SO what is the last hair?

[miniwhinny]

OKay, so what is the last hair? ! I found some really maney looking hairs...got a measurement of 31 inches...got some maney fuzz but still mane- got a measurement of 30 inches...got some fuzzy fuzz...not back hair not mane hair..sort of inbetween...got a measurement of 29 inches LOL. Exactly what is the "last mane hair" that we're supposed to measure from?

 

[Miniv]

Danna, You are too funny!!!! But you hit the problem right on the head!!!

That's part of the problem right there........I won't tell you what some people do at shows to make fur look like mane hairs.......

MA

 

[RainSong]

Danna, You are too funny!!!! But you hit the problem right on the head!!!

That's part of the problem right there........I won't tell you what some people do at shows to make fur look like mane hairs.......

MA

Can you tell me in PM? "Cause now you've got me imagining hair spray and dye and careful trimming... or worse LOL

... Seriously, I'd be confused trying to find the last hair of the mane...

 

[rabbitsfizz]

And THAT is why a horse measured in the US at 32" can easily measure out over here!!!

The "last hair of the mane" is exactly whatever anyone wants to make it- usually IME halfway down the back and I am quite sure that the dying and gluing does happen, far more than anyone would wan to admit.

The withers, on the other hand, which is where every other breed in the world measure to, is not a "movable feast" nor is it open to opinion.

Having said all that I can assure you that ALL other breeds that have to be measured, even dogs, have exactly the same problems measuring and exactly the same numbers and sorts of "cheaters".

Whenever you get a rule you will ALWAYS get a few people who do not seem to think it applies to them.

I had someone in all seriousness tell me that their horse was SO good that the rule on height should be ignored for this particular horse, in fact they should not really have to take it to the shows, they should be taken on merit.

This horse in fact measured in, and was a very nice horse, without doubt, but thew owners were dead serious- they did not think, since it was so very good, that the rules applied to them.

NO-ONE (as even your Presidents have found out) is above the law!!

So , although I really do think AMHA should measure to the withers, I in no way think this would solve any problems with measuring.

 

[Rebecca]

I've always had the same question! Why does AMHA measure by mane hairs, not withers? Wouldn't there be a lot less confusion if you just measured by the withers? Is there any reason behind measuring to the last hairs of the mane?

 

[Jill]

Yeah............... Almost makes a person think we should measure minis the way we measure "regular" horses, huh?

Also, my riding horse's mane goes under the saddle pad. Imagine whatta small mini he would make

 

[Alex]

IMO, measuring at the withers makes more sense! Is there a reason we measure at the last hair?

 

[Jill]

IMO, measuring at the withers makes more sense! Is there a reason we measure at the last hair?

I read it was a compromise. Some people wanted to measure at the withers, and others wanted to measure from the center of the back (!!!!!!). Just imagine all the "tiny" sway back minis that would have brought about OH!

 

[barefoot]

Could someone post a picture of a mini being measured, showing the last hair? Or is there a website that has an example?

thanks , Emma

 

[Margaret]

I really messed up at my last show by trimming off the hair that really was my stallions mane hair.

I thought it looked cleaner and neater to clip it off at the very end.

Little did I realize at the time that he would measure in taller at the show because of it.

Thankfully the steward at the show realized my goof,- and allowed me to still measure in to my class.

Needless to say he still looked to be one of the smallest stallions in the class.

 

[Sandee]

Could someone post a picture of a mini being measured, showing the last hair? Or is there a website that has an example?

thanks , Emma

You've hit the BIG question right there. Many stewards will say that they can detect the last hair of the mane even if you have left more hair down the back. I'm not convinced of this as the particular steward that told me that measured one of my horses for his permanent papers at 31.25 then at a later show he got him at 31.

I too have been told that I cut off too much mane so now I leave lots of hair let the stewards "work it out"!

 

[Margo_C-T]

I believe the choice by the founders of AMHR(since they were first, and originally set the standard of where to measure Miniature Horses, which was then emulated by AMHA when it was begun)may be characterized as a compromise, but perhaps not exactly as referred to...(maybe someone who knows for sure will come in with the facts?)--However,from what I have read and heard over the years, I am pretty sure it was a choice made mostly to make the horses 'seem' as short as possible, but without looking TOTALLY ridiculous in the eyes of the horsepeople of the world(i.e., by measuring in the middle of the back....

)!

Although I FULLY SUPPORT a change to measuring ALL Miniatures at the high point of the withers( LIKE THE ENTIRE REST OF THE EQUINE WORLD, for Heaven's sake!!!), I do not consider it all THAT difficult to determine where the last hair of the mane is; IMO, it is best done by using your sense of touch, if in doubt. . When I bodyclip, I don't leave a 'tail' of body hair; but, I realize that it is a tricky business to clip as I do-and would never be critical of those who don't--that said, anytime/for any reason, it is 'hard' to determine mane hair, use your fingertips...there is a DEFINITE difference in the characteristics of mane hair vs body hair(go out and 'practice' feeling of the last, shortest part of the mane over the withers; you'll see what I mean...)

I have NO idea how someone would 'glue' additional hair onto the withers convincingly.(though,sadly, I suppose I shouldn't doubt that it has been and is being, done...all I can say is, I would not for ANYTHING-money, comfortable circumstances, kudos, fame, you name it-- trade places with anyone who 'needs' that badly to cheat ....and I pity such people's horses.

(I am compelled to say that a difference of .25"(1/4") from one measurement to another is not at ALL surprising...Although I am a STICKLER for correct measurement, and do NOT believe that measurement is NEARLY as subjective as many seem to think, that amount of difference, in my opinion and experience, is about as much as a measurement 'should be allowed to' vary, but CAN occur without anything 'deliberate' being done to 'alter' as fair and accurate a height as can be documented.....)

Also--I know of no instructional tape or website(at least, anything "official" on measuring. I do know very well how to measure myself, though-and would be glad to provide a tutorial. Better still, perhaps, would be for someone who has either attended, or even better, CONDUCTED, an 'official' measurement seminar for either registry to spell out what is taught there! Any volunteers?

Margo

 

[Aggravation Acres]

Maybe this is why other breeds do not take us serious.

When no two people can measure the same horse the same height.

When is the miniature horse world going to wake up and measure a spot that can not change from one clipping to the other. The withers.

Now I am going to get flamed for this one.

Deb

 

[wiccanz]

The way I determine the last true mane hairs, is to try pulling on it. Mane hair doesn't come away easily - coat hair does (especially if it's been deliberately left on to look like mane hair

).

Some of the horses I have measured have had a strip of coat hair half way down their backs!! But I am not so easily fooled.

Perhaps if we made the withers the measuring point, we would be taken more seriously in the Equine world!

 

[miniwhinny]

Okay show people...so I can measure my horses today...just to see how big they actually are...what is mane hair (as far as measuring goes)? It is the last long thin stringy violin--string type hair or is it those intermediate not mane hairs but not body hairs - those bushy ones found in the mane itself) that obviously go more into the back than the others...are those the ones we measure to? Thanks

Just want to know if I have 29 inch mini's or 31 inch minis

 

[stormy]

Do we have to keep beating a dead horse here, have we nothing else to talk about??? If you want measuring changed send in a proposed rule change to the registry (than be willing to accept the consequences when many horses measure over and lose their papers).

 

[miniwhinny]

Do we have to keep beating a dead horse here, have we nothing else to talk about???

I'm sorry you're upset but I didn't start this thread for any other reason that to seriously ask how to measure my horses. I've never been to a show and never had anyone show me how to measure a mini so the only way I can find out (and I bet others reading this too) how to do it is to ask those who do know.

 

[miniwhinny]

I it is 'hard' to determine mane hair, use your fingertips...there is a DEFINITE difference in the characteristics of mane hair vs body hair(go out and 'practice' feeling of the last, shortest part of the mane over the withers; you'll see what I mean...)Margo

Oh thank you. I didn't see this explanation. Going out now to measure my "kids"

 

[Jill]

Miniwhinny --

I'm thinking at least one of your horses has a mane that's a different color than the body? If so, thats going to be an easy one to measure (not quite as easy this time of year as when he/she is shed though). Use a GOOD stick (not a cheapy one), stand him or her on level ground, and measure where you see the last hair of the mane growing out.

I've never had a problem and actually, seem to measure a little taller at home that at shows. It's not hard to really see what's mane hair and what's body hair especially on a horse you own and know hasn't been tinkered with, right?

At any rate, I am one who would like to see miniatures measured like all other breeds of horse are measured.

Jill

 

[miniwhinny]

Thanks Jill (and Margo) It isn't hard once you know what is meant by "mane hairs". I followed your instructions and measured Twoie at 30 3/4 and Ozy at 29 1/4. Just for my own curiosity I measured them both at the withers too just to see the difference.

Ozy went from 29 1/4 to 30 3/4 (1 1/2 inches difference)

Twoie went from 30 3/4 to 31 1/2 ( 3/4 of an inch ) Her mane hairs don't go back very far.

One final thing...beating a dead horse...Noone would loose their papers. Registries can't change rules mid track and kick horses out. Any new horse could be measured at the withers and existing horses could re-measure or stay the same with a note saying mane measured or something. It would actually be a very easy change to make. IMO