Smaller Mares

[minisforever]

the smallest mare that you have foaled out successfully. It worries me sometimes to breed the smaller ones. It is always great to hear success stories and also wouldn't mind hearing why some folks don't recommend breeding them.

 

[Vicky Texas]

The smallest we have bred was 25 inch and 26 mares. Both mares just spit them

out, no problems. No help, I was there to watch, but they just slid them out.

SRR S Dances With Fire, a red roan mare that is 25 inches to NFC Egyptian King

Mistique a blue roan 28 inch stallion. The first foal was about 16 inches and a blue

roan colt. We still have him.

Her Second baby is Princesa, she was 14 1/2 inches at birth and in my avatar with me

holding her. She is now 26 inches at almost 2.

Sweetwaters Little Honeysuckle - 26 inch silver dapple, mare, has had two colts, both

about 27 to 28 inches now. Both black roan colts. Both are very jet black...

both mares had easy births.

Vicky

Dances with Princesa

I was just laughing at Princesa in this picture. I don't know why she has her back legs

crossed, She is a normal foal. Maybe she was "Like could you hurry, I got to go??" Just

too funny.

 

[Nancy G]

The smallest mare we have bred, was 28.5" She had no problems for us at all.

Seems if a small mare has a problem though, there wouldn`t be as much room to work with the foal?? :no:

I think that Tony breeds a lot of smaller mares, with success!

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

Vicky,

I love your mare's head - so pretty and nicely shaped, great expressive eyes also.

:

 

[MiniHoofBeats]

Vicky,

There you are! I was lucky enough to go visit Vicky just last weekend and I got to see both Dances and Princessa, along with the rest of her gang! All so beautiful and of course I wanted to bring home all your tiny girls LOL! =)

I for one don't believe the mare determines the size of the foal, many mini breeders will have stories to share in relation to that...but it's proven that smaller sized mares do not have any more issues foaling than larger mares, the breeder just has to have common sense not to put them with taller stallions or stocky ones. Vicky's girls are great examples, tiny but foaled with ease! :aktion033:

 

[Miniv]

We have foaled out a 27.5" and a 28" mare in the past. One was no problem and the other needed me to go up inside and assist....and it was scarey! But the foal came out and survived just fine.

The major difference between them was the width of the pelvis. Height isn't always the issue, it's the space you are working with (or rather the foal is working with) inside.

We now are breeding for longer legged minis, so that is one stress I'm not having to deal with anymore.... MUCH. Yes, even a few taller ones can still be narrow - so size isn't always an issue.

MA

 

[Latika]

I too have heard that it is ideal to breed bigger mares to smaller stallions, and was told the reasoning was because of too many risks breeding small mares to taller stallions.

I wasnt completely sure of this statement, as at my mums (big horse) stud, we often foals 13hh mares to her 15.3hh stallion, and they always foaled fine. But I have heard of so many mini foaling complications, which is why I bought a larger filly to start breeding with!

I think though that it depends on the individual mare, and also if it their first foal or not. Personally I wouldnt breed a smaller mare to a larger stallion if she were a maiden, but probably would if she'd had successful births previously.

 

[Vicky Texas]

StarRidgeAcres

Thank You so much for the compliment. Dances is an incredible mare. She has given

us two great babies, and she did very well in the ring when shown.

Steffanie

I so enjoy our visit with you and MaryAnn. Thank You also for the compliments on tiny

mares. I too love them. I also want to Thank You, Steffanie for allowing Diva to become

part of our family. I so love her. She is so beautiful, elegant and so refine. I can't wait to

show her.

:

:

:

Thanks

Vicky

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I think one of the problems here is, as said, width of pelvic girdle.

This has no direct correlation with the size of the mare.

I have had a 30 inch mare lose two foals and a 28" mare lose one and then have one, to a larger stallion, just fine.

There definitely ARE more problems with smaller mares having foals, and the height of the stallion is not help either- you need to look at his parents and hers- the GRAND parents often dictate the height of the foal, not the parents.

So a tiny stallion is no real help if both his parents are 34".

Same with the mare.

So often in our "breed" this information is either not known or, like the colours, inaccurate.

I would not breed from a mare under 28"- a couple of years ago my cut off was 30" but I take each case individually below that- you have to remember that we measure properly, too, so my 28" is around 26 1/2", "american",

and I would advise anyone who asked against doing so unless they were fully aware of the potential risks and willing to take them on.

I think everyone who does breed from mares this size will agree that it is not for everyone and certainly not for the "beginner".

 

[kaykay]

ive been told for years the smaller mares have no more problems. but here on our farm the only trouble foaling we have had is our small mares.

 

[Tony]

The smallest mare we have foaled was 25", Little America's It's Mardi Gras, who was bred to 27.75", Little America's Sterling Fantastic. No problem at all with this result, Little America's Sterling Fantastic II:

 

[Erica]

As far as breeding smaller mares to taller stallions, I have done it and had very good results with EASY foaling..........on the picture forum now I have a foal that was the result of a 29.5" mare bred to my 34" stallion. She spit this foal out in less than 5 mins as most of you saw on marestare.

But I also agree that a lot depends on the mares width and pelvic girth, some mares are so narrow they just aren't made to be momma's almost......

I also think a lot depends on the stallion as well, I gave no seconds thoughts about the breeding above, because my stallion produces little petite heads and refined bodies, I think many mares also get into foaling problems with some of those big wide dome heads........so no matter how "small" (as far as height wise) the foal is, if it is bulky, wide, stocky, big headed she is going to have lots more problems than foaling a very leggy refined, small headed foal.

 

[Charlotte]

but here on our farm the only trouble foaling we have had is our small mares.

Aaaah, Kaykay. :bgrin And here we have just the opposite! As a result have gotten rid of all of our tall mares but 2. And just last week had a major wreck with our tallest...34" on a good day. And Lace is a 'big' mare all the way around! The result was a live filly, but only because our wonderful vet made a 30 minute trip here in 15 minutes! I told him never to do that again! It was too risky!

Head and front legs were back and we couldn't reposition the head! Not without the drugs to knock the mare out and stop contractions.

Our little girls just seem to spit them right out. We have had to do some 'reposition' occasionally, but have always been able to do so quickly. Mostly, the foals are 'right' and just hurry right on out!

I have two smaller size maidens that will foal soon. One is very 'narrow' built. We'll see how they go but I really don't expect trouble.

Charlotte

 

[MiniHoofBeats]

I know I still don't have any personal foaling experience here, but I too believe a WIDE pelvis and DEEP hip will help any mare to foal out better, especially the little ones! I have made it a permenant "must" that any mare that comes into my under 30" program specifically to be bred, must have a huge back end! I see a few extremely narrow bodied mares and wonder how they can foal out...and I know I don't want a narrow bodied or narrow hipped mare here. I will know more and have more experience talking once my mares foal, if they foal easy then I know my hypothosis on wider hips was a good idea but if they still have issues then well, back to the drawing board! But I have so much confidence knowng those such as Vicky, Tony and Charlotte who have successfully foaled out tiny mares with no issues. =)

It's like when you look at a size 0 human woman who has had 3 kids...you wonder how in the WORLD those kids got between those pelvis bones??? (rule out having had a c-section...lol). That's how I look at mares too, if they have the tiniest butt and narrow hips I just wouldn't feel comfortable breeding her, especially to a stallion bigger than her.

 

[Becky]

I know I don't want a narrow bodied or narrow hipped mare here

Interestingly enough, you cannot tell the pelvic width of a mare by how she looks on the outside! My narrowest mare at 29" never has a problem foaling and she is about as wide as a piece of paper! I have had big bodied, big butted mares that upon examination by my vet, were deemed as narrow in the pelvis and likely would have foaling problems.

I haven't had any more problems with my smaller mares than I have had with my taller ones.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Aah Becky you beat me to it!!

The size of a mare outside has not relation to the size of her inside so I would get those little big bummed mares internalled if I were you!!

The 30" mare I had two dead foals from had the biggest backside I have seen in a long time- and the foals she failed to pass were not big, either- but the Vet could hardly get her hand through the pelvic girdle and THAT'S the bit that counts.

 

[Relic]

The shortest we had was a 28.50 incher bred to a 33 inch stallion who was a Rowdy grandson. lt wasn't a big deal the mare was huge baby was a big one and was taller then mom at weaning which was funny. l don't believe for a minute that anyone can tell without a vet check that a mare is big enough when on the short side unless she's been vet checked for what she's like on the inside....we only have a handful of shorties but they don't have anymore problems if any then the taller ones foaling out....

 

[capall beag]

My Fairy who is at MOST 29", I seem to oversize all my horses when I measure

: was bred to a 30" stallion and had no problems foaling as a maiden.

My VERY limited experience last year with a 29", 32" and 34" mare all maiden!!!!!! saw no difference in foaling. All 3 were uncomplicated. All bred to the same stallion, 30".

They produced foals that fit with their height! Fairy's colt is TINY still, may make 28".

I would focus less on height and more on their history. I would look at their dam and granddam to predict how they will be as a broodmare.

IMO some mares are just better built(internally) to be broodmares regardless of height, then sometimes there is just bad luck with malposition of foal etc

 

[rabbitsfizz]

When we had the Arabs we had a 15.2 hh stallion and a Crabbet stallion- Rabidan, who was 14.00hh if you stretched him and shod him!!

Rabidan was the sire of the biggest pure bred in England (at the time) who stood 16.2 hh.

Sundancer (the 15.2 hh) was Polish bred and sired tiny, refined foals who grew slowly until they were a good four/five years old.

Rabidan threw HUGE foals ( I had a colt out of my 14.2 hh Polish bred mare that was the biggest thing I had ever got out alive)

When breeding a maiden we would always use Sundancer for a first foal even though he was the bigger stallion.

Rabbit, all 28" of him, was 18+" at birth and had made his full height by the time he was one year old, as do all his foals and most of his grandchildren.

When we were breeding the big horses we had never heard of the "the mare governs the size of the foal" myth and it is just as well, all in all, as if we had we would have lost a few mares, as well as the odd foal that we did, inevitably, lose anyway.

Basically there are a lot more things to be taken into account than just the size of the stallion and the mare, and as I have said, my teeny tiny mare, Mia, lost her first foal, sired by a 29" stallion, but passed without a problem her foal to my 32" stallion.

This year she appears to be in foal to my 27" (but o/o a 34" mare) stallion- I'll let you know what happens- needless to say it will not be an unattended birth.

 

[Gena]

We had a mare that was 28" - before we bred her (we waited until she was 4) we had our vet out for an examination. Our stallion was 28" and refined and ALL of his foals born here were refined so we felt he was a good match for her and with our vets approval she was bred. She has now had to date three foals with this stallion and has had a text book delivery every time, even as a maiden she foaled quickly/easily - nice refined foals with great conformation, nice long legs (I love Gold Melody Boy x Hemlock Brooks Egyptian King cross) all maturing 30 to 32"