What exactly is a foundation bred shetland?

[LostandFound]

If your horse has a yellow stamp looking thing on his papers that is supposed to be foundation bred, but what exactly does that mean? Do they have to do anything or prove anything to get it?

 

[chandab]

I'm not sure I fully understand it, but IIRC it's bloodline, they have to be connected to foundation Shetland lines with no outside influence (Hackney was introduced to American Shetlands at one time, giving the Modern type). I'm sure there is more to it, but this is all I've retained.

 

[Minimor]

To be Foundation sealed a pony has to have 4 generations of A papered ponies. If there is a B papered pony in the first 4 generations then the pony cannot be sealed.

 

[LostandFound]

What is an A or B papered pony?

 

[trails4jd]

I'm not sure I fully understand it, but IIRC it's bloodline, they have to be connected to foundation Shetland lines with no outside influence (Hackney was introduced to American Shetlands at one time, giving the Modern type). I'm sure there is more to it, but this is all I've retained.

I was just searching posts and found yours. When the vet came out the other day I commented that Eddy looked more like a horse than my friends' minis. He was a rescue and I have no idea what his background is. The vet commented something about him looking more like he has hackney in his background than shetland. Can you either explain this to me or point me to a source or terms to google. Just interested.

 

[LostandFound]

I finally figured out that a B on a shetlands's registration # means he is crossbred. Shetland pony allowed crossbreeding with hackney ponies to get the type they wanted. Then they stopped labeling them some years back so you have no idea if your pony is purebred or not. So what that means for you is that your mini could be mostly hackney, and still be considered a purebred shetland pony or a miniature horse, or both. Some registries allow or have allowed crossbreeding in the past, but shetland is the only one I have ever heard of who allows partbred ponies to be foundation sealed.

 

[BeckyR]

If your pony has a B on his papers then he cannot have a foundation seal. All horses on the papers must be A papered, same for 1 generation behind the papers. If you breed a B papered pony, then breed his offspring, then breed the resulting foal, continue that enough times and the B designation will finally be far enough back that the pony in front of you is eligible for a seal.

Now of course there are no A or B papers so it requires more research to determine if the pony is Foundation. Do remember that even if the A and B weren't dropped, there would come a time when all ponies would end up being A papered, just because the Bs would become more and more diluted--meaning all ponies would have a low enough percentage of outside (Hackney, Welsh, Americana) blood that they would qualify for A papers.

Also keep in mind that there are breeders who have fudged paperwork to make all their ponies A papered. My friend had a mare with A papers--and qualified for Foundation--her pedigree was all A papered ponies In spite of the fact that she was about 90% Hackney. Someone once contacted her about the mare--they were interested in having her because she was bred similar to a stallion they had and they wanted another "foundation mare with no Hackney breeding". My friend laughed at them and pointed out they had been duped. Big time duped if they believed that mare--and their stallion-- had no Hackney.

 

[LostandFound]

As far as I can tell, there isn't any research involved. Even though the pony should be B, if it's not on there it doesn't count. But how in the world do you fudge the paperwork? All I could think of would be generations of lying about the parents of foals and I can't imagine many people do that.

 

[BeckyR]

Well, there is a certain amount of research when someone pays the $15 (is it $15 now? It was $10 for years but I think it went up?) If sire and dam are not Foundation sealed the someone in the office has to research the pedigree and determine if the pony qualifies.

And yes--some farms do (or did, not sure it is so common any more) fudge papers in that they breed a mare to a Hackney stallion but report the foal as being sired by an ASPC pony. Voila, what should be a B papered pony is now an A papered pony. There is one name on a pedigree--I asked my friend if there are any photos of the pony. She said no, because... she was told that there are something like 4 different Hackneys who have used that set of ASPC papers for breeding purposes. She has always said that if you are friendly with the right old time pony people, they can tell you some interesting stuff about pedigrees. She has told me which Shetlands are actually which Hackneys back on some of the Shetland pedigrees.

I find it all quite fascinating and would have enjoyed being able to sit down with a few old timers and go through some pedigrees. I'm pretty much out of it these days so it isn't likely to happen, but there was a time when I would have been very keen on learning the real pedigrees of the ponies I have known.

 

[LostandFound]

What I meant was that there isn't extra work now that the A and B isn't on there. They still have to do the basic research. I do think it's $15 now. If they are going to make the foundation seal worthless, it should at least be a type.