Too fat on basically air?!?

[Lil Timber Buck]

Vet says he thinks he's toooooo fat. He's on a dry lot with 2 cups Nutrena special care, 2 cups grass pellet and 2 flakes of hay a day. 1 hour turnout every other day, electrolytes, prefounder vitamin in case, hydrocodone for allergies and elevate brand vitamin E....help!

 

[LostandFound]

Can you cut out all the pellets and give him some more exercise?

 

[MaryFlora]

Hello Lil Timber Buck! He’s beautiful!

Weight of course is a concern and many of us work with this issue too. Everyone has different stabling and resources, giving us different solutions to similar problems. Is your dry lot on the roomy side for ambling around?

Decreasing his feed would be very helpful. This is hard to do sometimes but his feet and joints will thank you! My minis in the summer get 1/2 cup twice a day of 50/50 alfalfa pellets and senior feed. Their hay intake is a bit less. Our winters are extreme and their grain intake in winter doubles with hay becoming free choice.

I’ve also enjoyed walking my minis and have several landmark points of reference to help me track how far we have walked. It has been fun to do and I try to record when we walk but sometimes forget.

DD is my driving pony, and I have also enjoyed ground driving her this summer. It is great fun, and I’m enjoying working on simple things with her. It has toned up her neck and back muscles slightly and definitely improved her breathing when working.

Your mini is lovely and looks well loved!

 

[Abby P]

I agree, he's super cute and I love his coloring!

Two cups of some pellets could be nearly 2lbs, depending on what they are. At the very least, 2 cups is a pound or more - so that's 2-4lbs of food right there just in his bucket. "Flake" is not a meaningful measure for hay, you have to weigh it to know - some flakes are a pound, others are 5lbs! So this could be a LOT of food for a little guy.

I would definitely cut out the grain and most/all of the hay pellets, and switch to a ration balancer or vitamin/mineral supplement instead. That alone will probably just about get you where you need to go.

So, I would weigh all his stuff so you know how much it actually is. If you have an estimate of his current weight and/or what he should weigh, then use that to figure what to feed - 1.5-2% TOTAL is a good place to start. So if he should weigh 300lbs, that's 4.5-6lbs a day total, including hay, pellets, grain, supplements, everything. Skip the grass turnout or muzzle for it (I'm assuming by "turnout" you mean on pasture).

All that said, he's not horribly obese or anything and it doesn't look like he's got much in the way of concerning abnormal fat deposits, so that's all good and I bet just cutting him down to a reasonable amount of food for his size will get you there pretty easily. And good for you for doing it, it's SO much easier to keep ahead of this than try to fix it once it's become a real issue for them.

 

[BSharpRanch]

You will find if you cut out the extra feed, he will lose weight.

I agree, determine what his optimal weight should be and weigh every bit of feed that he gets.

Once he loses the excess weight he will be happier and healthier and it will greatly reduced his chances of getting laminitis.

 

[chandab]

Standard dry measure kitchen cups are an 8oz volume measure; they rarely hold 8oz weight of anything other than water (water is about the only thing that has the same volume and weight, standard measure). I've weighed many feeds, and have yet to weigh any that are 8oz weight to an 8oz volume. Most pelleted feeds are 5-6oz per cup (roughly 3 cups per pound).
Safe dieting is to feed 1.5% of current weight or 2% of ideal weight daily, whichever is greater, making adjustments as weight is lost. So a 300# mini that should weigh 250# would mean to feed 1.5% of 300#, which is 4.5# forage/feed daily or 2% of that 250#, which is 5# forage/feed; so in this case you'd feed 5# daily.
While it may be ideal for horses to have free choice forage, not all horses can have free choice forage without becoming obese. Slow feeders can help slow down consumption and keep forage in front of them longer, without overfeeding.
While dieting little to no extras, but at least a vitamin mineral supplement should be added to the diet to fill in the gaps left by all forages.
I have a couple feed pictures for reference. [The 1 quart scoop is sold as 1 quart, but doesn't seem to hold 4x what 1cup does, as it should.]

 

[Lil Timber Buck]

Can you cut out all the pellets and give him some more exercise?

We exercise on lunge line or long walks 2 times a week but can increase. I feel like less pellets wouldn't get him the nutrients he needs without grass

 

[Lil Timber Buck]

Okay these are all SUPER helpful responses. I guess I thought I was already starving him. I'm afraid with less hay he'll go without forage for hours and chance getting ulcers.

How much of the ration balancer and what brand?
How much hay and what do you weigh it with?

He's 366 pounds per the vet and 36 inches tall at the shoulder so he's a bulkier build like a draft with a wide stance but I don't feel like he's huge. The vet said he's close to founder ?!?! But he said that with no exam other than looking at him. He didn't pick up his feet or do a body pinch etc. There's really no crest etc.

Thanks again everyone!!

 

[MerMaeve]

We exercise on lunge line or long walks 2 times a week but can increase. I feel like less pellets wouldn't get him the nutrients he needs without grass

He is a very handsome guy!
My vet told me for my three minis that they didn’t need much/any grain as they got all vitamins, etc. from the hay, light grass, and a salt lick.

 

[Kelly]

Such a cutie!!

My little fatties are on Enrich Plus ration balancer, their hay goes in .75 inch hole hay nets (measured/weighed), no grass and are on a drylot only.

I use a kitchen scale to weigh everything.

 

[Walt's Fault]

Is he your only mini? Mine is on grass 24/7, unlimited Tifton, Timothy pellets (about 1 quart each) and whatever his big brother drops at breakfast, (the TB gets 3 quarts Nutrens 12% pellet, Nutrina Topline Balancer, glucosamine, hoor supplement and Mare Magic) That being said the three of them, (mini horse, mini donkey and a 16.2 TB) play like kids at a theme park! They play tag and run almost full speed on average 2 hours a day. They play tug-of-war with a big dog rope, balls and traffic cones to the poi t thatmy wife cringes and thinks they are huting eachother. The 2 acres they are in has some very steep elevation changes and lots of obstacles. Have you had your vet do a complete lab workup? Mine get blood and urine labs every year and FEC every 3 months.

 

[Lil Timber Buck]

Is he your only mini? Mine is on grass 24/7, unlimited Tifton, Timothy pellets (about 1 quart each) and whatever his big brother drops at breakfast, (the TB gets 3 quarts Nutrens 12% pellet, Nutrina Topline Balancer, glucosamine, hoor supplement and Mare Magic) That being said the three of them, (mini horse, mini donkey and a 16.2 TB) play like kids at a theme park! They play tag and run almost full speed on average 2 hours a day. They play tug-of-war with a big dog rope, balls and traffic cones to the poi t thatmy wife cringes and thinks they are huting eachother. The 2 acres they are in has some very steep elevation changes and lots of obstacles. Have you had your vet do a complete lab workup? Mine get blood and urine labs every year and FEC every 3 months.

He's my only mini and unfortunately my big guy tried to kill him so that's out for me.

 

[Lil Timber Buck]

Thanks for all the compliments on my little man!!

 

[Standards Equine]

I use oat straw as a free feed for my littles in between the controlled feedings. We use loose minerals in a small amount of beat pulp to keep the calories down.

 

[chandab]

He's 366 pounds per the vet and 36 inches tall at the shoulder so he's a bulkier build like a draft with a wide stance but I don't feel like he's huge. The vet said he's close to founder ?!?! But he said that with no exam other than looking at him. He didn't pick up his feet or do a body pinch etc. There's really no crest etc.

Thanks again everyone!!

How did you measure his height? Remember miniatures are measured to the last hair of the mane, rather than top of the wither like all other equines. How did you measure his weight? Scale at the vet? Weight tape? mathematical calculation? In my experience weight tapes aren't terrible accurate for minis, but are useful for tracking gains and losses.
I use a postal scale to weigh hard feed ("grain", hay pellets, beet pulp, etc). I haven't weighed hay in a very long time, but hanging scales, such as for luggage are useful; you can also just do a little math for a decent estimate; if you know the weight of the bales, count up the number of flakes in a bale and divide, then you know the average weight of a flake in the bale.

Most minis get 1/4-1/2# of a ration balancer daily, depending on the size of the mini and directions for the ration balancer you choose. Larger minis, usually 1/3# daily is sufficient.
Slow feeders are helpful to slow down forage consumption. [Hay nets with 1/2-1" openings.]

 

[Lil Timber Buck]

Is he your only mini? Mine is on grass 24/7, unlimited Tifton, Timothy pellets (about 1 quart each) and whatever his big brother drops at breakfast, (the TB gets 3 quarts Nutrens 12% pellet, Nutrina Topline Balancer, glucosamine, hoor supplement and Mare Magic) That being said the three of them, (mini horse, mini donkey and a 16.2 TB) play like kids at a theme park! They play tag and run almost full speed on average 2 hours a day. They play tug-of-war with a big dog rope, balls and traffic cones to the poi t thatmy wife cringes and thinks they are huting eachother. The 2 acres they are in has some very steep elevation changes and lots of obstacles. Have you had your vet do a complete lab workup? Mine get blood and urine labs every year and FEC every 3 months.

Yes it was normal last time

How did you measure his height? Remember miniatures are measured to the last hair of the mane, rather than top of the wither like all other equines. How did you measure his weight? Scale at the vet? Weight tape? mathematical calculation? In my experience weight tapes aren't terrible accurate for minis, but are useful for tracking gains and losses.
I use a postal scale to weigh hard feed ("grain", hay pellets, beet pulp, etc). I haven't weighed hay in a very long time, but hanging scales, such as for luggage are useful; you can also just do a little math for a decent estimate; if you know the weight of the bales, count up the number of flakes in a bale and divide, then you know the average weight of a flake in the bale.

Most minis get 1/4-1/2# of a ration balancer daily, depending on the size of the mini and directions for the ration balancer you choose. Larger minis, usually 1/3# daily is sufficient.
Slow feeders are helpful to slow down forage consumption. [Hay nets with 1/2-1" openings.]

The weight came from a horse scale at the vet. The height is the last hair like you said. I use the slow feed hay nets. I'll try to find a hanging scale thanks!

 

[chandab]

His ideal weight is probably down around 325#, maybe a little more, depending on his build. [I had a 37" gelding that crossed my scale often keeping track of his condition, as he had Cushings, and it really affected his weight. He was good weight at 350#, obese at 375# and way too thin at 325".]
If we figure the math for dieting based on 2% of ideal weight or 1.5% of current weight; it comes to 6.5# (2% of 325#) or 5.49# (1.5% of 366#), so the greater is 6.5# of forage daily (forage is going to include hay, pasture, hay pellets, hay cubes, beet pulp, etc).

 

[Abby P]

I would cut EVERYTHING else before cutting the hay. So, weigh everything (and Chandab is right, I was having a brain fart, a cup of most pellets is more like a half pound give or take), see where you're at based on this in terms of weight of feed relative to his weight, and go from there.

The idea behind replacing the grain with a ration balancer or VMS is that you get the nutrients he needs without all the extra calories that he doesn't. You aren't getting those anyway from the grain unless you're feeding the recommended amount for his weight, which for most minis is going to just be way too many calories.

Grass and hay are the same thing except that hay has less sugar, generally, than grass. The only thing that is in fresh grass that is lacking in an equivalent hay is vitamin E, which is easy to supplement.

I have to feed free choice hay due to my boarding/life situation, I use the 3/4" hole hay nets from Hayburners and it really does keep him eating just about what he should each day (I weigh them before and after and figure out what he ate per day on average from that), and he's never without hay. So I bet if you weighed out whatever poundage he needs per day, split it into two feedings, and hung it in a small-hole net (the 1" holes didn't slow Rowan down enough, I had to go to 3/4"), he'd have something in front him almost all the time.

 

[LostandFound]

The vet doesn't really need to do any other tests to tell he is overweight, you can see it. And overweight is a risk factor for founder. As far as not getting the nutrients he needs, Most full size horses do fine on nothing but hay. And that is being ridden. Some people like to use a balancer, I haven't ever seen any results with one except that it keeps the horses that don't get grain from tearing down the barn if one needs it.

 

[Firefly in Lovell]

Oh my goodness he's cute! I have used Life Data's Barn Bag for years on horses ranging from Section D Welsh Cobs to Icelandics to Throughbreds to miniatures. The minis get a 1/4 cup per day and it supplies everything they need. It is designed to be fed with whole oats (if more energy is needed for a horse that's really working hard) and good quality grass hay. I feed a mash of 1/3 cup timothy and alfalfa pellets each (dry weight) twice a day. If I feel she's getting a bit chubby, I knock the mash down to once a day, in the AM. In winter I add a couple tablespoons of ground flax and 1/3 cup of beet pulp shreds (no molasses) to the mash. She is on a dry lot and gets hay in a slow feeder. I divide her total hay ration into 4-5 feedings per day. I am retired and keep my horses at home, but I understand the difficulties in dividing feed for folks who work or board but at least the slow feeder helps. Exercise is key...we all need to keep moving! LOL! Best wishes and I hope you can get some of that weight off of him before it becomes a problem.