Leading and My Space question

[MyMiniGal]

I have a question for you all. Halo leads "ok" with me. Not great, as I am still learning my body language. The ranch owner and I have figured out, that she is what the ranch owner is calling "claustrophobic" and doesn't do well, with us holding the lead close and tighter. So I've try to keep it around 2-3 ft slack. She does occasionally stop. I'm still trying to learn to read her, if she is scared of something, or just stopping due to stubborness. The ranch owner, is also a trainer and trains in the Parelli way. So she is trying to help me read Halo, and if she is stopping due to being scared, to just stop and give her time to sort whatever it is out (she reared once, when I didn't do that) if she is stopping due to just wanting to stop, I am to tap her with the stick in my hand on her rump/side area. I am short, and we were using a 4ft. carrot stick, but I found that super awkward and had to drag it a long, which didn't help being able to correct fast enough, and if I held it farther down, that left a lot coming up and over the top of my hand and I kept getting that end stuck in the lead line. The piggy stick is a perfect size and works well for me. Anyway, what I am wondering, is what do I do to get her to not stop, if I don't have the stick with me? I know pulling doesn't work. I do use a soft rope halter, so would snapping it work? Or do I just reach back with my hand and give a tap, with however long I can reach back, which wouldn't be far, as I have short arms. Also, there are times, she tries and gets behind me. I don't like that at all, makes me nervous. But I have been told not to turn around or look at her, just use the stick to move her over and beside me again, but while still staying focused on walking. There is so much I feel I am trying to do, that I forget certain things and since she did rear once, I don't want her rearing behind me like that. When she reared, I was by myself, and I think I got her too close to a barrel, and that the stick may of waved near her face. I'm not sure, I had misunderstood that the stick had to be down, in neutral, and I had it sticking out behind me to try and keep her lined up right. Anyway, this has gotten way longer than I had planned. LOL Just any tips on getting her to stay by my side, and on correcting her, if I don't have the stick would be very helpful. The ranch owner helps me all she can, but she isn't there all the time, so thought I would ask here. Yep, total newbie here. Can't even get past the leading really well yet. LOL

 

[targetsmom]

Sorry I don't have time for a full answer but if you go to the 4-H section of our website (link below) there is info on leading (and lots of other things). I do not use a stick, just lots of practice.

 

[MyMiniGal]

The leading link, doesn't work. It says page not found. I remember trying to see that last week, on your site and forgot to tell you that. I so wanted to read it too.

 

[Minimor]

I am not sure how a four ft stick can be too long and awkward I carry a five ft stock whip if I need a stick.

Anyway-- if she stops and you don't have a stick, just step back a bit, slightly behind her shoulder and cluck to her. She may be stopping because you get too far ahead--you should be by her shoulder. By all means give her the slack lead but don't let her fall behind you. I do not hold them tightly and I don't get ahead--not if I am leading them properly!

 

[MyMiniGal]

Well, I am only 5 ft. and to have it down, like I was told to, makes it drag. Also, I have never used a stick in that way...so totally new to me. The shorter stick I am better at, but I honestly want to lead her without it. As I know there are going to be times, I just don't have it with me and I need to know what to do. No, she stops, even if I am at her shoulder. But I will admit, with so much slack, I, at times, have gotten ahead of her, but that isn't the only times she stops. Would also when she does that, me turning with her, like turning another direction help? Or is that giving her what she wants? Of course, if we had to go a certain direction, then there would be no question the direction we would go, but if it is for training and practicing, then I was wondering about turning, and keeping walking would help, as that tells her I am in charge?

 

[Minimor]

I think it is more a matter of practice with the whip --or your stick--to make it less awkward--I am 5'8" and can use a longe whip, if I have to, for leading--I carry it (lash doubled up and held in my hand) back and angled downward so that it is there but not in use, yet not dragging--so the ease does come with practice!

You can try turning her to get her to move out if she sticks that way--nothing wrong with that. If you drop back, behind her shoulder, you really should be able to "drive" her forward. I can take a horse that is barely halter broke and have it leading well enough that if you were watching you wouldn't guess the horse really doesn't lead! Just by dropping back that little bit extra allows you to push the horse forward--I have a friend who calls this 'faking it' when she takes a barely halter broke youngster into the show ring and has it walking and trotting.

 

[MyMiniGal]

LOL Ok, I will try stepping back, even if I am at her shoulder and see what happens. Sounds good to me! I do get that if you are more at her shoulder, or a tiny bit back, they can't get behind you then. She is one that doesn't have a lot of get up and go, so may be, even with my short legs, I am walking too fast. So will try and just take it more easy on that.

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

First, it is unlikely you are walking too fast (she can easily keep up with you even if you trot and should do so) Second, try carrying your 'stick' in the left hand rather than the right (not next to your horse. I prefer to use a dressage whip which is light and easily balanced (about 4 feet long is fine) If she stops , step back a bit and reach around behind yourself with the whip and tap the horse's hip. Hope that is clear, I'm not always sure if what I'm saying gives the reader a clear picture or not. Also, your idea of turning her is good, when I am starting a youngster and their feet 'stick' I will step them over to the right for a step or 2 to unstick them, and then move on the way I wanted to go. If I have to do that every half dozen steps in the beginning thats fine, they get better and better with practice but it depends on where your horse is at in being trained to lead. If one thing doesn't work well for you mix and match the 'helper cues' until you get what you want. If you stay calm but determined to go where you choose, she will learn what you need her to. Just to give you some confidence that you really can/will succeed; I have a special needs daughter who is both physically (mild to moderate) and mentally challenged (at 16 she was like a 5 year old) and when we were breeding she trained all the babies to lead. I would give them a couple of short lessons to help them understand what was wanted then hand her the lead. She would happily take the foal and wander around, if it stopped she would pause and then start walking again, she never got emotional about it, just assumed those babies wanted to go see what she wanted to. There was never any struggling, no pulling back, no rearing, just the occasional pause or attempt to walk away when she stopped. Within a few days those babies led like they were born knowing how. If she can train we all can, we must remember to be patient, calm and continue to do what we set out to do until it is accomplished.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Good advice there, already. Especially the "practice with the whip" bit, as working out all the things to do whilst reasoning with a recalcitrant youngster is never a good idea!! I agree you are too far forward of her- she is stopping because your body language is too far ahead of her shoulder- that is a key for her to stop as you are the dominant member of the partnership. You need to be just behind her shoulder with your body language "pushing" her forward- that is what your stick should be aiding, in the way that heels push the horse forward when you are riding it. You also need to get her to let you hold the halter- it is quite important when you start traffic training, or , for that matter, anything scary, training! It is much harder to control an animal that has enough rope to hang you both!

Anyway, I am old school and happy to be proud of it- I think the horse should, within limits, accept whatever you wish to do with it and letting the horse dictate, at this stage, is potentially disastrous.

I will state now, so there is no confusion, I am a lot less than a fan of Parelli, in fact you would need a block and tackle and a plastic coated, 16 foot, barge pole to get me within shouting distance, so just be careful what you do. I have seen more horses wrecked by so called "NH " than I have ever seen trained!

 

[Minimor]

I read your first post again--and will now add that I think your 3' of lead is too much. A horse generally doesn't like being held by the halter, nod even right at the snap on the lead (though as someone else said the horse should learn to accept that in certain situations -- it can sometimes be necessary to hold the horse very close. Generally though for leading 18" between your right hand and the halter should be enough.

If us true that you shouldn't turn around and face her when she stalls out--but you should move back to her side if it happens that she stops and you end up ahead of her. I am not sure if that is what you are doing or if you are trying to reach back and bring her up to you.

If you carried your stick up too high and it waved in her face...she was definitely way too far behind you. It is up to you to stay beside her and then make sure that she stays up beside you. Some horse's have a brisker walk than others but I doubt you are walking too fast. Encourage her to walk on and get her to keep up with her. Allowing her to dawdle makes it easier for her to stall out.

I have to admit, I would lose the carrot stick (those make great tomato stakes! LOL) and use an ordinary whip jnstead. Much less clumsy and IMO much more effective.

 

[MyMiniGal]

Thank you everyone! I was thinking of a whip too. Much lighter, and if I would hold it in my left hand, I could still reach her by going behind and it wouldn't be right next to her. I don't think it is so much her with the problem...just my body language is confusing her. I have never used a stick like that, and I know I've been awkward with it. I have lead a couple big horses and never had this problem. I may be trying to "think" things out too much too. Anyway, I am going to take something from what everyone has said. I also agree as to getting her use to having less lead line. I've been wondering, if we train her to have that much, how in the world will I ever walk her in a parade, if I choose to someday? I was told not to turn and adjust myself to her, as that is confusing her. And that is exactly what I was doing but may be if I don't turn and adjust but just step back, but keep facing forward, that won't confuse her. I have lead her just fine and other times, she seems to have problems. So I guess at times I get it right and other times I didn't. I have to say, I did lose my confidence when she reared. Even though, she was very apologetic afterwards, as she put her head down and walked slowly to me, for some loving. I could tell she was as shocked with herself, as I was. It has taken me several weeks, to feel somewhat confident again and I am sure she has felt that.

 

[Minimor]

No, honestly, you will not confuse her if you move back to her--not even if you turn around and walk back to her--though again you should not have that much extra less rope that you can get that far ahead in the first place. If one of mine stalls out--of worse, flies back on the lead, I most certainly do turn around to see what the problem is--I do not just back up to the horse!--and I haven't had one confused by that. You do not want to turn around and try to pull the horse horse toward you, that will only make her balk more--but there is absolutely nothing wrong with walking back to the horse and starting over from that point. It is not letting the horse away with anything, it is not confusing to the horse--it is actually much more clear to the horse what you want--because by stepping back in place beside her and then asking her to walk forward again you are being perfectly clear about what you want.

 

[MyMiniGal]

Ok, thank you...I don't pull on her, that much I have figured out. I may be asking a lot of questions, as my trainer, is going to be out for 6 wks., I will still be able to talk to her, but not have her help me and I don't want to bother her alot, while she is recuperating.

 

[Minimor]

Ask away! No one here minds!

 

[MyMiniGal]

Thank you, I will. I am sure some of my problem is I have misunderstood what to do in certain cases/issues. I will get it, just have to give myself time and practice and get myself a whip.

 

[FurstPlaceMiniatures]

A ton of awesome advice already! I have my own opinion on parelli, but that's not the point. My guy did that too. However, it was most definitely an "fu I'm not doing it reaction." It sounds backwards, but what worked for us was to back him up at a trotting pace and not being polite about asking. Works wonders for blatant disrespect situations on a dominant horse. Keep working with your trainer and don't worry. It will come!