Lethal White positive

[Loren&Rocky]

I know there are many Lethal white overo positive stallions out there but was just wondering if there is a live foal guarantee for the mare owners on them knowing that the foals could be a OLWS? (Out of OLWS mares too, but they don't come with a LFG usually) Or if someone wanted to breed their overo mare to a OLWS positive stallion is there still the live foal guarantee?

I know that in the big horse world they seem to hide the fact that the stallions might be OLWS carriers. Mini stallion owners seem to flaunt it. I would rather be told then not actually.

I know the frame oveo color pattern is very desirable, but through OLWS seems a big risky to me.

Just wondering about the LFG on them.

For the record, I know nothing about it really, I was just wondering. Not meaning to start a big debate or anything.

 

[minimule]

Since I own a LWO+ stallion, personally I won't even breed a mare that is a carrier. Some breeders will because it is only a 25% chance the foal will be lethal. To me, that's too big of a chance. To avoid that chance....I won't cover that mare.

IF the stallion is bred to a LWO-, yes, I'll give a LFG.

This is just ME and my breeding program.

 

[Meavey]

Well any good breeder knows you should not breed two LWO carriers together so this would not be an issue.

If I would have an LWO positive stallion I would not accept LWO positive mares and would want a color test done on every mare that could and/or looks that she might carry it, before I even accept the mare for breeding.

 

[Loren&Rocky]

Years ago I had a maxium white palomino overo stallion. Both of his parents were overos. If I kept him as a stallion I would have had him tested. He was so white that I think he would have tested positive. I had him gelded at 3.

Cheyenne Saamis:

 

[Meavey]

The amount of white has noting to do with being LWO positive, horses with no markings at all have been tested to carry LWO, or like Minimule´s stallion whom just has a small snip and is LWO positive.

Are you sure your horse wasn´t a double dilute?

 

[Loren&Rocky]

The amount of white has noting to do with being LWO positive, horses with no markings at all have been tested to carry LWO, or like Minimule´s stallion whom just has a small snip and is LWO positive.

Are you sure your horse wasn´t a double dilute?

You are right about the color not being an indacator. Sorry about that. Like I said, I know almost nothing about it. :bgrin He had definate palomino markings but was a medicine hat, so they were on the top of his head, on his chest, and on the top of his rump. The markings were very light but more visable when he was wet and the skin under them was mottled black and pink like an appy more then a Paint. His sire was a chestnut and white overo and his dam was a palomino and white overo. Both were minimal white.

 

[Meavey]

Ok then he couldn´t have been a double dilute.

:

But you also have splash overo´s and those can be bred to frame without any trouble.

Only 2 frame overo´s (frame is always LWO), are at risk when they are bred to eachother, you can breed an LWO postive to a splash, tobiano, or wathever color, without any risks, just make sure it´s LWO negative.

Cause a 25% chance of a lethal foal is 25% to much IMO.

:

 

[Loren&Rocky]

Ok then he couldn´t have been a double dilute.

:

But you also have splash overo´s and those can be bred to frame without any trouble.

Only 2 frame overo´s (frame is always LWO), are at risk when they are bred to eachother, you can breed an LWO postive to a splash, tobiano, or wathever color, without any risks, just make sure it´s LWO negative.

Cause a 25% chance of a lethal foal is 25% to much IMO.

:

That clears it up a LOT!!!! Thank you. I totally get it now. :aktion033:

 

[Tapestry Minis]

I hope this make sense as my brain thinks faster than my fingers can type.....sometimes what I say even confuses me.... :lol:

I too own a LWO+stallion and would have to say with the definition of LFG being that you would breed back if the foal does not stand and nurse after a certain period of time or being still born that you would re breed.

I would not breed back the same stallion to the same mare if the foal produced was Lethal White. I would not breed a LWO+ mare to a LWO+ stallion in the first place, but if it is unknown by the mare owner and not viable or even a question by known LWO+ bloodlines that the mare could be a possible carrier. Then the pairing produces a Lethal White again I would not breed back.

It's hard to ask this question generally though as it may vary by each stallion owner. Some may re breed and others not. Also the terms of each LFG may vary from stallion to stallion. Hope this helps

:

 

[Loren&Rocky]

I thought that if a stallion was positive ALL his foals had a chance for OWLS. Now I know better. :aktion033:

 

[Becky]

I wouldn't breed my LWO stallion to any mare that wasn't LWO negative! The percentage of getting a frame overo foal is the same bred to a non carrier, so why risk the heartbreak of a LWO foal?

If I were going to breed an outside mare, she would have to be lab tested LWO negative first.

I also wanted to add that yes, I advertise my stallion, McSperitts Rowdy Night Image as being LWO. It takes an LWO horse to sire/produce those beautiful frame overo foals, so it's important to know who they are!

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I do not own a LWO animal at present.

If I owned a LWO stallion all pinto mares would be tested.

There is absolutely NO way I would even consider breeding a mare that had not been tested, end of story.

So a LFG would not be relevant.

In the unfortunate occurrence of an accidental breeding of unknown animals- and accepting that some mares (or stallions) might be so minimal (as Rowdy was ) to not have incurred testing- a LFG would not be effective as the foal could stand and nurse in theory.

Were you to be unlucky enough to have this happen I would expect most stallion owners would do something to help out as an act of good faith, but there would be no legal requirement.

 

[Tapestry Minis]

I thought that if a stallion was positive ALL his foals had a chance for OWLS. Now I know better. :aktion033:

The LWO gene on it's own is not lethal....it is in it's homozygous form (two copies one from each parent) that it is lethal. A positive carrier needs another positive carrier and BOTH have to thow the LWO gene. It is not JUST the stallion or the mare is has to be both together. Same with your homozygous pintos, or double dilutes.....they carry a copy from each parent.....all though the others do not have the deadly result as LWOS.

This is why some breeders, if it is known that both stallion and mare are carriers, will not breed the two.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I can't for the life of me see why they would do that- surely no reputable breeder would take such an awful, horrible chance???

 

[Becky]

On the other hand there are some willing to take that chance for the greater possiblity of a frame overo foal.

Then they obviously don't know anything about genetics! You have a 50% chance of getting LWO (heterozygous) when breeding LWO to non LWO. 50% chance of non LWO

Breeding LWO to LWO gives you a 50% chance of getting LWO (heterozygous), 25% chance of non LWO and 25% lethal (homozygous).

So why take the chance breeding LWO to LWO????

I can't for the life of me see why they would do that- surely no reputable breeder would take such an awful, horrible chance???

I know of plenty of other breeders that do this and I think it's because they don't understand the genetics!!!!

 

[Tapestry Minis]

So why take the chance breeding LWO to LWO????

I honestly could not tell you as I do not follow those practices.

 

[jbrat]

ok I figured out LFG what does the LWO and Owls stand for?? ( only owls I know are birds,lol)

Thanks.

 

[vvf]

We also will not breed a LWO positive stallion to a LWO positive mare. We feel the risk is just too high.

Here’s an example that we had recently, this is a little off track from the original question, but it goes to show how nice it is to have a test for lwo.

…..we have a few appaloosa mares and had bought a young stallion prospect to breed to those mares in a few years.

I got to thinking about the pedigree on this young stallion because his dam is sired by a line of well known overo horses………so I thought it best that I have him tested for LWO, just in case I would decide to use him on some of my non-appaloosa mares ….sure enough, he tests positive for LWO.

So I will be very careful which mares he will be bred to.

The bottom line is, there really is no excuse for breeding lwo to lwo, the test is only $25, and the results can be e-mailed to you in about 1 week. Pretty reasonable, for peace of mind.

 

[chandab]

ok I figured out LFG what does the LWO and Owls stand for?? ( only owls I know are birds,lol)

Thanks.

LWO is Lethal White Overo (Frame), I'm not sure why it is sometimes referred to as OWLS; but LWO and OWLs stand for the same thing in this case.

 

[MBhorses]

Hello,

LWO means Lethal White Overo.

great sites about the LWO.

http://www.equinetesting.com/LWO.htm

http://www.netpets.com/horses/healthspa/lethal.html

http://www.vgl.ucdavis.edu/service/horse/coatcolor.html

http://www.doubledilute.com/lethalwhite.html

http://www.mustangs4us.com/Horse%20Colors/lethal_white.htm

melissa