Pat Parelli "Horsenality" Profiles

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Joanne

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My friend who is a full size horse and miniature horse owners is a huge fan of Parelli techniques.

She has recently loaned me their Horsenality DVD's and I am just starting to learn about Left Brain and Right Brain horses and Introverts and Extroverts.

Are any of you using these techniques on your miniature horses??
 
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I have used Parelli's methods on many of my Dressage horses and training clients with problem horses. I also have started all of my young miniature horses with his ground work. My three year old stallion was very easy to train to drive with this method. I like Parelli because it is just common horse sense and good training technique.
 
Thank you for responding jegray!!

May I ask what length lead rope you are using on the minis. The ones for full size horses look huge!

I was looking at getting one and it seemed like a 12-14 foot would be ample for a miniature.

I am working with a right brain horse and trying to coax him into coming toward me.

Any thoughts would be helpful.

Thank you again for responding.
 
My friend who is a full size horse and miniature horse owners is a huge fan of Parelli techniques.
She has recently loaned me their Horsenality DVD's and I am just starting to learn about Left Brain and Right Brain horses and Introverts and Extroverts.

Are any of you using these techniques on your miniature horses??
Hey Joanne,

I was an Area Coordinator for Parelli years ago and was very involved in that program. If I could share with you the changes that came about that directed me away from the program I would love to, but it would take a book. There are some great ideas like gaining control of the feet, learning how to move your horse effectively, building your program step by step, taking the groundwork seriously and working out your problems there.

But seriously, since I learned about the science of using a marker sound (click) and a food reward I've seen such an improvement in the effectiveness of training ANY horse I've met. And most important, I looked at the horse's actions as just behavior. Really and truly, just analyze WHAT the horse is doing and HOW you can make it easier for the horse to give you what you want.

Terms like Right brained etc. make it easier for humans to label and maybe understand or gain insight, but in the long run, the labels are only just that....labels....and in order to train you need to have an effective idea of how to break down behavior into trainable goals.

Hope this helps....just was hoping to weigh in the proverbial 2 cents worth of another perspective.
 
Hi all. I do use the Parelli methods as well as clicker training and some John Lyons as well. I have also had a lot of hunter/jumper training in my background, as well as some dressage. I am an eclectic sort.

I do think there is a lot of wisdom in some of their stuff. The best thing, THE BEST, is that it gives you a ton of ideas of ways to play with your horse on the ground and not just riding. The Liberty and Horse Behavior course in a box is really good. Having spent my whole life studying horses, there were some subtleties that Linda points out that really made me think about things a bit differently. She has become a magnificent student of horse body language. This is valuable information no matter what training method you use.

I definitely use clicker training, piggybacked onto whatever method I am using. I also use the clicker training ideas of breaking things down into very small steps and training one criteria at a time.

I guess I am still thinking and experimenting with a range of training ideas. My biggest issue with clicker training is that it is supposed to be a training tool and the click is supposed to be faded out over time as a behavior is learned, but that is not how I see most clicker trainers use it. That is not to say that a horse loses a chance to earn treats, it should just get them for "new" learning and behaviors, instead of those it already knows. I am seeing some new work coming from this area that shows horses being rewarded for doing a new behavior by giving them a cue to do a behavior that already has a strong reinforcement history that is then rewarded. I like this idea a lot and need to think about how that could be expanded. I am also working on some ideas of alternate reinforcements with a different sort of marker signal (Peggy, if you read this, do you use anything like this? It would still work as a terminal bridge, but instead of a food reward would be petting, etc..definitely used on already learned behavior.).

If you are going to the World Show, you have been invited to the Parelli Celebration there. It would be very well worth it to attend if you can. The cost to other people is, I think, $99 for the show. I do think there is a lot to be learned. Just put the info in your toolbox, and don't throw the rest away if it is working for you. ;) More than anything, I love the way they bring the horses up into collection gradually, and they do have a very good way to teach this to people in a way that seems non-threatening. Going from Freestyle to Finesse with a soft touch, a soft feel, all very good stuff. I am working on this, overlaid with the clicker work, in teaching my riding horse. I am also studying the work of Karen Rohlf, who stems nicely off of the Parelli program. I think the Parelli program has made HUGE progress in the past few years since they started learning more with the help of dressage master, Walter Zettl. There is plenty to be learned in the program for people who are drivers, if you care to take the time to adapt it. It is there, if you look for it.
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I liked to watch Parelli on RFD-tv when I had satellite. But I never really understood his technique and alot of his stuff that I saw were in the saddle, so wasn't real helpful when it comes to the minis. Maybe if I looked into it more it may change my mind.

What I use is methods from Clinton Anderson "Downunder Horsemanship". I really understand what he says, understand his techniques, and there are alot of exercises to do on the ground that these minis can do. Heck he has 3 groundwork DVDs plus others that are helpful with these minis, and they do work.

Anyways thats who I use. Good luck!
 
Excellent post, ClickMini! Very well said. Personally, I like Parelli--I know there are many critics--but it makes sense to me and I have had great success with it, especially with my riding horse who had some issues when I bought him. I really like the Horsenality theories. I have six horses, two of which are minis, and understanding the different types has helped me address their training issues from different perspectives. I have done the clicker training with my minis and still do use it, but I don't like having to carry around treats to train. (That is my one gripe about the clicker training.)

When working with my minis I use a 10' line much of the time. The 12' is just a bit too long for me and the snap is just too darn heavy. Parelli has definitely helped people have a new view of horses--you don't have to ride to have fun with them. Liberty work is so much fun and I agree that they have given people great ideas of how to have FUN with your horse on the ground.
 
Thank you all for your comments and sharing your experiences. This is all very helpful!

I have had miniatures for 17 years now, and raised Macaws for 30 years, dogs all my life and have done a lot of training (professional and personal) with all of them.

I am always skeptical and have been slow to look at Parelli. I agree that the "horsinalities" can help us by labeling the traits. I have some issues with there being four times the negative traits to the positive traits. I do not think I had looked at horses quite that way. I find Linda's teaching superior to Pat's methods.

Many of the techniques of the "in vogue" trainers make are common sense; and many, if you are a long time horse person, you have used along the way. Horses are each unique and what works on one may need to be modified for the next one.

Silver Dollar, thank you for your suggestion of the 10 foot line. I am working with a two year old that I am trying to get to move forward toward me. He is a newcommer and I know to move slow until he feels safe.

We are not treat people. We like the horses to associate our hands with grooming and pleasure giving, but not food. We have too many kids through our ranch and have always discouraged the visitors from feeding treats. Mostly afraid the visitors could get bitten.

Silver Dollar are you using the 10 foot yacht rope leads? These seem to be easy on your hands. Where did you find it ?
 
Joanne, I use the yacht rope that I found at a marine supply store (I live near many ocean communities). I love the feel of the yachting ropes and they are definitely easier on the hands. I rarely wear gloves as I like the ability to "feel" the rope and my horse.

One thing that was invaluable about the clicker training is that I taught my horses the "leave it" command. That has been the most helpful training! I do feed treats occasionally by hand but my horses learned not to grab at hands with food in them (and not to ever grab at hands), so when told to "leave it", they turn their heads away. Only then do they get their treats. If there are children around and they are getting too close to their faces for my comfort level, I can say "leave it" and they will back away.

I agree with you that Linda's teaching is superior to Pat's. He's rather arrogant. I don't agree with everything they do or say, but all in all I have found that the structure works well for me and my horses. I'm always open to other teachers and feel I can learn something from every one of them.
 
Jumping in....Timing is everything when it comes to training animals so no matter if you are using a clicker or using another training system it is the actually reward or correction that teaches them what it is you are looking for. So in response to the length of rope. Start out close so that your timing is good and then increase the distance as you guys get better and the horse starts to understand your ques.

If you are not used to training animals learning the clicker and timing and treat can be complicated. Release of pressure and applying pressure tends to be less confusing and easier to pick up on.

The labels are a good way to learn what it is you are looking at when observing your horses responses to your behavior. I like that it helps horse owners to veiw the horses behavior has a response to something instead of bad or good.

Either system the more time you spend understanding your horse the stronger your relationship and the happier the animal is.
 
We are located in Northern California two miles from the ocean, and we have a fishing village in the harbor.

I will check with the local marine supply places and see what they have. Are you using 1/2 inch rope or?

How are you attaching the rope to the halter?

Thanks.
 
I absolutely ADORE the parelli method. I have been to last year's Savvy Conference in Pagosa Springs, CO, and this year I went to the Reno Celebration. I have the level 1 pack, the success series, and the new online, liberty, freestyle, and finesse patterns. I also work with a lot of riding horses, which is why I have all the riding info, and am also a Savvy Club member.

My belief is it really isn't a horse training program, it is a PEOPLE training program. It is built to make you a better horseman. All I ever do with any horse I work with is Parelli. It is about putting the relationship between horse and human first, and that's what I love about it. The transformation i have seen it make in horses is amazing, including all of my own.

It is the ultimate way to train your horse....... The thing is, it isn't for everyone.... If you care about putting the relationship first, it is perfect. But if you want a quick fix or don't want to stick with the program, might as well move on to something more technique oriented, such as Clinton Anderson or something.

ANYWAY - back to the original question about Horsenality profiles - this discovery is really one of the most beneficial tools any horse person can ever have. It is a great way to understand any horse, and approach handling it accordingly. First thing I do before trying to accomplish anything with a horse is evaluate its horsenality. It explains sooooo much about each horse's behavior.

Oh and as for ropes, I have a 10" rope I use in the beginning of working with each mini, or just leading around the barn. I like it because it is thinner and lighter on little mini faces, I got it at a local tack shop. For the biggies I usually use the 12". Then for more advanced work for both bigs and minis or problem horses, I have a 22" line and I have recently started using the 45" line on my mini mare Ghost, as we work towards getting our level 3/4 audition sent in.
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Off to the barn, got lots of horses to play with!
 
I guess to each its own. I don't think its a quick fix when it comes to C.A., I also feel more bonded with my new gelding then I had before I worked with him, he is alot more quieter, alot more smarter, alot more respectful. Not that he was really that bad to begin with but you can tell he improved. I do think it takes time to get to the point where C.A. has done with his horses, it takes alot of work. But I have seen it pay off when I saw his horse Mindy run around out there watching his every move at liberty, I would love for my horse to do that, just alot of hard work, but I will try.
 
It is great to see that many of you are putting a lot of thought in to training your miniatures.

There have been many advances in training horses over the last decade and fun to see that they are being embraced by the horse community.
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I think one of the reasons Parelli works is that they are ground training based and since we do not ride miniatures, it can be a helpful tool.
 
I started focusing on ground work after a bad accident and I could not ride my gelding for seven months

I got my minis to keep me occupied and have them to thank for my mental health! Without riding horses I was so lost...the Parelli and my minis kept me working twords recovery and in briter spirits...

I did find that it helped my minis step into their cart training and ground driving with no issues. All that time with them sure paid off..lol.
 
I definitely use clicker training, piggybacked onto whatever method I am using. I also use the clicker training ideas of breaking things down into very small steps and training one criteria at a time.

I guess I am still thinking and experimenting with a range of training ideas. My biggest issue with clicker training is that it is supposed to be a training tool and the click is supposed to be faded out over time as a behavior is learned, but that is not how I see most clicker trainers use it. That is not to say that a horse loses a chance to earn treats, it should just get them for "new" learning and behaviors, instead of those it already knows. I am seeing some new work coming from this area that shows horses being rewarded for doing a new behavior by giving them a cue to do a behavior that already has a strong reinforcement history that is then rewarded. I like this idea a lot and need to think about how that could be expanded. I am also working on some ideas of alternate reinforcements with a different sort of marker signal (Peggy, if you read this, do you use anything like this? It would still work as a terminal bridge, but instead of a food reward would be petting, etc..definitely used on already learned behavior.).

There is a GREAT expert on clicker training named Ken Ramirez. I would research his work if you can. He has a wealth of info on using Secondary reinforcers in the training program. It really is complicated, but think of it this way, if your horse accepts a scratch as a reward, then yes, it can be used in place of food. The problem is I see sooo many people think their horses will work for scratching (or whatever is programmed as the reward) when in truth, their horse's aren't really that interested in being scratched. In other words you've got to offer the animal something it WANTS.

I have actually used "applause" as a reinforcer, but it takes a long time to build the association. I also use the horse's name and a variety of other things as well.

AND yes, the cue for a really well established behavior can serve as a reinforcer.

Knowing how and when with this part of Operant conditioning is, in and of itself, an artform.

Just food for thought. People (not you) say "we need to fade out the food" as a tool in the training, but then they're perfectly content to use any 'pressure" on leads, bits, or whatever to accomplish what they want.

In other words, if I were to ask someone, "when are you going to quit using the lead line to get your horse to walk through this parade route" they would probably look at me as if I were nuts. The use of the lead and the pressure/correction/instruction/cues are all things people readily accept as ways of getting behavior. But it's the same with positive reinforcement and the click. Once the behavior is established I don't click as much, but if I were going to be in a more novel or stressful environment, I would click and pay more frequently, just as someone holding the lead rope would use it to communicate with their horse.

Anyway....just love talking about combining all the available tools out there. Thanks so much for jumping into the topic and posting.
 
It is wonderful to read all your comments about your training ideas.

There are a lot of theories on horses and how to train them. Horses are certainly not all the same and each one has nuances that need to be addressed.

Thank you all for sharing your experiences. This has been enlightening to me, and I am sure many others.
 
Joanne, I know this is a little bit of a thread hi-jack! All of these things are inter-related though; the Parelli program is definitely built from a base of training theory/behavior.

Peggy, are you going to Clicker Expo in January? Would love to meet up with you. I will have to look into Ken Ramirez stuff more. Another person who is working with secondary reinforcers is Jesus Rosales-Ruiz, his collaboration with Alexandra Kurland on the Poisoned Cues video is absolutely fascinating. I have to say that video really opened my eyes about correct cue development. No matter WHAT training method a person is using, I HIGHLY recommend viewing this video. Lesson 14: The Poisoned Cue -- http://www.theclickercenter.com/2004/store/vids00.php At least if a behavior is falling apart, you can begin to understand what may be happening and how you might correct it.
 
Go ahead and hijack the thread Amy. I am totally fine with learning all these concepts.

It is wonderful to read all your comments and thoughts about techniques. Makes me wish there was a place on the forum just for different training techniques to be discussed!

There is so much to learn and each horse has their own special needs. It is certainly not a one size fits all situation.

I am also very happy that some people that do not normally post on LB were willing to post on this thread!
 
Yes, i use natural horsemanship with both my minis.

My mom has used clicker training a little bit with them but not so much, we havnt gotten in to that, clicker training doesnt interest me. haha
 

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