stud chains

[txminipinto]

I've been in the horse business practically my entire life and am fairly comfortable with most, if not all, training aids. But there's one aid that I have noticed in this industry that has a lot of "stigma" associated with it. I want your opinions on stud chains and why you use them or don't use them.

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

My stud pony doesn't need a chain and doesn't know how to react to it, so I do not use one with him. I also do not breed him so no need there. My QH stallion wears a chain but not more than a clip; but its there if I need to put it over his nose.

With full sized horses, I ALWAYS use a chain in the breeding shed. With gentlemen stallions the chain will be over the nose. Average horses with good manners (or bad) wear the chain through the mouth. This is an AIDE, a signal to the stallion that he is allowed to be a stallion and he's expected to breed. This is NOT a punishment device, its a signal. True, it CAN be used more harshly if the situation demands it, but that's not its only purpose.

When a stallion is expected to be a tease horse, I'll use the chain over the nose. This is a different situation than actually breeding, and the difference of the chain is the signal that a different responce is desired. Again, this is for all stallions, not just ill mannered ones. (Ill mannered horses aren't the safest choice for a tease horse anyways!)

Out of the breeding shed I'll defiantely use one if needed, but if the horse doesn't need one I won't use it. I've worked with thousands of horses, there is definately a place for a chain lead outside of breeding. And inside breeding, its mandatory.

 

[Leeana]

I have never had to use a stud chain, or any chain (besides of course on the show halters...). I just think it takes away from the natural pressure of the halter...

I had a friend who has a QH and a Paint....she uses a chain every time she leads them ..to or from the pasture or just just point A to B. If you just lead them with a regular snap on the halter..they do not respect you at all..these are 1500 pound horses too, not 250 pound miniatures. I dont use them, because i do not want THAT to happen. I am very pleased to say i can lead any of my horses with just a lead around their neck anywhere i need (i do not take them outside of the fence that way, though). My stallions react to a gentle yank on the lead, i do not need a chain. I just do not like having to use a chain, nothing at all agianst it..i just choose not to. Her horses knew when that chain was not there and took advantage of that situation. I am not weak and measily by any means, but her horses pulled me from her pasture to her barn countless times. I have used a chain before, but i feel as if i have just as much control (actually more..) with just a halter and lead. Just what i am comfortable with.

So, no..i dont use them..not because i think they are physcally harmful (i dont think they are, in most cases).

 

[whimsical]

I really have no need to use them. My studs are managable without them.

Now several years ago I had a stud that was all muscle and hard to keep control of that I would have probably tried that on him. He would just drag me around and with my little stature I had no leverage on him.

But I think I am hopefully more experience now and could probably train him to obey better.

I would say not a bad think if not used in a harsh manner.

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

I have no issue with them at all. Some horses need them, some don't. Some need them in certain situations only and breeding is often one of those times. I don't think they are appropriate for a lot of people who are inclined to use them to excess and should only be a back-up cue if the horse is getting strong in a regular halter and needs to be reminded of his manners. I like Nathan's idea of using them in different configurations to signal different things. I have used different halters for the same purpose.

 

[txminipinto]

What about performance training and events?

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

IMO there is too much chance of inadvertently punishing your horse is you use a chain in performance events. It is awfully easy to jerk the lead when the horse is taking a jump for example and discipline him for doing just what he is asked to. Seems to me if a chain is required the horse is either in need of more training or temperamentally unsuited to those events.

 

[JourneysEnd]

I don't normally start with one in performance training but I won't hesitate to use one when I need to get my point across. You might say I only use a chain when the horse requests it.

 

[targetsmom]

I use stud chains mostly as a training aid for halter obstacle and jumping. Of course, it goes UNDER the chin, not over the nose and is hooked to the upper halter ring, as you would for showmanship (which I also use it for!). It is mostly to let them know that they are going to "work" and I do think I get a bit better control of my cues with it. But if I forget it, they seem to do just as well.

I do use one on the stallion when I breed him, along with a different halter, and then the chain goes over the nose. Again, it isn't because I need it, but he knows when that halter goes on and the chain goes over his nose, he is going to breed a mare - and ONLY then. Maybe that is why he has been breeding and showing practically simultaneously since he was 2, with no problems at all. He is also shown in huner and halter obstace where the chain goes under the chin. The chain is never jerked or used in a harsh manner!!

 

[muffntuf]

There are only a few instances where I use a stud chain is when I am breeding or if a young horse does not respect the lead.

My studs are trained that if the chain is over their nose, it is breeding time. If it is under the chin, loose, its just a normal walk around the farm. It's there if I need it though. But my boys are pretty well behaved. IF someone uses a chain for breeding they need to stay consistent in how they use it so they don't confuse the horse.

For a young horse that doesn't catch on the respect of the lead - it is under the chin and it is used only when they absolutely won't follow directions. Then its a pop on the chain or a back up. It isn't long that they learn to respect a lead and its not needed anymore.

In the ring - some of the bigger breeds have no qualms of using a lead through the mouth, under the chin or over the nose. Although over the nose detracts so you don't see that much around here. IMHO, if you have to use it that drastically, that horse shouldn't be shown.

In the small equine world, I have never seen it used in the ring, only as a training aid.

 

[Minimor]

I do not use stud chains on the Minis. For that matter I never used stud chains on the Morgans, even for breeding. I always used show halters, not bridles, for showing our Morgans, and on some horses--one stallion and a couple headstrong geldings, I would use the show chain over the nose--I'd run it through the far ring, over the nose with one turn over the halter noseband to keep the chain in place, through the near ring & then snap it to its own ring under the chin--making a loop right around the horse's nose--it gave more control than just a plain halter, but didn't apply the force of a chain snapped to the far ring & run across the nose, nor did it have the force of a chain under the chin, run through both rings and snapped back to itself, so that it squeezes tight when you put pressure on the lead. t was mild yet effective

On the minis I've had no reason to use a chain. Even when I bought an unhandled, unmannerly 2 year old stallion--a good sized B--I did not have to resort to a chain to teach him his manners. I just can't imagine having to use a stud chain on any of the smaller ones, unless I were to get one in that was older and has a history of misuse of a stud chain--then I could see him being set in his ways and oblivious to any restraint short of a stud chain...and yes, I have seen too many horses have chains overused on them, and that is why I cringe when I hear someone tell a novice to use a chain to teach manners to their horses.

 

[Matt73]

Stud chains aren't cruel. There not meant as a means to inflict pain per se. I swift, firm reminder with a chain can keep many flighty horses under control. I had a man ask me why I had a chain over my big horses' nose once. He was from the western world and, as far as I know, chains are placed underneath. He said that it would leave a mark and be unsightly. It's not meant to inflict pain or cause injury. Every English horseperson puts a chain over the nose and I've never seen a horse yet with a mark on it. Just struck me as odd that's all.

 

[maestoso]

My yearling stallion is a nutcase. He is all over the place all the time and anyone who thinks that it is because he hasn't been taught manners is welcome to come over to the barn and play with Pogo for a while, and you you'll quickly change your mind. Pogo is young and growing, and if that wasn't enough reason to be a nut his hormones are kicking in hard core. He can't contain himself, literally. He is handled daily, and is obviously not breeding yet. He has been successfully shown, trailers well, etc. I use the "stud" chain under his chin, and then go about my business. I never use it, he uses it himself. If he does anything besides walk quietly beside me he is adding pressure himself, and in turn when he quiets the pressure releases immediately. He seems to know when the chain is there, and he fusses much less. It is simply an extension of the lead. I don't think they are cruel, and if used properly I think they are very effective.

I tend not to use them for showmanship and performance for the simple reason that, I think you'll impress the judge more if you can perform well without it.

 

[txminipinto]

The reason I proposed this question is that I've had several people ask me how I train a horse to do something and then get a little offended when they hear I use a stud chain. Like Nathan, I use my stud chains in the breeding shed. My studs know the difference. On the client owned A stallion, I don't need a chain with him so I don't use it. But on the shetlands, they need that extra reminder that I'm in charge.

On the performance end of it, I see the chain just like I would a bit. I showed stock horses in my youth and you don't walk into the ring without a stud chain on your horse. Halter or Showmanship. It's not cruel, it's an aid. I can get precision hoof placement off a chain that I could never get off a plain halter.

Yes, you can make a chain hurt. Just like you can make a bit hurt, a nylon halter, a rope halter, show halter, end of lead rope, lounge whip, or driving whip hurt. Certain responses I've gotten from people when they see a chain on one of my performance horses has confused me.........I've just never understood why some people would find it cruel in all circumstances.

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

It is traditionally held to use chains under the chin to avoid making marks... however, chin chains encourage the horse to go up. Stallions already have a tendancy to rear, its in their blood. So, I never ever use a chin chain on a stallion unless specifically directed to do so by his owner. I rather have a stallion drop his head rather than throw it up and follow with the legs.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

I think people just hear the words chain and see abusement pop into their heads. I don't see it at all used for abuse, unless you continunsly popping them with it for no freakin reason. I see it as an aid, nothing more or less. To me it just used to get their attention on you, nothing else. I show in a stud chain for performance, I don't necessarily use it but from use to showing big horses I just feel like it compeletes the halter. Oh I also don't use one to train.

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

Well as I see it any aid is cruel if you choose to make it so. Take spurs on riding horses. Some riders can make a rowel-less nub a weapon and others can ride with huge rowels and never do more than suggest. I have never tried a chain in performance classes, I merely based my judgment on what I have seen and that was a handler who tried very hard to drag her horse over jumps and was often seen bumping him when he was lifting off or in mid air. (of course bad handlers do not mean an aid is cruel) I may have to try the chain more for training and see if it make my cues clearer. I believe anything that helps my horse understand me is a GOOD thing and will help him to learn his job quicker.

The aversion you see to chains is probably coming from the same place as the fear of whips. I expect we can thank the movies for a lot of it. Have you ever watched Black beauty? Most movies show the misuse of aids not the benefits.

 

[txminipinto]

This is exactly why certain handlers have rumors spread about them and reputations tarnished. Someone sees an aid that they don't understand the proper use of or have seen it used incorrectly, and then assume that the individual is cruel to the horses in their care. I've gotten that "look" from other exhibitors who either don't have the experience or don't have the knowledge with a certain aid and passed judgement. In reality, if they had taken the time to approach me or anyone else, and inquire about the use, proper application, and how you can use it wrong, I could have taken that time to educate them on another tool that might benefit them and their horse!

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

Very interesting subject. I'm learning a lot from reading all the responses.

I've never used a chain on a mini but I can see where it might be useful - not as an infliction of pain but as a training aid. I did however, always use a chain over my Belgian mare's nose just so I could handle her easier. She weighed 2000lbs and wasn't at all mean, but was just young and had a lot of energy. The chain was a way for me to remind her we were working without me having to throw my back out!

Having only used Corona for breeding I've gotten a bit spoiled. He's such a gentleman and so tiny that I've never had any issues controlling him. Spirit is another story.

He's not got a mean bone in his body but he's all muscle and I'm not very strong. So the first few times I handled him it was a learning experience to say the least. I'm told that one of his previous owners was afraid of him and he learned he could rear and strike and such without any reprimands. Needless to say that lasted about one day here. OH! I have no tolerance for that type of behavior and he was just testing his limits. But after reading this thread I can see the value in using a chain for breeding. It would be a great way to let him know it's time to breed and not time for anything else. I've never used him to tease a mare and I can imagine he wouldn't much like that. He's pretty serious about his job.

 

[Jill]

Yes I have used stud chains. DunIT went through a stage where that was a good tool. Under the chin. NEVER NEVER NEVER over the nose. Didn't have to use it really that many times but got the message through and it came in handy.