If a horse is a bald faced blue eyed frame overo with just a little white on his side and 3 white sox, what are his chances of passing blue eyes to his offspring. I am using my horse as an example but it doesnt have to be. I want to know what the chanses are of blue eyes passing from a frame in general too. From those with minimal white to lots of white. It seems to me that Splash is the most likely to pass blue eyes on at all. I have not bred horses so I dont know much about the color genetics but I find them very very interresting! I know blue eyes are heterozygous but darn it are they ever cool!
Kind of a silly question.......
- Thread starter Watcheye
- Start date
Help Support Miniature Horse Talk Forums:
Carolyn R
Well-Known Member
A horse that carries splash with blue eyes and no other modifiers that would generate blue eyes is said to be 50% likely to pass on blue eyes.
Now if you had a Lwo+ blue eyed horse and an LWO neg. blue eyed horse, assuming the blue eyes are from splash and not being a double dilute, you increase your chances of a blue eyed foal, but it is not 100% that you will get blue eyes, you need to factor in ancestors.
The frame factor is a modifier, you can have it on any colored horse, and any patterned horse, even a solid dark eyed horse or homozygous toby can carry frame, (that boggles my mind). It is how that frame reacts with other patterns that give you the funky colorizing. Sabino with frame is thought to give some stellar results.
Now if you had a Lwo+ blue eyed horse and an LWO neg. blue eyed horse, assuming the blue eyes are from splash and not being a double dilute, you increase your chances of a blue eyed foal, but it is not 100% that you will get blue eyes, you need to factor in ancestors.
The frame factor is a modifier, you can have it on any colored horse, and any patterned horse, even a solid dark eyed horse or homozygous toby can carry frame, (that boggles my mind). It is how that frame reacts with other patterns that give you the funky colorizing. Sabino with frame is thought to give some stellar results.
Last edited by a moderator:
I realize that "odds" are the 50% thing, but my full sized stallion has obviously not read the book, latest findings etc. He is Heterozygous Tobiano, Lethal White Positive and Homozygous for black. He has two blue eyes. Of the 8 babies he has produced out of all brown eyed mares, several of which are QH, the rest are tobianos, he has put blue eyes on all but one foal! Not complaining mind you, I do LOVE the blue eyes!
Carolyn R
Well-Known Member
He was a Bay splash frame overo, which would probably account for the very high amount of offspring he has produced with blue eyes (including my LWO+ filly by him)
So my Hawk grandson carries splash in there somewhere too? Cool! I am wondering his chances of passing blue eyes should I breed him. Breeding him to a double dillute would be no different to breeding him to a brown eyed mare correct? (In bringing this up I understand that confo is first and foremost).He was a Bay splash frame overo, which would probably account for the very high amount of offspring he has produced with blue eyes (including my LWO+ filly by him)
Carolyn R
Well-Known Member
If a horse has blue eyes, was tested LWO neg and is not a double dilute, then it is typically thought to be a splash carrier. If he is LWO+ he could still carry splash, but there isn't a test for splash.
Remember, even a double dilute can be a LWO carrier, with that said,
If a stallion is a splash/frame carrier, carries 1 cream gene, and is bred to a double dilute, you could get another double dilute, which always have blue eyes, but could also have splash/be LWO+
If your stallion has no cream genes and is bred to a double dilute and the foal has blue eyes, it could be from splash or LWO, unless your stallion tests LWO neg. then the blue eyes would be from splash.
If your stallion has not been tested for frame, I would do so if you plan on using him as a stud. His blue eyes could be from either or both splash and frame.
Remember, even a double dilute can be a LWO carrier, with that said,
If a stallion is a splash/frame carrier, carries 1 cream gene, and is bred to a double dilute, you could get another double dilute, which always have blue eyes, but could also have splash/be LWO+
If your stallion has no cream genes and is bred to a double dilute and the foal has blue eyes, it could be from splash or LWO, unless your stallion tests LWO neg. then the blue eyes would be from splash.
If your stallion has not been tested for frame, I would do so if you plan on using him as a stud. His blue eyes could be from either or both splash and frame.
love_casper
Well-Known Member
The expression of frame (how much white the horse has) is not related to how much blue eyes it will produce. Because frame is only ever heterozygous, range of color patterns within it are purely genetic variation. Really loud expressioned horses are often sabino as well, which may increase its chance of giving its offspring a white pattern, but sabino isn't related to blue eyes so that won't change anything. The interesting thing with Frame is that not all frames have blue eyes, and of course not all blue eyes are frame. You may have two brown eyed parents that if one carried frame may produce a blue eyed foal. Seen it happen.
Splash however, has blue eyes more often than frame does. Reason being that even when in minimal form with not much white, the blue eyes are the last to go. If the horse is splash and doesn't have blue eyes, there is usually a reason. Other patterns... i.e. tobiano... like to cover up the blue eyes from splash. So if I see a horse with a wild face marking but brown eyes, it's often because the horse is also tobiano. ANOTHER difference is that amount of white from splash actually IS genetically relevant. If the horse is a loud splash, it's homozygous. If it has just face white and/or blue eyes, then it is heterozygous. That will effect what it produces as well.
Splash however, has blue eyes more often than frame does. Reason being that even when in minimal form with not much white, the blue eyes are the last to go. If the horse is splash and doesn't have blue eyes, there is usually a reason. Other patterns... i.e. tobiano... like to cover up the blue eyes from splash. So if I see a horse with a wild face marking but brown eyes, it's often because the horse is also tobiano. ANOTHER difference is that amount of white from splash actually IS genetically relevant. If the horse is a loud splash, it's homozygous. If it has just face white and/or blue eyes, then it is heterozygous. That will effect what it produces as well.
If he has blue eyes and is a hawk grandson, yes that is probably splash. Depends on if he is heterozygous splash or homozygous on the passing down of the blue eyes. Also, if he carries frame because that will add in a higher percentage as well. And yes you are correct on the double dilute having no effect on the offspring's blue eyes possibility, just like a brown eyed mare.
Carolyn R
Well-Known Member
There is not a test for splash, so there is no way to prove or disprove this theory.
Joanne
Well-Known Member
Carolyn the tobiano gene is in a different location than the other pattern genes which is why it can be homozygous for tobiano as well as carry other pattern genes as well.
The sabino gene is an excellent pattern gene to create some incredibly fun patterns in horses. A sabino stallion will remain part of my breeding program so that I can cross them with my LWO positive mares as well as my splash and tobiano mares.
The foal patterns from these crosses are way too cool!
Similar threads
