How to physically increase the topline of a driving mini?

[Taylor Jo]

I was talking to my step daughter about building my driving mini's top line up and I don't have his cart here cause I sold it and won't pick his new one up till Nationals and that really doesn't build a top line. She suggested I take a Training Surcingle put a halter or his driving head stall on him and run a couple of lead ropes down under the front of his legs and bring it up and tie it to the loops of the surcingle. Start out slowly just not all at once but a little bit at a time so he'll get used to it. BUT, she said to check w/ you guy's to make sure that's the thing to do. I have NO IDEA. He's hard to keep weight on as I've discussed in my grain thread and it's VERY hard to keep a top line on him and he doesn't have much of one, if he looses weight that's the first to go. I work him out in the round pen 3 days a week 20 min each time plus he plays in the pasture w/ the yearlings, but again that doesn't do his top line or his butt muscles much good. Thanks, TJ

 

[Sue_C.]

I would use the surcingle, (or just your back saddle) but just ground drive, and long-line him with the lines through the tugs rather than the rings; and NO check. You could put him to a drag, to help muscle him up and put him to work using his hind end. To build the top line especially, I trot them over trotting poles. I start them on the ground, and eventually have them as much as four inches off the ground. This makes them "round" the back, teaches them to really look where they are going, pick those feet up, and will strengthen the entire back, especially the top of the loin.

The reason for no check is that you WANT that head to come down and allow him to round and use himself. You cannot get that good top-line by checking them up...it totally defeats the purpose.

 

[Taylor Jo]

Ok let me see if I understand you. So can I take a halter and lines and run them through his tugs and ground drive him, or a lunge line and run it through his tug? And make him start going over trotting poles? I think someone earlier had suggested jumps to me for stamina for him. So this would kill 2 birds with one stone. I see what your saying about the check though. Do you want his blinders on or is it ok to use a halter? Thanks, I never would have thought of that. TJ

 

[Sue_C.]

I usually us a halter when first starting them out, but if he is trained, you can use either an open or closed bridle with the lines connectedc to the bit. If using the back saddle, I loop the wrap straps around the tugs, then fasten them down so they don't flop about. The reins will run from the bit, through the tugs, to my hands. This way, because the lines are lower, and will come down around the hocks, you have more control of the horse's bum if he tries to spin or tries to avoid going in the direction you ask him to.

I don't mean to jump him over the poles...just have them far enough apart that he can comfortable walk over them at first...then a bit further apart as he learns to trot over them. Soon he will just bounce right over them. I find thast most horses actually seem to enjoy trotting poles once they understand what is expected of them. this too, will really build stamina. It is hard work, so don't spend too much time at it until he is fit.

 

[Crabby-Chicken]

I would think Taylor Jo that if you set up a few hunter jumps around, that would help his butt and back muscles. Nothing too extreme but enough to make him clench his butt and round the back. Maybe a foot and a half off the ground??? A few in a row would be good. Just a suggestion.

 

[Taylor Jo]

No he's trained and I have a used one I can use vs his good one. I understand you better now. No I won't jump him over it I understood you wanted me to "trot" him over it. I did get that thanks. Gee thanks so much. If I have any problems I 'll come on and ask for me Sue. I really appreciate it. Well I have less then 6 weeks to work on it. Today I can't cause it's raining but I'll start tomorrow. Thanks again, TJ

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Your stepdaughter's suggestion isn't too far out of line as long as it's done carefully. That's something people do with big horses a lot, to encourage them to keep their heads low and "drape" the neck for western pleasure or a hunter class. The important part here, as Sue said, is to get that check off of him and then encourage him to work long and low whether that be ground-driving, long-lining or just round-penning. What might work better than lines between the forelegs is a set of sliding sidereins -- those will show him how to balance himself and reach downward, allowing him to work through his back and get his hind legs under him. This will vastly improve his driven work when you do get a cart again and will do wonders for strengthening his topline. Do a search for "sliding side reins" on LB, you'll find posts describing what they are and how to use them. The main advantage is that they offer the horse some relief when his muscles get tired and also won't jerk him in the mouth with each stride as the other arrangement can.

The goal is to teach the horse to use the muscles in his back so they will strengthen. He can't do that when checked up tightly because his head is held up and out artificially and he's going to hollow his neck and clamp down his back as he tries to figure out how to move in that position. Muscles that are held constantly tight and locked down are going to become rigid, not more flexible. Be sure that when you use the sliding side reins you don't punish him for lowering his head. That's what we want! If he wants to reach all the way to the ground, let him! They'll do that at first as they play with their balance and figure out how it's most comfortable to move. Eventually he'll find a middle height that suits him and again, you're going to reward him for anything that looks like raising the root of his neck even though that means the counterbalance (the head) will go down. Don't worry about this tendency- it's only a step in the process. In the end he'll have developed the strength to hold himself in a headset without muscular fatigue and the check will be there as a reminder, rather than something he's leaning on. Especially let him lengthen his frame when he's going over trot poles- he really needs to put that head down in order to get the best stretching and strengthening effect over the topline.

There is really no substitute for good dressage work when it comes to improving a horse's topline.

That's what it's meant for!

Physical therapy for horses.

Leia

 

[Taylor Jo]

Leia, I put in Sliding Side Reins and the only thing I got back was your post. I see what your saying like Sue C say's it's ok for the head to come down. I went and looked and I found this on Ozark Mtn. is this ok to get?

Elastic Side Reins

These great training reins can help you start your horse correctly. Get them moving under themselves and achieve correct head placement. Use them with any Surcingle or back saddle. Elastic is very thick and tough. Mini and pony sizes available. Snaps on both ends. TJ

 

[disneyhorse]

Leia, I put in Sliding Side Reins and the only thing I got back was your post. I see what your saying like Sue C say's it's ok for the head to come down. I went and looked and I found this on Ozark Mtn. is this ok to get?
Elastic Side Reins

These great training reins can help you start your horse correctly. Get them moving under themselves and achieve correct head placement. Use them with any Surcingle or back saddle. Elastic is very thick and tough. Mini and pony sizes available. Snaps on both ends. TJ

Well... you can use the side reins that you found at Ozark... I do have a pair of side reins that I use but I do like to switch it up so my horses don't rely on leaning. There are two schools of thought on the "fixed" side reins... one is they learn to lean on them to set their head, and the other is they learn to NOT lean on them because they don't have any "give" to them.

If you want to use "sliding side reins" you can do it very easily by making your own. I have one that I use... basically it's just a length (not sure how long, I'd estimate it to be a few feet long?) of clothesline. I knotted a snap on to one end, and then I use the other end to quick-release to the surcingle.

Basically, take your length of clothesline. Snap it to the SIDE RING on your surcingle. Run the line through the bit. Then run the line through the surcingle ring in the center of the back. Then run the line through the bit on the other side. THEN knot the line to the SIDE RING on the OTHER side of the surcingle.

This way, you can adjust the knot on the side ring to bring in the nose. You want to start out LOOSE but eventually have it tight enough that the horse keeps its head vertical with the ground. This allows the horse to bring its head up and down and also can move slightly side to side. This helps eliminate the need to make the inside side rein tighter than the outside rein, like you should do with fixed side reins, when you lunge in a circle.

I hope this description helps.

Andrea

 

[Taylor Jo]

Thanks Andrea, but I think I'd just as soon buy the reins. I'd get to frustrated making the dang knots and "trying" to make it the right length. I have NO patience for stuff like that. It may seem super easy to you but for me I see it as a pain the butt. HA..... YES, I'd RATHER spend the $25.00 on them. Isn't that just crazy. I can just see myself now though out there in the heat and humdity CUSSING it. So I'll stick to buying them. I do appreciate it though. TJ

 

[MiLo Minis]

You will still need to adjust the fixed side reins for your horse - they aren't one size fits all. Not only do the horses tend to lean on them they also tend to stiffen through the shoulders and that prevents a good bend. If you are going to use fixed side reins on a lunge circle you need to be sure to lengthen the outside rein enough to allow for a bend to prevent stiffness, the tighter the circle the more slack is needed on the outside. With the sliding side reins you don't have this problem because the reins can slide, not only up and down, but side to side, allowing the horse to carry himself the way he needs to.

 

[Taylor Jo]

I'll just go elsewhere then and buy the sliding reins. Thanks for the tip guy's. TJ

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Leia, I put in Sliding Side Reins and the only thing I got back was your post. I see what your saying like Sue C say's it's ok for the head to come down. I went and looked and I found this on Ozark Mtn. is this ok to get?
Elastic Side Reins

These great training reins can help you start your horse correctly. Get them moving under themselves and achieve correct head placement. Use them with any Surcingle or back saddle. Elastic is very thick and tough. Mini and pony sizes available. Snaps on both ends. TJ

Unfortunately the fixed side reins aren't going to do much for your horse's topline as again, they just fix the nose in place and the horse will often overflex and get behind the bit which will only make the muscling along his neck worse. Sorry!

I put in "sliding side" under search and got these...

Erick as a 4 year old (see pages 2 and 3)

Joy Driving

...along with others.

Basically, take your length of clothesline. Snap it to the SIDE RING on your surcingle. Run the line through the bit. Then run the line through the surcingle ring in the center of the back. Then run the line through the bit on the other side. THEN knot the line to the SIDE RING on the OTHER side of the surcingle

I tie mine the same way Andrea does, but in order to work the topline of a green horse or one with a low neck set the middle snap really ought to be run between the forelegs to encourage stretching downward.

I'd just as soon buy the reins. I'd get to frustrated making the dang knots and "trying" to make it the right length. I have NO patience for stuff like that. It may seem super easy to you but for me I see it as a pain the butt.

I understand, believe me. But if you aren't willing to put in the time you aren't going to find any quick fixes. Even elastic sidereins require knowledge of how to adjust them correctly for the horse's stage of training, and that's something you can't buy.

Why don't you skip all the side-rein business and just long-line over poles and such for awhile? See how it goes and check back with us after awhile if he doesn't seem to be making progress. You know we're always happy to help!

Leia

 

[Taylor Jo]

I ended up buying the sliding side reins at Top Tack in Washington. Those pictures you gave me REALLY helped a LOT NOW I understand it better. I'll be able to do it now. I was just so confused. I do MUCH better w/ a picture. I'll let you know how it all goes and my stepdaughter is going to help me she's really good too and I trust her. NOW to get my husband to get the PVC for me. I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks you've all been so helpful. {{{{{HUGS}}}}}} TJ

 

[Tatonkas Dream]

This goes along with alot of postings and its a shame they don't put a 'real' pic of the balanced training system on the site

http://www.kvvet.com and item # 94310

another site/style

http://www.patchesequestrian.co.uk/html/jo...ng_aid_sys.html

I've used this system for years with starting my biggies and converted parts of it for the minis now.

you can have this have sep front end / rear end - driving horses that have had breeching will be a bit better butt tuck than riding only horses (most riding horses rarely if ever have anything on their butt so tend to reach under a bit more simply from it being attached) but you can also connect it all so that as they push with the front end (nose up / fighting it) the then pull the rear up under themselves more.

Has different settings as the horse progresses to eventually get a high head set (if desired) or stay with long and low concepts.

 

[hobbyhorse23]

That's a Pessoa system, and I made one of those for my mini the same way I made my sliding sidereins. Unfortunately I haven't gotten to try it since my only mini hurt his back this spring right after I made it and can't lunge! Drat it all.

Leia

 

[brasstackminis]

When I was competing in Dressage in the "big" horse world, my trainer always said that the "fixed" side reins (with or without the elastic) were primarily used to teach horses to push into the bit. The sliding side reins (we used Vienna reins) were good to teach horses to reach for the bit. We were never to use the fixed side reins on any horse that was afraid of the bit for some reason or was inclined to go behind the verticle. We used the Vienna reins on almost any horse but were also directed to use them specifically on our horses who wanted to be held up all the time to get OFF the bit. If I am not mistaken, we used Vienna reins tighter on our heavy (in the hand) horses and looser for our more lightmouthed mounts.

We also did a lot of riding "long and low" at the trot to build up the topline. The thing is, the horse has to be engaged in the haunches for it to work, not just dragging his rear along. He needs to push into the contact on his bit. That is where the poles (caveletti) help. It is hard to drag your rear OVER a pole! I have used caveletti for my minis before and it really does make them work hard so it needs to be used judiciously, especially if they are set at any height! I also found that 4-5 poles discourages any jumping over the entire set. It also seems to help the horse see the differance between a jump (one or two ground poles and a jump pole) and the trot poles.

Good Luck!

 

[Taylor Jo]

I got my sliding side reins in the mail today and my poles at Lowes as well today, so were all set to go just have to get the stuff on him. I won't be able to do it tomorrow but probably Sat. I'm real anxious to get it on him and see how he does. Thanks all, TJ

 

[Echo Acres]

Taylor Jo- How much did your reins cost? Can I see a picture once you have them on? I am like you, understand more with a photo.