Who do you think gives mores to the foal?

[JMS Miniatures]

I was reading a interesting article and was curious what you all think. How much influence does the sire or the dam give to the foal. Does one give more than the other or are they both equal? Perhaps we don't give the mare as much credit as she deserves with the resulting foal like we do with the stallion? What do you think?

 

[Jill]

I really don't think there's a set rule for it. I think some stallions are more likely to pass themselves along than others, and ditto regarding some mares.

Plus, think of full siblings and how they can be significantly different.

 

[Miniv]

I agree with Jill. I think it varies on the "couple" in question.

 

[ohmt]

I believe a sire and dam contribute equally when it comes to genetics. Each one passes along one allele for each gene, so every foal has a 50/50 mix of sire and dam. BUT, a foal can look more like the sire or the dam depending on which one passes on more dominant alleles.

As far as disposition, that I am not sure on. I think a mare would be more apt to control a foal's disposition though. Not because of genetics, but because the mare raises the foal-most of my foals mirror their dam's, though not always. I have a few mares that were born in the pasture, raised in the pasture and just don't like people. I rarely have a foal that hates all human contact like they do. My foals are just too curious for that!

 

[Lucky-C-Acres-Minis]

If you're talking physical as in conformation etc. then I think there's no set rule like Jill said, it depends on the crosses and even when crossing the same pair multiple times not every foal is going to look similar, you may have a foal that leans more toward the sire while the next foal from that cross more toward the dam..

However, when dealing with personality/social issues then definitely the dam.. Granted I do believe the sires have some influence on temperament/personality in a foal, but the dams give the most, I feel, to this development as the foal spends around 6 months (depending on weaning age) at his/her dam's side and learns the quirks, behaviors etc. by watching his/her dam..

 

[Jill]

I do agree with you who say that more of the personality comes from the dam -- she raises the foal. However, it just cracks me up to see how much of DAD has been in each of our foals so far. I love it

 

[MyBarakah]

I have always been told and for the most part believe that a mare gives 80% to the off spring. So it's good to have a good stallion but I think it's "crutial" to have a exceptional mare... I have had a couple mares that like to produce a foal that is just like the sire.. but it's the dam that carries the majority in my opinion.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

I have always been told and for the most part believe that a mare gives 80% to the off spring. So it's good to have a good stallion but I think it's "crutial" to have a exceptional mare... I have had a couple mares that like to produce a foal that is just like the sire.. but it's the dam that carries the majority in my opinion.

Well that is what I have pretty much read too, only it said 70%. I think whats important is not to buy just an exceptional stallion and expect to get a awesome foal out of any mare. You need to buy awesome mares find a very good stallion to compliment her faults to get a very nice baby.

When it comes to attitude I mostly have seen the mares pass on her attitude. But if you have a stallion that can pass on a friendly attitude toward his babies thats awesome.

 

[rockin r]

If you're talking physical as in conformation etc. then I think there's no set rule like Jill said, it depends on the crosses and even when crossing the same pair multiple times not every foal is going to look similar, you may have a foal that leans more toward the sire while the next foal from that cross more toward the dam..

However, when dealing with personality/social issues then definitely the dam.. Granted I do believe the sires have some influence on temperament/personality in a foal, but the dams give the most, I feel, to this development as the foal spends around 6 months (depending on weaning age) at his/her dam's side and learns the quirks, behaviors etc. by watching his/her dam..

I very much agree!

 

[Loess Hills]

Several "old" (more than 30 years with horses!)horse people have told us that it is 75% the mare. And in my years of observation I am somewhat inclined to agree.

 

That being said, circumstances vary with different stallions and mares. In some bloodlines the characteristics of the stallion come through generation after generation. But, you have to honor the contributions of a great mare, too.

 

[palsminihorses]

I have always been told and for the most part believe that a mare gives 80% to the off spring. So it's good to have a good stallion but I think it's "crutial" to have a exceptional mare... I have had a couple mares that like to produce a foal that is just like the sire.. but it's the dam that carries the majority in my opinion.

I agree with this statement. When I was raising large appaloosas, I was told that the mare would give 80% to her foals. I've also read about this from some of the best horse breeders!

Pam

 

[disneyhorse]

Genetically speaking, it's pretty much 50/50 although I agree that in some cases the environmental factors of personality and temperament may be affected when raised by the mother.

However, in some cases there are cases where the sire or dam has very strong genetics or a certain trait that "seems" dominant. How many times have you seen a child look SO much like their mom, or SO much like their dad?

And some genetic traits are sex-linked.

There is just too many factors in play during reproduction that a blanket statement will never fit (female gives 80% of genetics, male gives 50% of genetics, whatever).

Andrea

 

[Riverdance]

I have been in horses for many years. Thoroughbreds many years ago, dabbled in Arabians, also years ago, then on to Morgans which I bred for 10 years. Now Minis for 10 years. All the breeders I have been involved with over the many years, have always said to have the best mares one can afford. One, you can always breed out to an outside stallion, but two, the mare makes up 70% of the foal. Many top breeders still say this today. I doubt it is an old wives tail.

Many breeders feel that if they spend the money on a good stallion, they can then go out and buy cheap mares. Then, when the resulting foals grow up to be not so nice adults, people wonder why. Yes, some of these foals do well as weanlings and perhaps yearlings, but after that they go off, way off. I know a breeder who shows mostly weanlings. They do well in the show ring, but then as yearlings they go off for good.

 

[sedeh]

It has always amazed me when I see people that spend major bucks on a nice stallion and then breed him to not so nice mares and expect these wonderful foals. My mare selection is as important if not more so than the stallion. So far I have to say just from my experience the foals all tend to have more of the characteristics and attitude of the dam than the sire. Not that the sire doesn't add anything to the mix but the mares do seem more prepotent.

 

[fastrack]

I think genetics is like playing cards. Each horse is given cards out of a deck. Some have all Aces and can be bred to anything and have a 50% chance of quality. Some have all deuces and are duds in a breeding program.

Everyone tends to look at the stallion. Just because a horse is sired by a well known stallion doesn't have a lot of value to me....unless they can tell me something about the maternal line. A pet peeve of mine is someone calling a horse a brother/sister to so&so...when they only share the same sire.

I put more stock in the maternal line. If there is good production in 3 generations of maternal...she's likely to have some Aces up her.....ah hmm ....sleeve!

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

Interesting topic.

I had a mare, Cappy, who sadly passed earlier this year, but I was always struck by her production "record" and how it never waivered. She produced the SIRE. Every time. I researched all of her foals and it was without exception. If she was bred to a stallion with a pretty head...baby got a pretty head. Bred to an appy...baby was an appy. Bred to a stallion with a long back...yep, baby had a long back. She always intrigued me that way.

 

[attwoode]

Well, here is what I remember from genetics class - forgive me if I'm rusty:

The mare and stallion each provide 50% of the genes to the foal, with the exception of mitochondrial DNA which is always transferred from mare to foal in the egg. Mitochondrial DNA has to do with cell metabolism and things like that rather than the typical physiological traits. So technically a foal does get more genes from the mare, but not generally affecting visible traits we are talking about.

As in any other cross of two parents, the visible traits have to do with dominant and recessive genes,the consistency of his/her own genetic makeup (heterozygous vs. homozygous for each pair of alleles), and the incredible number of combinations that can occur in the sex cells of the parents. This is where in/line breeding can create prepotency for traits, whether good or bad. The more homozygous or dominant the parents's genes are- the more likelyhood that the foal will get the trait. Some horses have many dominant genes for certain traits and their foals most often will express those traits when bred to another horse with less dominant genes. For example, a mare that always has produced straight legs when bred to various stallions is likely carrying fairly dominant genes for the numerous physical traits that produce straight legs. She may, however, always produce the head of the stallion or one that is better or worse than hers.

In my opinion it is not as simple as 50/50 and is not always 80/20 or any other percentage. It boils down to the consistency of genes that each of the parents got from their parents and the relative dominance of the genes over those of the other parent.

Now to muddy the water even more...Visible traits of a horse can be genetic or environmental. For example, straight legs are more common in horses that are properly trimmed and in horses whos parents have strait legs. Some horses that would have normally have straight legs can go crooked becasue of poor trimming and horses with poor leg conformation can often be improved with good trimming. The behavioral traits such as personality and herd status are likely hugely affected by learned behavior and therefore these traits may follow the mare (with whom the foal spends more time)more often than the stallion.

Ok,so even if I got all of this information fairly correct it doesn't answer your question because it always depends on some factors that you cannot see. It is dependant on each horse. The only way to know how consistent foals are out of a mare or stallion are is to have lots of foals with many different pairings and look at the results.

Or maybe the mare does give 80% to the foal.

That would be way less confusing and complicated

 

[HGFarm]

I personally think that technically it's 50/50- however some genes are just more dominant and come through- doesnt mean they have MORE genes from one parent or the other- just that some are dominant and some are not. Breeding a mare to one stallion may allow some genes to show up and breeding to another stallion stifles those genes, so it's a crap shoot but I think it would be physically impossible to actually inherit MORE genes from one parent than another- it's just the dominant/recessive thing