PMC Rules

[Karen S]

Good Morning All,

This is a cross post from some of our other Miniature & Shetlands boards discussing the PMC classes and requirements. This is the entire post. Please post your thoughts whether your agree or disagree. Lea is trying to get some idea on how you view this. A new proposal was presented at the 2006 convention with help from a legel expert on wording and to date, she said, no word from the BOD or the author who originally wrote the updated PMC rules.

Here is the original post:

Fw: Re: [ClassicShetlands] ReMC CLass rule changes..cross posting

--- In [email protected], "Ceci Graham-Widby"

<creaturecomfort@...> wrote:

>

> This is an old email with the accepted disabilities...I am cleaning

out my

> inbox and found it. ) If anything has changed please advise.

> Warm fuzzies,

> Ceci

>

> -------Original Message-------

>

> From: modelmare1@...

> Date: 04/11/06 13:53:49

> To: [email protected]

> Subject: Re: [ClassicShetlands] ReMC CLass rule changes

>

> For those of you who requested the changes to be listed to the

boards...

> This is what the new changes are for the PMC

requirements................

>

> I do commend the board and Dolores for splitting the classes for

Youth and

> Adult. (Thank you)..

>

>

> Section III, Part 17, A-Physically & Mentally Challenged Classes,

Page 61

> Insert at the end of Part A: PMC classes may be split for Youth

and Adults.

> Part 17, A,2,a

> Delete: In order to show in the Physically/Mentally Challenged (PMC)

> Division, exhibitors must have a disability. Exhibitors who are not

> disabled may not show in this division.

> Insert:

> a. In order to show in the Physically/Mentally Challenged (PMC)

Division,

> exhibitors must have a doctor diagnosed/permanent disability.

Exhibitors

> who are not disabled may not show in this division. For

Participation in

> the PMC approved events, exhibitors must be diagnosed with and

provide proof

> of one of the following conditions:

>

> Amputation Hunter’s

Syndrome

> Anthrogryposis Juvenile

Rheumatiod

> Arthris

> Asperger’s Syndrome Mental Retardation

> Autism

Microcephaly

> Batten’s Disease Multiple

Sclerosis

> Cebvrovascular Accident (Stroke) Muscular Dystrophy

> Cerebella Ataxia Post Polio

Syndrome

> Cerebral Palsy Prader Willie

Syndrome

> Coffin Lowry Syndrome Rhett Syndrome

> Cystic Fibrosis Spina Bifida

> Dwarfism Spinal Cord

Injury

> Fragile X Syndrome Touretts Syndrome

> Freidrick’s Ataxia Traumatic

Brain Injury

> Guillan Barre Syndrome Visual Impairment

> Hearling Impairment

>

> Other diagnosis will be considered upon request.

>

> The following disorders are not eligible for PMC participation:

>

> ADHA Eating

Disorders

> Anxiety Disorders Fibromyalgia

> Chronic Fatigue Syndrome Learning Disabilities

> Depression Psychological

Diagnosis

> Dyslexia

>

> In the case of adult exhibitors, each participant assumes all risk

of

> personal injury or property damage and releases and discharges the

> corporation and show management, their respective officers,

directors,

> representatives, and employees, from any and all liability,

whenever or

> however arising, as to personal injury or property damage occurring

as a

> result of participation in these events.

>

> If the exhibitor is a minor, the parent or guardian, by allowing

> participation, assumes all risk of personal injury or property

damage

> occurring as the result of the participation and does hereby

release and

> discharge the corporation and show management, their respective

officers,

> directors, representatives, and employees, from any and all

liability,

> whenever or however arising from such participation, except for the

willful

> or wanton act or omission, if any, of those who are indemnified.

Further,

> as parent o legal guardian, they agree to indemnify and hold

harmless the

> corporation and show management from such liability to the minor.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

New post from Lea Dill, pulled from the Classic Shetland list:

Requiring exhibitors to have a PMC card sounds like a good solution

to me, but what about the costs? Would the home office do this for

free? Especially since the rule book "recommends" that PMC classes be

free. (Not that I necessarily believe it should be free - just

wondering??) Sounds like a good option from the legal standpoint as

well, because they would need to state & sign that they have a

disability (not necessarily name it) and certify that they understand

the safety issues, etc. that are involved . . . etc. etc. etc.

Hi Michelle and Readers,

My concern on this whole issue is the fact that the rules have listed

eligible and ineligible conditions. We the show mangers or maybe the

office (the rule is not clear who determines) are the judge and jury

as to what condition is eligible and what is not. This is where I

have a problem with the rule. My opinion is we cannot identify

eligibility as we are not medical professionals nor is anyone in the

ASPC.. With the existing policy as it stands we are liable for

discrimination disputes.

I would like your opinion on this question?

1. What is your feeling on NOT being allowed to cross enter? If you

are PMC then you cannot cross enter open classes? If the argument is

then not enough classes for PMC -- then we add more optional's.

Shows will add optional classes at a show if requested and used by

the exhibitor.

2. Legally Blind -- should they be in driving classes? I don't feel

they should. This is the sort of restrictions that the PMC COMMITTEE

be should concerned about. If your legally blind and not allowed to

drive a car - how can you drive a HORSE? AND please don't tell me

your horse is your seeing eye (dog), please don't go there.

3. Hearing Impaired // for those who wear hearing aids and CAN EAR -

- should they be considered PMC? I don't feel they should. What

about exhibitors that claims PMC due to hearing impaired but wear

earring aids in order to hear but go in every open class and amateur

class and come out Hi Point for the weekend. NOW, I know they can

HEAR as they stand at the counter and ask questions and my back is

turned to them and they hear me answer. (EARING IMPAIRED IS LISTED

AS A DISABILITY BUT LEARING DISABILITIES IS NOT -- THIS MAKES NO

SENSE, if you have a earring aid and can hear with it, are you

disabled?) This is where I say you make a choice PMC or OPEN. If you

should be PMC and then able to go OPEN -- then present the doctor

statement you are no longer PMC and want to switch. But cannot

switch back and forth in a show season more then once. Just as we

cannot switch from Amateur to PRO then back to AMATEUR within the

year / show season.

4. FREE PMC CLASSES -- I have one question -- WHY? Why does PMC

exhibitors get free classes or reduced classes and I don't? If for

some reason my income is limited because I am PMC -- should I be

showing? SOME THINGS IN LIFE YOU JUST CAN'T AFFORD TO DO AND MAYBE

SPENDING YOUR MONEY ON HORSE SHOWS IS ONE OF THEM. BUT THIS GOES FOR

ALL OF US, NOT JUST PMC??????????

THIS SUGGESTED FREE CLASSES FOR PMC MAKES NO SENSE TO ME AT ALL -

ESPECIALLY WHEN PMC CAN CROSS ENTER AND AFFORD THE OPEN CLASSES?

MANY OF US COULD CLAIM FINACIAL HARDSHIPS -- AND STILL WANT TO SHOW

OUR HORSES. WHERE DO I STAND IN LINE TO PLEAD MY CASE IN ORDER FOR

ME TO GET FREE OR REDUCED CLASS FEES?? I realize this is a personal

decision on the part of the show for any class fees.. But to list

this as part of our rules as a suggestion is not what I agree with....

This is my opinion and I feel it should be one way or the other not

both and I am not going to be the one to make the judgement call on

whom is PMC and who not... These rules are not being in-forced as we

really cannot and do not police them as it stands and the PMC

Committee whoever they are -- are ignoring my concerns as are my

directors. I ask "WHY HAVE IT SO COMPLICATED"?

Please remember these are my opinions and I am NOT personally

attacking anyone who is or is not PMC, so please come back with your

opinions to enlighten me if you disagree or agree. Thanks

Nor~ Lea Shelties of New York and Nor~Lea Miniatures

 

[kaykay]

there was a lot of discussion on this a few months back on the yahoo group. I know show managers are really against this and I do understand why. I also think its risky to specifically state what illness counts as a disability and what doesnt. It puts too much burden and liability on the show managers.

I also dont agree with pmc classes being free. I would think if any classes were free it should be youth classes.

 

[Minimor]

But if the rules specify which impairments are allowed and which are not allowed, does that not make it easier for the show committee?? If the doctor's certificate states that the exhibitor has cerebral palsy...the show committee can read that and say yes, that's on our list of allowable impairments. Likewise if the certificate says "dyslexia" the show officials can say sorry, that does not count for PMC classes. Without the specific lists, it would end up being entirely up to show management if an exhibitor is allowed to show or not. The person with dyslexia might get to show today, but next weekend another show committee will tell him sorry, you don't qualify for PMC. I think that would result in many more problems. Even with a doctor's certificate being required, if all that certificate has to say is "This patient has a disability", you are going to end up having people enter when they really do not qualify for PMC. Remember that most doctors are non-horse people, and if a person goes to their family doctor and asks for a certificate for some disability, chances are the doctor will issue it without much question. All the exhibitor has to say is "I need a certificate stating I have a disability, you don't have to be specific, just a general disability statement is all I require...yes doctor, for horse showing dyslexia is considered a disability and qualifies me for the PMC division."

Should hearing impairment count for PMC? Simply needing hearing aids wouldn't necessarily get a person into PMC would it? Surely there is a difference between needing hearing aids and being extremely hearing impaired? People who are severely impaired may be able to hear with aids in a one on one conversation, but out in the ring loudspeaker announcements may not be able to be heard--loudspeakers can garble words for those of us with normal hearing!--I would hope that most people that simply wear hearing aids wouldn't even think about going into the PMC classes on that basis, but regardless I don't think it's fair to exclude all hearing impairments. There are some people so hearing impaired that they have trouble coping in an open class where no allowances were made for their impairment.

Legally blind in driving classes; I'd hate to see them barred from driving. Keep in mind that legally blind doesn't mean entirely blind, there is still some vision, limited as it may be. There is a big difference from driving a car--where speed is much greater and reflexes must be very fast--then in driving a horse around an arena. Perhaps the rule should allow them to show in driving, but only with a passenger riding in the cart/buggy with them--the passenger is at hand to give directions/warnings that, combined with the driver's limited vision, should enable the driver to safely maneuver through a class.

I actually didn't realize that the PMC classes have no entry fees. In thinking about it though I'm not sure that the idea of free entry fees is because the PMC exhibitors can't afford to pay entry fees? Isn't it more an encouragement thing, to get people to get out & have some fun in the ring? Some people might not think of trying it otherwise, but if the class is offered & it's no additional cost, you'll almost certainly get someone offering a their horse to a disabled friend to take out into a class & have a try at showing. Is that a bad thing? I have my doubts that a few PMC classes with no entry fees put a financial burden on any show. ( I would disagree that it should be youth and not PMC that is free entry.)

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

there was a lot of discussion on this a few months back on the yahoo group. I know show managers are really against this and I do understand why. I also think its risky to specifically state what illness counts as a disability and what doesnt. It puts too much burden and liability on the show managers.

I also dont agree with pmc classes being free. I would think if any classes were free it should be youth classes.

In talking to my director and others who put on shows the feeling seemed to be that there were some taking advantage and saying things like Oh my knee I had surgery so I qualify, I have asthma so I qualify, I have tennis elbow so I qualify.

I honestly find it odd and hard to believe that people would take advantage of a PMC class be it for a free class or a title or ribbon however from those I have talked to and my director many people seem to be feeling this is the case.

I would think the specifications make it pretty easy and very black or white and do agree that there should be a card, let the office take the medical notes and keep them on file and that really takes the pressure off of any show managment

 

[Jill]

For what it's worth --

I agree that there should be doctors documentation that the disability is permanent (ie, not an injury or something along those lines).

ALWAYS, I have felt it's really dangerous for someone who is legally blind to drive at a show.

I would not like to see it so that PMC participants are unable to go in open classes... Just like can't a youth show in open? I don't think someone qualifying for PMC should have to choose PMC or open, but should be able to do both if they wish.

The classes should not be free in my opinion.

I feel the PMC classes are such a nice outlet for many people, yet I also feel a few abuse it.

Jill

 

[disneyhorse]

I recently put on an AMHR/ASPC show and offered PMC classes. As recommended by the Rule Book, they were free.

I do not feel that there is enough demand/numbers/problems with the class to really be super strict. We only had one exhibitor show in our classes and I was glad to support these classes... part of the draw for our "small equine" is that they really are wonderful for ALL people of ALL ages and abilities to show and enjoy. If anything, it is great for other exhibitors to see these classes. Even at Nationals, the classes are not that large.

I personally DO feel that legally blind people should NOT drive horses. It is dangerous enough to drive unimpaired, but having a horse hooked to a vehicle is potentially dangerous and you need all your facilities to help prevent a wreck (or a worse wreck) in those split seconds it happens.

I think the current rules in place are fair and I support them.

Andrea

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

But andrea I have been to shows where the classes are LARGE like 8-10 in a class and it is wonderful and a great thing for them however I have also heard people say things like I have asthma, or I had knee surgery, or I am obese, or I am depressed and these are only things I have heard people say and feel they should be able to show in PMC classes for so I am sure many others have heard those things and many more that the majority of us surely would not consider PMC

It must be an issue for show managers since it seems to be brought up alot. I sure would not want to spend time at a show arguing with someone if there bi-polar was reason to allow them into PMC or not or whatever they are saying. Would be much easier if the office took care of it accepted or denied it and offered them there card even if the card was 5 bucks for a lifetime

 

[lyn_j]

As a former PMC exhibitor, I have never been to a show where my classes were free. As far as kustubg wgat disabilities are, I think a drs letter should suffice because, in medical comunities, there is a right to privacy law where illness and disabilities are not to be disclose for confidentiality reasons.

I was a legally blind competetor, I had a very narrow field of vision but I could see what was in front of me. I couldnt make out faces but I knew if I was running into something or someone. I always drove extremely well trained horses and I was completely confident in our abilities. IF I would not have been I would not have shown.I still may not have enough peripheral vision to get a drivers license again but I can see well enough to read a normal sized computer and can readily identify people and objects. I will not show in pmc classes this year because I feel that my normal central vision disqualifies me from that. I will be back in amateur and open classes this year.I drove in some open classes if they were small when I could not see well at all and if people didnt know me they would not have known I was legally blind.

If you have good skills and a great horse there is no reason NOT to compete.

Lyn

 

[Margo_C-T]

I do not think PMC classes should be free; I also do not think that anyone who is legally blind should be driving in a class situation--for all the reasons already well-stated by others!

I do agree that having a card issued by the breed registry, similarly to an Amateur card, might be a good idea. Perhaps to obtain one, certain parameters could be decided upon--for instance, a certificate from a licensed MD which, while it might not be totally specific about the medical details(all those privacy rules, you know), WOULD contain a statement to the effect that the named person's disability is one that is at least presumed to be 'permanent' AND genuinely a disablity, according to national/international accepted standard-and not an temp. injury, a chronic but not truly disabling condition or some 'supposed', 'flavor-of-the-month' condition that someone chooses to label as a disability. If a doctor would need to sign a well-constructed document which includes some/all of the above, he/she *might* think twice before doing it for just anyone who requested it....I certainly think it would be worth the effort on the part of the registries to try such an approach.

Though I have somewhat mixed feelings about it, I can see no cause to prevent those who enter PMC classes to also be able, safety permitting, to also enter Open classes.

Margo

 

[disneyhorse]

Okay well wait... I totally agree with what Margo just posted

:

Andrea

 

[Mercysmom]

Just a thought... what do the Special Olympics use as criteria?

I was an aide for a mentally challenged adult in a youth-learner show and this adult needed to have an aide to talk her through the obstacle course and to guide her in setting up the mare she was showing. This adult is a Special Olympian gymnast and was thrilled to be able to show a horse like her younger sister (who showed big horse hunters).

I am an insulin dependent diabetic (have been so for almost 18 years and have been on a pump), have chronic depression (medicated), asthma and am going for knee operation #3. I do not consider myself physically challenged although diabetes is considered a disability according to my social worker. I just have had a few speed bumps in the road of life and that makes me more determined to be at the top of my game, regardless - PMC classes were for my friend's daughter who was really challenged by her condition (a dwarfism syndrome that causes mental disabilities - the name of the syndrome escapes me at the moment - an elfin syndrome if I remember right).

Good definitions of the rules is a must, which is why I inquired about the Special Olympics criteria. Also from an insurance standpoint, I would guess those good definitions are important for the saftey of all.

Just my two cents!

:

Denise

Silversong Farm

 

[angel_cowgirl]

I confess I have not read the whole section of the AMHR rulebook that discusses PMC classes (because I haven't been to an AMHR show in a few years) but I do have some opinions about what I've read here.

First of all, as a legally blind person, I thank the 2 people who wrote about legally blind not being where one can not see anything. Many people who are legally blind have pretty darn good vision, considering. And as a person who is legally blind I would be really upset if someone told me I could not drive a horse because of that disability. I think it should be up to the exhibitor (or parent in the case of a minor) if they feel they have the ability to do such a thing. I understand there are safety issues and if I felt like I was going to harm other perticipants or my self or horse I would not show in such a class. For instances, I PERSNOALLY, am hesitate to show in large driving classes (10+) because I know my current limitations. However, in the Special Needs classes (AMHA) that I have been in recently the number of exhibitors is so minimal that I don't see it as a risk. There is plenty of space to put between me and the other exhibitors, etc. Moreover, I know that it probably would not work well for me and someone else to ride in a cart, the type of cart that is used most of the time, but if I felt like I needed an accomodation like a 2-way radio where someone could talk to me but I could only hear them, I would ask for it. That type of accomodation would at least help me know if there was an impending safety situation. I also think it would be completely discrimitory to tell a legally blind person they can show in a PMC halter class but not in driving (for example). I could say much more on this topic, but for now I'll leave it at this.

Secondly, I can not comprehend the reasoning behind telling someone they can show in PMC and not Open (???). That just sounds so rediculous to me. If someone wants to show in as many classes as everyone else, if they feel they have the ability to, then by golly let them. Like someone else said, whats the difference in that and Youth showing in Open, or for the sake of argument whats the difference in that and Amateurs showing in Open? Open is just that, suppose to be OPEN to everyone.

Third, I can't see why PMC classes should be free. Especially if there are going to be awards for the classes, like year end registry awards and such. However, I do feel that because of the nature of the class and the lack of participation generally, that those type of classes should not cost more than that of Youth or Amateur classes. I mean if you think about it, its the Youth and Amateurs showing in those classes - how many professionals are going to show in the class for the heck of it?

Next, I haven't seen the issue of people trying to be in the class that shouldn't technically be in the class, and I really can't understand why someone would. But I can see where that would be a concern. However, I feel it is quite limiting to list the disabilities that can show in the division because my question would be how much research was put into finding ALL the permanent disabilities that should be listed? There are a lot of types of disabilities that limit life activities and that sure seems like a short list listed in the rulebook. For instance, I think diabetes should be added to the list. Its a disability that limits life functions and a problem could occur at any time, just like epilepsy (sp?), they may not be things you can see but they're disabilities that (from what I understand about them) are like waiting for a bomb to go off - you just never know when.

I've contemplated (and gone back and forth on) whether I think people should have to have some record at the registry of being disabled (like a card or just a letter on file). And I haven't decided what would be best. On one hand, like some discussed, I think its getting too personal and people shouldn't have to disclose that type of information. Plus, at least at the AMHA shows I attend the most people I see in the Special Needs classes are at World and some of those I would guess at last minute decisions to show. Therefore, I kind of feel like it would be further limiting the number of people who show in the classes (which I have observed to be very small numbers). A good example that I can think of is a girl who's wish with the Make a Wish foundation was to go to a miniature horse show a couple years ago. Long story short, someone ended up giving her a horse in like august or september (obviously right before the World show). She came to the World show just to show this horse in the Special Needs classes. There was no way to know in January that she would have needed to sign a form or get a card, etc.

On the other hand, I can sort of see a reason to have the card, in that 1. you hope people are telling the truth and that they really need to show in the class. and 2. for liability reasons. However, in the case of liability don't most entry forms have some statement about anything happening to a person or horse or something being stolen is not the responsibility of the show facility or registry/club putting on the show? I would think this would cover and should suffice in covering anyone in any and every class at the show.

As for the question about Special Olympics, I don't know much about it and please others jump in. But from the recent little bit of research I did, all I can really say is that even if some concepts were used from their criteria it would only fit half of this division. As special olympics focuses on mental disabilities alone (from what I read), so the whole realm of physical disabilities would still be up for debate.

I hope thats all the issues presented. I got kind of long-winded.

But those are my opinions as an individual with a disability and opinions were asked for.

I do commend AMHR for having some rules about this division. As some recent research I have done, looking to see how much and what other horse associations/registries do for these exhibitors has come up pretty empty. Not many address these important exhibitors and the ones that do generally don't have much to say. AMHA is in the infancy of developing some definitions and we'll soon know how well or not that is going to work.