Some FACTS about the AMHA Measuring Petition

[Mona]

Apparently there is some discussion going on as to "my" starting this petition. First off, it is NOT MONA STONE that started this petition. I am only one of several in a group that feel VERY STRONGLY against this new measuring rule and TOGETHER we have been working to try and make a change. We may or may not succeed, but at least we can say we tried!

We are being called "vigilantes" now too I hear, because we are taking this into our own hands. Well, I just don't get it...first we are told if we want change in our association, we must step up to the plate, follow the rules and MAKE IT HAPPEN, not just sit back and complain. Well folks, we are here to say that we are doing just that, and now it appears it is ruffling too many feathers, rubbing too many people the wrong way, and now they don't like that we are trying to make a change, so we suddenly become vigilantes! OH!

So, for Bill, Becky, Karen etc. or any other of you saying WE don't know what we are doing, and WE need to learn to follow the rules, I suggest to you that YOU pull your rulebooks out and refer to Article Vl Section 4 (E) Special Measures. It reads:

Proposals to amend a Bylaw; amend the Articles of Incorporation; or dissolve the corporation may be made by a petition signed by at least five (5) percent of the voting members as of the April 1st preceding the meeting, or by a majority of the Board of Directors, and notice of such proposals shall be published in the Miniature Horse World or by mail to all members, at least sixty (60) days prior to the next Annual Meeting or special meeting.

Requirement for due notice of intent to amend a Bylaw; amend the Articles of Incorporation; or dissolve the corporation shall thus be deemed satisfied and next Annual Meeting or special meeting may proceed to take final action. All bylaw changes ratified at the Annual Meeting would become effective January 1st proceeding the Annual Meeting in which they are passed.

You see, we are told to do things by the book, and we DO things by the book, yet we are still made out to be the bad guys.

As for people signing when they don't know what it is about, then I am sorry, that is not our fault, nor our intent! We have sent letters, and posted here on LB arguements both for and against, because we WANTED it to be fair. We WANT people to see BOTH sides and to DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES! We are not dragging people by the hair and forcing them to do anything. We are ASKING, maybe even begging and pleading, but we are certainly not out to do it with any ill intentions! Oh, and Lois, well, you need not worry about non-members signing, because we are gathering their AMHA member numbers along with their names!

I think many of YOU people need to get YOUR facts straight before condemning others for their serious efforts in trying to make what they feel is a positive change.

So just like with the measurement rule...don't believe everything you hear!

So for those of you that are in support of our efforts, and wish to sign, you can do so by signing HERE !

 

[McBunz]

Well done Mona........

 

[Irish Hills Farm]

Get'em Mona.

 

[shalamara minis]

As for people signing when they don't know what it is about, then I am sorry, that is not our fault, nor our intent! We have sent letters, and posted here on LB arguements both for and against, because we WANTED it to be fair. We WANT people to see BOTH sides and to DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES! We are not dragging people by the hair and forcing them to do anything. We are ASKING, maybe even begging and pleading, but we are certainly not out to do it with any ill intentions!

This is why AMHA has had such a problem trying to find another way to vote, other that than at the convention, it doesn't mater what you post , how you send it, where you post or send it, there is always somebody that doesn't get it or read all of it.

 

[user 488]

Well, I just don't get it...first we are told if we want change in our association, we must step up to the plate, follow the rules and MAKE IT HAPPEN, not just sit back and complain. Well folks, we are here to say that we are doing just that, and now it appears it is ruffling too many feathers, rubbing too many people the wrong way, and now they don't like that we are trying to make a change, so we suddenly become vigilantes! OH!

I am proud of the people that are taking a stand on these very important issues. Whether you agree with them or not, they certainly are not vigilantes. There is absolutely nothing wrong with people who have the GUTS to stand up for something they believe in. I find it quite interesting that some of the people who spoke up quite vigorously in years past are now sitting back singing a different tune.

As for people signing when they don't know what it is about, then I am sorry, that is not our fault, nor our intent!

Don't apologize for any of it. These are adults here and their reading and comprehension skills should be advanced enough to "get it".

So to all of you that are FINALLY doing something about the things you believe in......

 

[Michelle@wescofarms]

Vigilants? What is this the Wild West and we're having a 'neck-tie party'????

Goodness Mona you wild woman - who knew!!!!

As a MEMBER of an association you have every RIGHT to work to effect change - someone doesn't like it to bad!

Kudos to you and you're group for taking a stand - this measuring issue and the voting - well they come up ever year in February/March and are usually dead in the water by the time foaling season kicks in - so if you're group can get things done more power to you!

 

[Margo_C-T]

BRAVO, Mona, BRAVO! and for those of you who feel the 'need' to know, I am another of the group who felt strongly enough about this issue to GO THROUGH THE STEPS, as prescibed in the current AMHA Bylaws, to take positive action!

Edited to add: After coming back to read responses, I feel compelled to add---like Mcbunz(Adrien), I have no issue with people knowing who I am. Like her, I have never met, face to face or otherwise,(and considering where we all live, it is unlikely I ever will!)-the others most closely involved in this effort. I SELDOM communicate via PMs, and when I have, it has been along the lines of 'one sent, 'one reply' and that was pretty much it. That is just MY way; I am NOT criticizing those who have THEIR way. Each person is entitled to their privacy, though, and their choice as how to maintain it...of one thing I am certain--every person in the core group who supported the concept of the petition is able to be a 'critical thinker'--meaning, one who doesn't just swallow EITHER the 'official' OR 'their buddy's" version and view of things, but takes the time and effort to consider a situation FOR THEMSELF, and makes informed and well-thought-out decisions! The world would do well to have more like them.....

As for 'Anonymous' voting? Come on...that has NOTHING to do with any Forum??!! It is fully permitted on the petition-if you are a qualified member, your vote WILL count in the final analysis when turned in to AMHA.

SO--please, read ALL the info on the petition form, use the link provided to see a presentation of BOTH sides of the issue, then think for yourself, and if you agree with its purpose, SIGN THE PETITION!

Regards to you all,

 

[McBunz]

I am one of the Vigilants .. I have never met nor have I spoken to the others in this group before

we started this so there is absolutely no unseen plot going on here. We are only trying our best to get

the entire AMHA membership a voice in their club...

 

[Buckskin gal]

I really belive that speaking out is most often a good thing. I had not heard anything about the group who started the petition being vigilantes...just thought some were concerned members of AMHA. What I do find puzzling is why the names of all the people in this group have not been stated as of now. Do some feel it would be determental to them to be known or that they could be given trouble such as being called vigilantes or is there some other reason. I just have some hesitation in signing a petition of any kind unless I know who the people are that are behind it. McBunz says he/she is one of the vigilantes but I know that can't be a real name. I have also noticed that there are a number of people who are signing the petition that want to remain anonomyous...is there some fear of being known and if there is I have some fear of signing the petition even though I prefer to see the measuring stay as it has been. Some may say I am just a scardy cat but I have learned that things can go haywire on the forum and have had to be cautious upon learning this. If anyone can honestly give me some insight as to who the people are behind this I may feel more comfortable about signing the petition...others may feel the same way. Thank you, Mary

Apparently there is some discussion going on as to "my" starting this petition. First off, it is NOT MONA STONE that started this petition. I am only one of several in a group that feel VERY STRONGLY against this new measuring rule and TOGETHER we have been working to try and make a change. We may or may not succeed, but at least we can say we tried!

We are being called "vigilantes" now too I hear, because we are taking this into our own hands. Well, I just don't get it...first we are told if we want change in our association, we must step up to the plate, follow the rules and MAKE IT HAPPEN, not just sit back and complain. Well folks, we are here to say that we are doing just that, and now it appears it is ruffling too many feathers, rubbing too many people the wrong way, and now they don't like that we are trying to make a change, so we suddenly become vigilantes! OH!

So, for Bill, Becky, Karen etc. or any other of you saying WE don't know what we are doing, and WE need to learn to follow the rules, I suggest to you that YOU pull your rulebooks out and refer to Article Vl Section 4 (E) Special Measures. It reads:

Proposals to amend a Bylaw; amend the Articles of Incorporation; or dissolve the corporation may be made by a petition signed by at least five (5) percent of the voting members as of the April 1st preceding the meeting, or by a majority of the Board of Directors, and notice of such proposals shall be published in the Miniature Horse World or by mail to all members, at least sixty (60) days prior to the next Annual Meeting or special meeting.

Requirement for due notice of intent to amend a Bylaw; amend the Articles of Incorporation; or dissolve the corporation shall thus be deemed satisfied and next Annual Meeting or special meeting may proceed to take final action. All bylaw changes ratified at the Annual Meeting would become effective January 1st proceeding the Annual Meeting in which they are passed.

You see, we are told to do things by the book, and we DO things by the book, yet we are still made out to be the bad guys.

As for people signing when they don't know what it is about, then I am sorry, that is not our fault, nor our intent! We have sent letters, and posted here on LB arguements both for and against, because we WANTED it to be fair. We WANT people to see BOTH sides and to DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES! We are not dragging people by the hair and forcing them to do anything. We are ASKING, maybe even begging and pleading, but we are certainly not out to do it with any ill intentions! Oh, and Lois, well, you need not worry about non-members signing, because we are gathering their AMHA member numbers along with their names!

I think many of YOU people need to get YOUR facts straight before condemning others for their serious efforts in trying to make what they feel is a positive change.

So just like with the measurement rule...don't believe everything you hear!

So for those of you that are in support of our efforts, and wish to sign, you can do so by signing HERE !

 

[nootka]

Count me in. Not vigilantes, just discussing and trying to find out how we can best effect a change, or stop this one from becoming a rule we don't believe in or feel good about.

I discussed this with others, some I knew how they felt, others they didn't (not necessarily from this board), and I will tell you that without me saying how I felt, they resoundingly rolled their eyes at the "new rule" or "new way of measuring."

I have voted on the polls to go with measuring at the top of the withers, or go back to measuring at the last hair of the mane. Change it to something SANE, or leave it.

The only reason I detest this new change is that it is hard to determine the right place to measure from, and feels like a cheesy attempt to slide "over" horses in all the while "pretending" they are 34" and under, which as we all know has been pushed on more times than we'd care to admit.

Time to be honest, people. That horse that's measuring 33.75" at the "groove" may just honestly be a 35.75" horse at the top of their withers. Still the same horse.

Liz

 

[McBunz]

I am not hiding anything.. Adrien Christensen.... Mcbunz Miniature Horses.. Female , 6O yrs. old.. short, blue eyes and over weight.. And I oppose changing the Standard of Perfection and want the vote for all AMHA

adult members... If some do not want their names showing on the petition, that is their business. They

probably fear those who oppose the petition or who's toes they may be stepping on..

 

[Suzie]

I see no problem with having a few people draft a public petition, place it online and ask for signatures. That is the democratic way. If you READ it and do not agree, don't sign. It is certainly done more in the open here than before aprox 100 people in Charleston. No one even knew who was putting that forward until they came forward to post on Lil Begs for the most part. Once all the signatures are in and submitted, I am sure they will be available for public review. I have no problem letting people know where I stand on the subject. I voted to change it. As far as I can tell, this petition was done in the best possible way...out in the open for people to actually see, not hidden away in the back of magazine with about 10 pages of other issues, that comes to my house after the date of the convention.......

 

[Mona]

I really belive that speaking out is most often a good thing. I had not heard anything about the group who started the petition being vigilantes...just thought some were concerned members of AMHA. What I do find puzzling is why the names of all the people in this group have not been stated as of now. Do some feel it would be determental to them to be known or that they could be given trouble such as being called vigilantes or is there some other reason. I just have some hesitation in signing a petition of any kind unless I know who the people are that are behind it. McBunz says he/she is one of the vigilantes but I know that can't be a real name. I have also noticed that there are a number of people who are signing the petition that want to remain anonomyous...is there some fear of being known and if there is I have some fear of signing the petition even though I prefer to see the measuring stay as it has been. Some may say I am just a scardy cat but I have learned that things can go haywire on the forum and have had to be cautious upon learning this. If anyone can honestly give me some insight as to who the people are behind this I may feel more comfortable about signing the petition...others may feel the same way. Thank you, Mary

Mary, WHO is behind something like this should never matter...it is not a popularity vote for the person(s) behind it, it is an issue based on each person's personal feelings, beliefs, likes and/or dislikes. In effect, EVERYONE that signed the petition is "behind this"!!!

 

[Frank]

Mona et al,

I will always support members who get involved and follow our rule book to achieve the end result they seek. In the very early stages of your effort, however, some things were put in print that did not help your cause. The talk about how something was sneaked throuth the meeting by a few looking out for only their own gain turned some people off. Too many people knew that wasn't the case. Also, you and others have been asked specific questions. How is the new rule unethical? How will the new rule be a financial disaster? You will only help your own cause by factually answering these questions. Less emotion and more fact can only help you succeed. Unless, and until, your group is willing to put some meat behind your statements, there are a whole bunch of people who don't want to get involved with your effort. It is time for you to back up your statements; you have been asked these questions before and they are still unanswered to my knowledge. Now is the time to help yourself.

 

[Cathy_H]

first we are told if we want change in our association, we must step up to the plate, follow the rules and MAKE IT HAPPEN, not just sit back and complain.

........................ Goes to show you are dummed if you don't & dummed if you do............... I agree - several have chastised us for complaining and not doing anything (edited to add this) (voicing our opinion as I see it). Now that some have provided the means for more of us to do so we are being chastised for that too! OH! ............. Again, we DO NOT need a new measuring method, do the one currently being used correctly!

....... If this is too simple for those in control to understand then they do need to listen to us simple minded members who do understand this!

 

[Suzie]

Frank, I don't want to be in a public argument here, but the points you bring forth apply to the original change in the bylaw as well in my eyes...

How is the new rule unethical? How will the new rule be a financial disaster? You will only help your own cause by factually answering these questions. Less emotion and more fact can only help you succeed. Unless, and until, your group is willing to put some meat behind your statements, there are a whole bunch of people who don't want to get involved with your effort.

Forgive me if I interpret this wrong, but you are placing a double standard here. You are asking the "what ifs" will be if we void the change. I believe the "what ifs" should have been placed out front in February when the change was voted on. I personally would like to see the "what ifs" of this change placed forward first, not the "what ifs" if we stop this from being implemented. We all know how things are now. The meat on the bones needs to come from the ones proposing the change in my honest opinion. If that turns off some people, I apologize. The unknown impact of the change turns me off more.

 

[bingo]

Good for you guys and don't apologize for ANYTHING.

I am so sick of the argument that people won't understand the issues. Come on now folks this is not brain surgery this is simple measuring taller horses in now and calling them smaller. Pretty simple - pretty black and white.

What you are seeing is the fear that just perhaps the majority will actually finally have a say and it may not work for the very few who have been in control from the get go. You are hearing their fear at losing the grip.

 

[McBunz]

Mona et al,

I will always support members who get involved and follow our rule book to achieve the end result they seek. In the very early stages of your effort, however, some things were put in print that did not help your cause. The talk about how something was sneaked throuth the meeting by a few looking out for only their own gain turned some people off. Too many people knew that wasn't the case. Also, you and others have been asked specific questions. How is the new rule unethical? How will the new rule be a financial disaster? You will only help your own cause by factually answering these questions. Less emotion and more fact can only help you succeed. Unless, and until, your group is willing to put some meat behind your statements, there are a whole bunch of people who don't want to get involved with your effort. It is time for you to back up your statements; you have been asked these questions before and they are still unanswered to my knowledge. Now is the time to help yourself.

How is this unethical? This by-law changed the Standard of Perfection.. The very thing that the club

was founded on in the first place.. The thing each and every one of is trying to achieve.. It may have

been a very small change, but if allowed to pass without a vote from the general membership it rocks

the foundation of AHMA. Horses 34 inches and under at the last hair of the mane.. If it was just a show

rule that was changed I doubt anyone would be opposed. If it was how the club spends its money, again

I doubt you would have an argument. We are not a bunch or radicals.. We just want a voice in important

changes being made. We want the existing rules to be followed. If this is allowed to go on, what will be

the next change to the standard be? Most of the standard deals with what is needed to have a sound

strong horse. Not fads... but a well thought out Standard...

 

[Buckskin gal]

Hi Adrien, Thank you for letting me know who you are. I guess with you saying there is the possibility that some have fear of those who oppose the petition or getting their toes stepped on is reason enough to not be identified. It is sad that all people can't freely give their opinion on a matter without fear of some reprucussion. At least I am not alone. I do strongly believe in democracy and know petitioons can be of help to make changes.....I just like to know who the people are that write them up and I feel it is my right to know....yes, I do hope someday all will be able to voice an opinion without reprucussion. Thanks again, Mary

I am not hiding anything.. Adrien Christensen.... Mcbunz Miniature Horses.. Female , 6O yrs. old.. short, blue eyes and over weight.. And I oppose changing the Standard of Perfection and want the vote for all AMHA

adult members... If some do not want their names showing on the petition, that is their business. They

probably fear those who oppose the petition or who's toes they may be stepping on..

Mona, This is one time we will just have to agree to disagree because it does matter to me who is behind something like this. It isn't that I don't believe in petitions for change because I do. I thik it is a way to make a difference but it is my right to have as much information as possible when making choices or decisions....that is the way I am and it has served me well for many years. I feel I have a right to question and often feel the more questions asked and the more answers that are given help tremendously in living. I fully understand that everyone who signs the petition is behind what it states but that doesn't tell me who the group of people was that iniated it. If someone wants to remain anonomous that is fine but I felt there was nothing wrtong in asking about the reasons for it. Thanks, Mary

I really belive that speaking out is most often a good thing. I had not heard anything about the group who started the petition being vigilantes...just thought some were concerned members of AMHA. What I do find puzzling is why the names of all the people in this group have not been stated as of now. Do some feel it would be determental to them to be known or that they could be given trouble such as being called vigilantes or is there some other reason. I just have some hesitation in signing a petition of any kind unless I know who the people are that are behind it. McBunz says he/she is one of the vigilantes but I know that can't be a real name. I have also noticed that there are a number of people who are signing the petition that want to remain anonomyous...is there some fear of being known and if there is I have some fear of signing the petition even though I prefer to see the measuring stay as it has been. Some may say I am just a scardy cat but I have learned that things can go haywire on the forum and have had to be cautious upon learning this. If anyone can honestly give me some insight as to who the people are behind this I may feel more comfortable about signing the petition...others may feel the same way. Thank you, Mary

Mary, WHO is behind something like this should never matter...it is not a popularity vote for the person(s) behind it, it is an issue based on each person's personal feelings, beliefs, likes and/or dislikes. In effect, EVERYONE that signed the petition is "behind this"!!!

 

[McBunz]

Mona, This is one time we will just have to agree to disagree because it does matter to me who is behind something like this. It isn't that I don't believe in petitions for change because I do. I thik it is a way to make a difference but it is my right to have as much information as possible when making choices or decisions....that is the way I am and it has served me well for many years. I feel I have a right to question and often feel the more questions asked and the more answers that are given help tremendously in living. I fully understand that everyone who signs the petition is behind what it states but that doesn't tell me who the group of people was that iniated it. If someone wants to remain anonomous that is fine but I felt there was nothing wrtong in asking about the reasons for it. Thanks, Mary



We are not an army.... you know who most of us are.. we are only a handful of concerned AMHA members.