse is a grazing, herd animal.

Keeping a horse stalled, with no access to turnout just is not acceptable, not to me.

I realise "Racehorses do it"....the RSPCA is right now working on a charter for horses and, when (not if) it is implemented it will send the horse industry in this country for a loop.

This colt is acting up because he is still a colt and because he is not being kept in circumstances that suit him.

There are horses, I have had them, who would think they had died and gone to heaven if they were given his life style but they were in their teens and always had access to outside, they preferred to stay in, this is different.

Try staying in one room all day, when you don't want to, even though you are well fed etc.

There is a reason prisoners go "stirr crazy" you know, and that is what this colt is doing.

Although the immediate need is to get him under control, it is NOT "to teach him manners" I am pretty sure he already has them, he is just trying to tell his owner something that, because she feels helpless to supply it, she does not wish to hear!!!

So she is sticking wadding in her ears and he is shouting louder.

This is a recipe for disaster.

Start using force and he will sour faster than milk on a hot day.

He needs to get OUT.

 

[HGFarm]

I agree, he needs a 'job' or room to run more often, etc... and it should be daily. He is making this a habit and YES to the stud chain!!

He also needs to learn to stand while you unclip the lead for him to go play- no spinning and kicking even when it is unclipped. That is showing he has no respect for people, especially if he purposely tried to run over your husband.

How about if he goes to a grooming area first, then gets turned out.... or something to vary his schedule. Take him to the gate of the turn out after grooming and wait a couple of minutes- just hang out and stand at the gate, before taking him in. Do something different so he is not bulldozing from the pen to the arena.

I know someone here whose horses are raised in small stalls and NEVER get turned out. She complains that she can't control them to even get them there- it is right outside her closed in barn where they live day in and day out. Pretty sad- they dont even have windows to see out. Babies from there have taken months to learn how to play and even run- really. They dont know how and are sore because they do not use any muscles at all. They freaked out when they were turned out at another farm with big acre runs.

I think your horse is frustrated at being locked in first of all, and does not get out enough, but he doesnt have any respect for anybody either.

 

[mydaddysjag]

My reply may sound a little harsh, however due to some of the replies I have received I kind of feel it is necessary to defend myself.

As far as it being such a bad life to keep Midas stalled and only turn him out in an indoor arena, well, I would like to have him turned out outside too, but that wont be happening until spring when the ground isn't froze and we can build him a shelter and set posts for fence. I don't feel that I am doing him a great injustice in his current situation, when he is turned out it is in a approximately 80'x120' sand footed arena. Midas is not my first horse by any means, however he is my first miniature. I have had plenty of horses boarded at this barn, and none have gotten lack of manners because they are not turned out. Midas is a coming 3 year old gelding, so I figure its time to crack down and make him start listening.

I have had Midas since he was about 6 months old, and he has always been at this barn, never had the manners he currently has. Like stated before I do blame myself, as I have not been able to work with him as much as I would like this year due to a LOT of life changes and serious illness on my husbands part.

However I do think it was unnecessary to imply that since i do not have my own facilities with turnout that I should give up my horse.

Even if I were ever to fathom selling, or giving away Midas who would take a three year old gelding who is only trained in halter (but grew up not built to show halter) Who's behavior is what Midas currently is? Im pretty sure with the current market, no one would take in a horse like Midas. So I guess that would leave me with another option, I could surrender him to a horse rescue, since they are so overloaded with horses who actually need to be in a rescue because they are sick, old, skinny, or have no place to live, I doubt they would mind taking on my 3 year old gelding in perfect health who is an easy keeper and I can afford to keep. You can see why this is not an option. Heck I don't even have to factor in the fact that I love my horse dearly(being a snot and all).

As far as this being his cry for help and me not listening, I am in the process of making the plans for his small barn that will be built in the spring and planning the best way to build his paddock and pasture. I can't see how this is ignoring his cries since I am selling another horse, (whom im actually more attached to) so that I can afford to build a barn for him, along with a paddock and small pasture, and hopefully get him a friend, since horses are herd animals and I wouldn't want him to be alone.

 

[jbrat]

I would make him respect you! chain if needed, but let him run and " feel his oats"for a few minutes while you clean the stall and then move onto grooming or training. If you groom first he'll just go roll, anyway, lol.

Let him run off some steam before you expect him to stand quiet to be groomed or what ever. Then your not just fighting with him, esp. if you know he just needs to take a few wild horsey laps on his own. Then when you come back to him he should be calmer and ready to be more attentive.

BUT He does need to respect you at all times, just don't fight him to long when you know he needs a run, make him walk politely to the ring, then let him loose to buck, fart and roll.

I like the 2 leadrope idea, to keep him from spinning and kicking out, teach him the patience then you can go! And glad you got a good smack in the first time he did it take a crop or whip and get him if he even thinks about kicking anywhere near you.

Be careful and good luck you' ve been given alot of good idea's combine what you feel is best for both of you and always stay the boss mare!

You were typing as I was replying and I want to say that I understand what you are saying and I agree! Sometimes we'll all have to do the best we can with what we have available, And you are planning on making the best arrangement possible - where you have him with you, you'll love it and I bet he'll get better too he's young and wants to be like most little boys.

Atleast your spending time with him, Some people I know who board rarely spend much quality time with the horses, thats what they pay board for~ Some People NO flames please, I don't know other forum members situations!

 

[tinypony]

Hopefully this helps, or at least encourages you with your little gelding. Our little guy has recently began acting EXACTLY like your gelding. The difference: he's outdoors full time, tons of daily attention, and plenty of toys and playmates. So this tells me that your indoor situation isn't likely the cause, just his very smart little brain. My tiny man used to be the gentlest 29" horse in the world, even tiny children could handle him. He used to sit in laps, cuddle, play, and behave. Our guy now is rearing, striking, biting, bolting, and otherwise being a turd since the weather has chilled. What we have done: started him over. Stud chain, manners, lead lines, varying his training routine, using a gentle tap with his training whip when he strikes, tons of praise for jobs well done, and attempted to keep him even more busy with various new and old training. Even had a trainer work with him. Has it helped? No, not at all. I too am left with "what to do?". I am a very experienced person with horses and other animals, having successfully trained some pretty nasty big horses, and some not nasty ones as well. I am hoping that the warm weather will bring back his manners, but I also realize that I cannot allow him to be "seasonal", so if you find the miracle cure, let me know because I am looking also.

To all of the others, wonderful suggestions from all and much appreciated. Thank you.