I am having a dilema...

[srpwildrose]

I have received alot of good advice.

Thank you everyone.

This forum is a great place to learn all we can about our miniature horses.

I am closing this per advise from a friend.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

The farm has all they need to register the foal, all they need to do is pay the fines....I think??

I am amazed that, yet again, the AMHA appears to be encouraging it's members to commit a falsehood?

Anyway, the problem is definitely not yours, it is the problem of the people that sold her the colt.

If they sold it as registered then it is a BIG problem!!

If the new owners bought it as "registration applied for" the farm has a BIG problem.

If the new owners bought it as "registrable" it just goes to show you can't trust anyone!

 

[srpwildrose]

The farm has all they need to register the foal, all they need to do is pay the fines....I think??
I am amazed that, yet again, the AMHA appears to be encouraging it's members to commit a falsehood?

Anyway, the problem is definitely not yours, it is the problem of the people that sold her the colt.

If they sold it as registered then it is a BIG problem!!

If the new owners bought it as "registration applied for" the farm has a BIG problem.

If the new owners bought it as "registrable" it just goes to show you can't trust anyone!

AMEN....Thank You.

 

[Charlotte]

How FRUSTRATING! A thought that just runs accross my mind is: What proof is there that this colt is the foal resulting from that breeding? Is there some proof of that? Maybe pictures of that foal with that mare? DNA would be the only other way I can think of to prove it.

I have become very leery of buying at public auctions no matter who the seller is. I had to go through major contortions to get the registration on a foal from a bred mare I bought at sale......and yes, all paperwork was in order as per sale time.....but not at registration time.

I would say the buyer needs to go back to the person(s) who consigned the horse to the sale. It is their responsibility to make it right. If necessary contact the auction company though they usually won't do much....it is still the responsibility of the seller.

Charlotte

eidted to add....if the seller won't take care of the problem the buyer SHOULD file a complaint with the registries involved.

 

[albahurst]

Susan-

I agree with Charlotte. The only way to get things 'right' is to go through the proper channels.

Sorry you are having to deal with this mess.

 

[Southern_Heart]

The farm has all they need to register the foal, all they need to do is pay the fines....I think??
I am amazed that, yet again, the AMHA appears to be encouraging it's members to commit a falsehood?[/b]

 


Anyway, the problem is definitely not yours, it is the problem of the people that sold her the colt.


If they sold it as registered then it is a BIG problem!!


If the new owners bought it as "registration applied for" the farm has a BIG problem.


If the new owners bought it as "registrable" it just goes to show you can't trust anyone!

 


I agree with Jane. (encouraging it's members to commit a falsehood?) Wow !!!!!

Thats just soooo not right! Yet again that seems like whats happening.


I for sure would not lie and say the foal was born on my property, No way, no how, NO! For sure it would someday come back to bite me in the butt!!


I say its the big name farm's problem and not yours. JMHO


Sorry your going though this big mess.

 

[srpwildrose]

I agree with Jane. (encouraging it's members to commit a falsehood?) Wow !!!!!

Thats just soooo not right! Yet again that seems like whats happening.

I for sure would not lie and say the foal was born on my property, No way, no how, NO! For sure it would someday come back to bite me in the butt!!

I say its the big name farm's problem and not yours. JMHO

Sorry your going though this big mess.

Thanks.........I too was afraid it would "bite me in the butt" someday....

Thats why I finally had to ask the forum what to do.

It would definatly be falsehood to fill out the paperwork.

Thank You everyone for your replies.

 

[minimomNC]

She was told by AMHA/R to send me the paperwork to fill out to register the colt.

Looks like she was told by both registries so lets not make AMHA to be the only bad guy here.

I was once told by AMHR that a person that has a stallion in their name with AMHR can register all of their foals from that stallion as long as they send in a stallion report, EVEN IF THEY HAVEN'T OWNED THE STALLION IN SEVERAL YEARS ! ! I was horrified. Since they were not DNA testing who would care about the parentage of any foal in AMHR. I only buy AMHR registered horses from people I know are reputable now.

As for public auctions, just understand you buy at your own risk no matter who is holding the sale or who consigns to the sales. I bought a very high priced yearling stallion years ago only to have to geld him as a 4 year old because he was a cryptorchid. Since I bought him at a public auction, I had no other recourse. So unless its stated as certain things, then most times your out of luck.

 

[SHANA]

I would sign the paperwork because if I sold the mare as bred and a foal resulted then I am the breeder of that foal and the person who bought the foal from the big name farm is not at fault and may have to wait a long time to get her colt registered if she waited for the big farm name to transfer the mare. I would help her out by signed the paperwork for her. I know some farms do not transfer horses into their names. I have bought a few of those myself but I always transfer them into my name as soon as I get the paperwork to do so.

 

[windemereminis]

Susan,

If you don't feel comfortable with signing the papers then don't. I think it would be best for you to speak to the registries and the farm you sent the mares to. You are obviously struggling with this so I would suggest you talk to the people that can do something about it. This type of topic only stirs things up so let's keep the peace and do what is best for everyone which is talking to the people who are directly involved.

I know that if someone had a concern with me I would rather they talk to me that to read about it on a public forum. I think everyone would agree with that thought if they put themselves in the place of the people involved. I'm not saying what is right or wrong but just to take it to those who can resolve the problem. Isn't that the best way to do things?

Good luck,

Janet

 

[ohmt]

Sorry, but I'm one of those that would sign the papers. If the person who now owns the colt can prove that the colt is the result of your mare and stallion, then I'd go for it. If not, that's just one more unregistered mini out there. PLUS, put yourself in that lady's shoes. I bet you'd want those papers signed.

The person who bought your mare hasn't transferred her into their name therefore she's technically still yours to the registries so I don't think it's fair that people are accusing the registries of telling you to go against regulations. That mare is still in YOUR name so to them she is YOURS.

I do think the person who bought the colt should still file a complaint with the registries however because what the farm that sold him did was not right and people need to learn that there will be consequences for their actions-otherwise they're just going to keep doing it.

 

[Littleum]

What is preventing the Big Farm from doing the transfer on the mare? Have you called the Big Farm and asked why the mare hasn't been transferred?

 

[Minimor]

I wouldn't sign the papers. It's just not right to do so, when the mare was gone from your possession and foaled for someone else. If I didn't see the mare with her foal at side and can say 100% for sure that the colt in question is the foal out of that mare, I absolutely would not sign anything certifying his parentage. Two years from now if someone were to DNA that colt & discover that he really isn't out of that mare--is AMHA going to say oh, no problem, we told you to sign the papers even knowing that you weren't in possession of the mare when she foaled and we realized that if there was any parentage errors that they aren't your fault, so you're in no way held accountable for this error (I say this of AMHA because they are the only registry that has DNA requirements. Same applies to AMHR (IMO) if ever they do come up with some DNA requirements & were to find a parentage problem on this colt. Are the registries willing to sign a waiver to this effect, acknowledging that you cannot be punished by them if there is found to be some parentage error on this colt??

Big name farm in question has the paperwork from you--they can easily make this right by transferring the mare & registering the colt in their name, and then providing the transfers to the buyer--big name farm is the one that should step up to the plate, not you!

 

[angelspeeper]

Sorry, but I'm one of those that would sign the papers. If the person who now owns the colt can prove that the colt is the result of your mare and stallion, then I'd go for it. If not, that's just one more unregistered mini out there. PLUS, put yourself in that lady's shoes. I bet you'd want those papers signed. The person who bought your mare hasn't transferred her into their name therefore she's technically still yours to the registries so I don't think it's fair that people are accusing the registries of telling you to go against regulations. That mare is still in YOUR name so to them she is YOURS.

I do think the person who bought the colt should still file a complaint with the registries however because what the farm that sold him did was not right and people need to learn that there will be consequences for their actions-otherwise they're just going to keep doing it.

I have to agree! If it can be proven thru DNA that the colt came from my stock...I would sign the papers. But ONLY if it could be proven. Otherwise I would try to help her with said "big name farm" to get the papers in order.

I also have to agree that it is NOT right of the other members to come down on the registrys. As far as they are concerned the person who is listed on the papers IS the owner of the horse! That is why they told her to contact the breeder. That is who technically owns the horse.

That being said I would still put in a complaint to the registry. There should be penalties for these kinds of things. It doesn't matter if it is a little breeder or the biggest breeder in that registry. Overlooked paperwork is one thing, but it sounds like this person has tried in good faith to contact the people she bought the colt from. They are choosing not to transfer the paperwork. If they sold her the colt are registered, and are refusing to do the right thing then...SHAME on them!!!

 

[MountainMeadows]

I guess I see it more like OHMT - the mare was yours originally - and she was bred at your home to your stallion. She was sold to another farm, but they did NOT invoke their "right" to transfer her into their name -- THEREFORE the mare is still technically yours (as far as the paperwork with AMHA/AMHR), and the paperwork is still technically your "responsibility/right". Now, before everyone jumps on me, I DO AGREE that the foal should be DNA'd to prove that this baby actually IS from your mare and your stallion - if not -- THEN the BIG NAME farm really has some explaining to do and it is no longer your problem. If the baby IS from your breeding then all you have done is help someone out of a difficult bind because at this time you are able to do so - really, the situation could be worse for this buyer.

They could be dealing with a person who bred the mare and now wants nothing to do with the transaction whatsoever and would really be stuck - so for now, as long the the sire & dam are still technically in your name on the paperwork, I would suggest that the buyer pay you the late fees and that you do the paperwork pronto- however INSIST on the foal being DNA-PQ'd.

Just my thoughts - trying to keep you in good graces -

Stac

 

[Songcatcher]

Well, I think I know who the "big name" farm is, and if I am right, this is not the first time this type of situation has happened.

I would not sign for this. The buyer should persue the seller and expose their shady business practices, not expect the previous seller of the mare to bail them out.

 

[~Lisa~]

I would sign the paperwork because if I sold the mare as bred and a foal resulted then I am the breeder of that foal

I guess that would be my thinking as well. If the time line of the birth meets your breeding records bottom line is if this mare is still in your name she is considered yours legally no different then the pink slip on a sold car. Of course that also leaves you open to some liability if you do not feel this foal is out of this mare

Why not tell the owner of the colt you will help them but they would need to PQ the foal first

 

[Mini Gaits Farm]

Mountain Meadows...I love your post. You put it the way I want to. I hesitated to post, BUT, this is NOT a dilema, only so because one person, the breeder of the foal, chooses to make it a dilema. I am certain that it was an oversight on the part of the "BNF" that the mare has not yet been transferred. I suppose that could be called a dilema, if one so chooses. I guess I have a dilema then because after reviewing the paperwork on my 38 head of horses, this number pales in comparison I suppose to the BNF, I have discovered that I purchased a yearling filly in the spring of 2007 and have yet to transfer her. WOW, hope I don't cause anyone the trouble to have to sign their name to something....OMG...people sometimes make me realize why I prefer to deal with horses and not them. OMG...I now have to pay the penalty...that some of you insist should be imposed...it is already in place by the way...I now have to pay $25 to both AMHA and AMHR to transfer this filly that is now a mare and is now in foal to my stallion, instead of the $15 per registry that it would have been had I just simply not have overlooked it .....It looks like I have quite a dilema here, but am sure I will get it taken care of.

I have helped people before in situations like this, sold bred mares that people had not yet transferred, to get their foals registered and never once did I feel a need to not sign the PW or to get on Lilbeginnings and post it labeled as a dilema...the poster knows exactly how she is going to handle it, but it looks to me like they just feel a need to put it out there to start a bashing....

I bet this has happened "thousands" of times to others and could happen to ANY of us from the people that own one or two horses to the people that own huge volumes of horses. We are all human and oversights do occur.

 

[alphahorses]

and never once did I feel a need to not sign the PW or to get on Lilbeginnings and post it labeled as a dilema...the poster knows exactly how she is going to handle it, but it looks to me like they just feel a need to put it out there to start a bashing....

I agree. Seems like you are trying to drop enough hints that people will guess who the "big farm" is. There are many "big farms" out there, and I'm sure different ones are popping in the minds of some readers who are now privately assuming it is the farm they are thinking of.

Call the person you sold her to and work it out between you or tell the foal owner to call the person they bought the mare from.

 

[mizbeth]

I agree with most here. This is not the place to disguss this matter. The owners, breeders should be happy to cooperate to get this colt registered. If a simply DNA test will do it, then do it.

It could be a well meaning - mistake and believe me we all make them. Friend to friend, business to business. Sometimes our well meaning intentions simply get out of hand. I do not believe thier is deliberate intent to mislead anyone and should/could be resolved fairly easily.

My 2 cents!

B