Question about crossing APHA mare to Miniature stud…

[Hopalong]

Hello! New here, so I hope this is in the correct forum.
I’m looking to breed my overo APHA mare to get a pony and a neighbor has a tobiano mini stud. My concern is lethal white. I’m reading that it’s possible for LWO to hide in tobiano, so I’m wanting to know what is the test called to find out if a horse is LWO+ or -?

 

[Kelly]

I don’t really know a whole lot about breeding, I have all boys. And I really dont know about lethal white and color combining for breeding or the test you are asking about…. But if you bred a full size horse to a mini horse, I really don’t think that equals pony. I think what you would have is something called a “munchkin horse” sorta like the munchkin cats. Have you heard of them?








Good luck!! You’ll have to post pics when the baby gets here if that’s what you decide, I would love to see the little munchkin!!

 

[Taz]

I think the genetic test is just called LWO and is done from hair folicals the same as finding out genetic colour. There are a few placed in the US that are recomended but I can't remember which, someone should come along to tell you. I have heard of some big/small crosses that get something like Kelly said. It's a bit of a gamble on how big a foal will be. They can end up in the middle but can also be big or small depending on what genes they get. If you're OK with that it will be cute no matter what!

 

[LostandFound]

UC davis used to do the test, it's listed in with all their other color tests.

 

[arrelle]

Why on earth would you cross those two? The resulting foal would be ineligible for registration in either breed, and unless you have some bizarre specialty you're trying to create - it reeks of backyard breeding. If you're just going for color, there are enough grade colored horses in the kill pens as is.

- A longtime APHA breeder who is trying to remove the stigma of "breeding solely for color"

 

[elizabeth.conder]

Animal genetics also does the test. I know of people who produced nice pony’s with that type of cross. But no guarantee.

 

[Hopalong]

Thanks to everyone that respectfully answered my question.

 

[Dragon Hill]

I have always heard that you shouldn't bred a full size and a miniature together. I think it is because of a greater chance of genetic defects and dwarfism problems would probably be at the top of the list. I had a miniature stallion that managed to get in with my Walking horse mares, but he wasn't successful in breeding them. One was receptive, but the other grabbed him by the back, picked him up, and tossed him!

 

[arrelle]

IF the mare is APHA registered and you want the color results filed, you’ll need to test via Etalon or UC Davis as those are the only two labs they will accept. I recommend UC Davis as Etalon is not known for their accuracy. The test is literally called Lethal White Overo (LWO), or you can do a full white panel and see if any of the other W modifiers are present - W20 is extensive in many breeds.

You probably want a full genetic panel drawn up, as IMM and PSSM have the potential to show up in many lines and IMM is the latest genetic disease to take hold of stock lines. There are additional genetic diseases that exist in miniature horses that you should test for long before color.

 

[BSharpRanch]

I'm not familiar with the genetic tests for LWO. Dwarfism, both parents MUST carry the gene.

I will say the we had our mini stallion breed our QH mare and will say that he was the most beautiful, well put together pony that I had ever seen. He matured around 46" if I remember correctly.

We all have our reasons for breeding or not breeding our horses, and I think it's very rude to shame anyone for their ideas.

 

[elizabeth.conder]

I'm not familiar with the genetic tests for LWO. Dwarfism, both parents MUST carry the gene.

I will say the we had our mini stallion breed our QH mare and will say that he was the most beautiful, well put together pony that I had ever seen. He matured around 46" if I remember correctly.

We all have our reasons for breeding or not breeding our horses, and I think it's very rude to shame anyone for their ideas.

Agreed. The dwarfism minis carry is not a full sized horse trait. And as far as I know, those full horse genetic disorders typically do not apply to minis. I have seen many nice crosses. Obviously not every cross works out. But then with what cross is an exceptional foal ever assured? It’s important to do research to produce quality foals.

 

[chandab]

The only full-size equine that I know of off the top of my head that has dwarfism is the Friesian and I think it might specific to that breed.
Frame overo is Lethal White Overo and it takes two copies of the gene for foal to be affected and thus pass away within about 48 hours of birth typically. Single copy just produces a much sought after white pattern. It's in many breeds, and can express very minimally, so it's very important to test breeding stock, so that you do not cross two Frame horses and have that 25% chance of a foal that will be homozygous and not make it. Even horses that look solid should be tested for Frame, if you plan on breeding, just to be sure one in the pairing is negative. [Quarter horses, Paint Horses, pintos, miniatures, several of the gaited breeds, and others I can't think of have Frame in the breed.]

 

[Capriole]

I don't know if it's a consideration, but, even if you own the mare and your neighbor owns the stallion.. with all the vet care a mare needs before, during and after pregnancy/foaling I would think it wouldn't be more expensive (maybe even less) to buy a pony. That way you could exactly the pony you want without the risk to your mare.

 

[arrelle]

We all have our reasons for breeding or not breeding our horses, and I think it's very rude to shame anyone for their ideas.

I think it's very rude to celebrate backyard breeding and creating grade ponies, so I guess we'll agree to disagree.

 

[Dragon Hill]

We all have our reasons for breeding or not breeding our horses, and I think it's very rude to shame anyone for their ideas.

I agree. Hopalong, I think you got the information you where looking for, plus more than you bargained for. As you can see, every one has an opinion.

 

[Kelly]

And to lighten things up……. ….. you know it’s coming…… I personally think the munchkin cat is cute as can be!! …… (scroll up) ….now it’s that hairless cat that would have me worried. Sorry to all those hairless cat lovers out there, but I think they are UGLY!! ……. Like Dragon Hill says, everyone has an opinion. And like others have said, you never know what you are gonna get.









It’s not something people talk about, but can you imagine a hairless horse??



And is there a test for that?

 

[Taz]

Even if you think the hairless cats are cute, they leave oil stains behind on the furniture. Imagine getting a blanket clean!

 

[BSharpRanch]

Actually, there are "munchkin" horses out there. They have full sized mini bodies on stumpy legs. It's a form of dwarfism. Not at all good. But it isn't what happens when breeding a full sized horse to a mini. JS.

I used to enjoy this forum...it was super fun...non-judgmental...friendly...educational.

But here recently, I've seen so much of the opposite here, it's becoming another "Karen" site.

Why can't we leave the negativity over on FB, and keep this a fun place like it was?

 

[elizabeth.conder]

Yes dwarfism is not what people seem to be thinking of.

 

[Capriole]

This is just my opinion...but, I think it is almost the "duty" of horsemen/women to educate people on the problem of backyard breeding. There are too many horses that end up going to slaughter, too many horses that end up being neglected. People have no way of knowing the future...if you are no longer able to afford your horse they will have a much better chance of finding a responsible home if they are a well bred, well trained horse. Not a guarantee, sadly, but, definitely ups the odds.
I'm been a member of quite a few forums over the years, from the free speech forum to many of the "sunshine and butterflies" type...the problem with the latter type is they tend to encourage irresponsible breeding......and the horses end up suffering for that.
Some people are going to do whatever they want anyway...but, some people just need to be educated.
In which case it prevents them from having to learn the hard way.

BTW...I am referring to this subject in general, I am not referring to the OP...I have no idea of her knowledge or experience.