How do you get ears

[garyo]

We have a few horses that we would like to show in halter this year. We feel like we have the conditioning, nutrition and grooming parts somewhat in hand. We have been pretty good about establishing a schedule and sticking with it. The problem? Actual halter training. We have the trotting and whoaing part, we can even get most of them to set from the halter. Those that don't set by halter are good about letting us handle their legs. We can even get them to give their neck to a bait. BUT...WE CAN"T GET EARS! I know some of this is natural to the horse. We are trying to do some straight behavioral training and reward any increment towards giving ears when set while stretching. Several of them will have ears up until they are in a the training situation. When they sense bait or a treat is involved the ears go back and I do not seem to be able to get them to bring them forward again. Should I eliminate the prerequisite conditions of being set and stretching the neck and just reward ears in the natural seeting first? I've tried blowing, whistling, treats, crunchy plastic/paper etc. Help!!

Ruth

 

[JMS Miniatures]

I never heard of thought of actually training them to get ears, I would just think its a natural thing. They either enjoy it or they don't. I also believe if you do too much on a certain thing they just won't enjoy it.

Do you have the treat right in front of their noses the whole time? Or do you reward them with a treat afterwards? Once you get the treat involved it sounds like they go to a competely different mode and all they want is that treat. They aren't paying attention to you. They are peeved because they aren't getting the treat. What I would do is instead of baiting them train them by some other means to get that neck out and giving you ears. Once they are good then reward them with a treat, but I would only do it til the end. I'm sure someone else will have different better answers.

 

[Littleum]

The pinning the ears back is the "2nd stage"- they know you have a treat, and they want you to give it to them, so they pin the ears back and give you an ugly face.

Instead of asking, they're DEMANDING. It's RUDE, so treat it like it's rude! Do you tolerate ears back and ugly faces at feeding time?

Generally I set them up as normal, stand in front of them (a few paces back), give the verbal cue that it's time to show, and show the treat. I don't shove it in their face or let them lip it, just indicate I have it. Crinkle the wrapper, spill the grain, wiggle the grass ect.

If the ears go forward, praise and yummies.

If the ears go back, I glare at them right back for a second. You CAN use your own body language to convey to them you are NOT pleased. Sometimes it works and those ears go forward and all you had to do was lean forward a bit, make direct eye contact and "think angry thoughts" (seriously, think to yourself "I'm offering you a treat and you're being rude?! How naughty! Bad!")

If still naughty, I make them back up out of my space. Making ugly faces at me demanding treats is NOT polite!!! They get out of my space if they're going to be rude. I let them stew there a little bit and look at something else (they may not be in my space, no treat and no attention either!) Normally they're watching me the whole time like "But... but... I didn't MEAN to!" Then we go on and do something else for a moment before revisiting it.

Usually they learn reaaaalllly quick to ask nicely for the cookie. If they start to lean or creep up on you, just get firm about your space. It's just really an exercise about personal space and good manners, nothing else.

There are some who never get over the ugly face, or just hate the whole thing, or some who get bored REAL quick. But the vast majority of Minis are very food motiviated.

 

[attwoode]

It helps of the horse likes people and associates you with something positive. Some horses seem to do it more naturally. If you wait to give treats until ears are forward you can train them a bit.

 

[DrivinTime]

While I don't show, I do have ear problems with my gelding. He's kind of a special dude; okay, maybe he's a brat. But I love him despite his issues...

Anyway, his latest trick is to put his ears back when I come to let him out of his stall. He comes up to the stall gate, ready to go. I always hold out his halter so he can put his nose in, and he always tries to eat the halter. I tell him to behave and he does. But now, he's added this ear thing. Such a rude boy. But I just stand there and tell him "put your ears up!" and then wait until he moves at least one of them forward. And then I put the halter on. And all is well. He likes to play games, I think.

I might not have bothered with this "game," except that others might not know he's "only kidding" if they tried to put a halter on him. And I don't want him to get away with stuff that he really shouldn't, or on the other hand get punished for something he doesn't realize is naughty. So, he's learning the word "ears" and he's learning to put them forward. I do a lot of verbal commands, and he's pretty quick about catching on to them. He knows the words kiss, eyeball, nose, foot, tail, backup, walk, trot, whoa, halter, and stand still.

He's learning to drive, and making me proud. But he's still a brat down deep.

 

[ClickMini]

Ears are a separate criteria from all the rest. I love one phrase that Pat Parelli uses, "Isolate, Separate, and Re-combine." Each criteria is trained as a separate behavior then combined for your finished product. When I teach it, I also use it as a "default behavior." In other words, in the absence of any other cue, look at me and prick your ears and you very well may earn a treat! As a clicker trainer, my pockets are very rarely empty. Now mind you, if I am getting that behavior in combination with being on top of me, that is not going to earn the treat. But if they lift their necks and give me that special warm look with pretty ears, Click and Treat.

Another thing to consider in future training is what is known as "first order of learning." In other words, whatever they learn first is retained the best. It is one of the behaviors they will try if they are begging. My horses are not all over me even when I have food, but they very well may try a few behaviors out to see if the slot machine might be paying out today. LOL

When you are working specifically on ears, you probably will want to be on the other side of a stall wall or something to keep them out of your space. Then just stand back and wait. As soon as you see the ears go up, click and treat. Continue doing this for 5 minutes or 20 treats. Then say "all done!" and let them know what a good boy/girl they are. If you can do several sessions in a day, that would be great. When they are offering the behavior on their own, you can add in a cue. Just before you know they are going to give it to you anyway, do whatever you want to cue them with and when they give the behavior, C/T as usual. Since I want this to be a default behavior, I want them to give it to me whenever but I also definitely want it on cue. If you do NOT want a behavior as a default, once you start getting the behavior reliably on cue, you will stop clicking and treating when it is off-cue. Now mind you this is VERY HARD! Some of your very best approximations of the desired behavior will happen once you withhold the click. That is also a way to strengthen behavior, but that is an advanced concept. One other thing to consider is behavior duration. There are a lot of sites on the web about clicker training, if you choose to go that route. Regardless of what method of training you decide to use, I can't recommend highly enough that you read the book, "Don't Shoot the Dog," by Karen Pryor. It is the bible of positive reinforcement trainers.

Good luck, and have fun with your horses! As far as I'm concerned, training my own animals is what is "fun" about them. I love the communication, the rapport, and the joy that comes from achieving a goal together. I do work with a coach, but the actual training is done by me from my own farm. I have had my horses in training before and enjoyed it immensely also, but to me there was still something missing in that scenario. When I won my first Grand with my own horse that I trained myself, I thought I had been transported to heaven.

Hope you get there too, someday soon.

 

[Bunnylady]

Since we're on the topic of ears, I'd like to add a question of my own, if I may. I know what pinned ears look like, and what they mean! But what about ears that are just sort of in the switched back position? You know, the point they would be if I were somewhere behind a horse, and he was listening to me? I've noticed that foals put their ears there, when they do the "I'm a baby, don't hurt me" chewing thing. I've seen horses that are moving away from a subtle nudge from a dominant horse do it. I've seen it with horses that are being led, being fed, in a variety of interactions with either other horses or people. Does it always mean unhappiness with the situation? Or do you think it might also be a submissive gesture? Perhaps rather than being angry, might it mean that the horse is just trying to signal something along the lines of "I am not a master of this situation?" I know ears forward expresses confidence (or curiosity) might the ears not forward mean simply the opposite?

 

[Littleum]

It kind of depends, really. And it can mean different things for different horses. Just pay attention to the rest of their body language. It can mean anger, annoyance, frusteration, submission, boredom, relaxation, even contentment and pleasure. Any number of things.

Ear position can even indicate how hard a horse is thinking. A horse going around the ring with their ears perked isn't listening to their handler- sure, it looks great, but their attention is on something else. You often see riding/driving horses with their ears "back" while they work. But if you look closely you'll see the ears are actually flicking and moving- often in time to the cues the horse is getting. Those horses are actually just thinking and those little mental gears are turning.

 

[garyo]

Thank you so much Click Mini and Little Um. Ironically I am trained and certified as a Behavior Analyst with people. Therefore, Click Mini you were speaking my language. What I now realize is that we have not isolated certain behaviors and traits that we want. We have inadvertently reinforced certain undesired behaviors. Now I need to retrain or reinforce the replacement behaviors that I want while extinguishing the undesired behaviors. You both reminded me of what I should be doing which is excatly what I needed and was asking for. I know that some of this training is going to be situational. They will have to discriminate between when they are working with us and when they are being spoiled rotten by Grandma and Grandpa. I think they will quickly make that discrimination though as they already do so with other behaviors.

Thanks again

Ruth

 

[ClickMini]

Excellent Ruth! I am glad you are familiar, as you know there are so many things that can become an issue such as inadvertently creating a behavior chain. The first time I played the training game with humans it was so apparent just how hard it was to extinguish those superstitious behaviors. The brain is a stubborn thing, LOL! Makes me VERY careful about how I set up a training plan, and what I reinforce.

It would be great if you continued to post your results here, I know this is such a common problem for people.

 

[Littleum]

Glad to help.

Report back with your progress!