1st time hooked to cart

[candycar]

This is the first time we have hooked Jelly Bean to the cart. I know some things are messed up. Our street has a slight incline to it and there isn't a level place to be found

So all pics are either going up or going down.

Please help by letting me know where adjustments should be made.

I am concerned about where the shafts are. Too low or ok? I think they are also too far forward, how big a deal is this? I'd hate to move the shaft stops, but will if it's better. . How's the breeching? Something seems off there as well. Let me have it! I can take it.

Jelly Bean did real well for the first time, no fuss at all, even with our incompetence. She may even enjoy it!

If anyone would like to come over and help us we are "always open"!

 

[Genie]

Shafts look a little too far forward.

Is that the halters' nose piece and if so, then at the Amber Kildow clinic she would suggest a caveson.

We don't use britching here for showing.

Where you have the belly band is correct according to the clinic, as further ahead and behind the front legs can pinch her legs.

The straps to the whiffle tree look a little slack and with backing and going ahead it would cause the breast piece to smack her, but it also looks like you have some padding on the breast piece so it should not bother her too much.

Amber doesn't mind padding on thre chest but not on the back pad.

 

[nbark]

to me your breeching looks too high, might try lowering one hole on each side and seeing if that looks a little better.

The shafts do look a bit long, going past the shoulder, but someone else should comment on this.

I am still a little green on the issue of shaft lengths...sorry.

 

[krissy3]

everything looks good to me , cart seems to be hooked up correctly , and the right size for her. She looks relaxed and very comfortable pulling it . Brest band looks to be in the right place, and the breeching. I like the 2nd picture best , she looks good. Very nice horse you have there. Looks like she did very well for her first day .

well now looking back at the photo, the shafts could go back a little . I think the breeching is OK , I never used mine except when we were on the trail. I never used it in pleasure driving

 

[Al B]

Pictures are always deceiving but IMHO ( my advice is worth what you paid for it )

I would move him forward one hole in the traces. The shaft tip being behind the shoulder is preferrable to being in front. Forget where the tug stops are. If they're in the right place fine. Adjust the shafts for the proper position and hook the tugs where the need to be.

I would move the tugs up one hole. The cart is a bit low and you might look better with 24" wheels instead of the 20" ones.

The breeching seems to be at the right height but maybe a bit tight.

I prefer a headstall with blinders.

I can't tell if you have a cavesson but I like it right under the cheek bone.

Other than those personal preferrences, he looks good.

JMHO.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Aah, you have my cart...they are great fun, aren't they??

OK, let's start at the front.....since I applaud your lack of blinders I have to ask why the check??

He doesn't need it and it is interfering with his ability to pull as the bottom picture clearly indicates.

Right, I think you have the breast collar in just about the right place, maybe a fingers breadth too high, but I don't think so.

Yes, the shafts are too far forward, it will interfere with his ability to turn the cart easily so you will have to sort that out, even if it does mean major changes!!

Yes the shafts are too low, so ditto above.

The breaching is a little high....actually it's not all that much too high at the back, but it is at the front...can you see it is not even, is that just because it has moved, or is it a bit too small for his backside (maybe it's just making his bum look big??

)

Altogether no a bad effort for hitching but please please do not attempt any more actually moving him around til you have it all right and also, PLEASE stand closer to him and have someone at his head all the time.

With a green horse it takes the blink of an eye to, quite literally, upset the apple cart and I would rather train form totally unhandled ten horses, than attempt to retrain one that has had an accident in harness!!!

 

[Keri]

The shafts need to be raised so they are more level with her shoulder (should almost sit in-line with the breast collar tugs). I would also bring her breast collar strap so that it sits behind the hook on the saddle and off her neck.

 

[candycar]

Wow! thanks for the suggestions so far! Please keep 'em coming!

We are using an open western style bridle for now. The check is so she doesn't try to eat when we are on the grass. 1/2 of our training area is lawn with the other 1/2 pavement. She has had 5 years of daily hand grazing and thinks whenever she "goes out front" it's time too eat. We do have a "real" bridle, just don't think we need it yet. If you all don't mind, I'll update in a couple of days with suggestions incorporated. Thanks!

 

[Margo_C-T]

You have a lot of things right, a few things need adjusting.

Yes, the shafts project a bit too far forward; their tips should be about even with the point of the horse's shoulder--as Al said, try lengthening the traces by one slot. When you do, you will find that you need to readjust the breeching holdback straps.

Yes, the shafts are a bit low; raise the tugs(tug loops) by one hole (when you do, you will find you need to readjust the wrap straps!) Shafts should be level to inclined SLIGHTLY upward, back to front; there is no 'hard and fast' rule about them 'lining up' with the traces; in fact, this happens only in carts like the EE(easy entry) pictured, where the singletree is mounted about level with the shafts. Better is a lower 'line of draft' (draught),but such is seldom found in 'pipe' carts, such as the Frontiers and other EE carts.

The breastcollar is a bit LOW; try raising it by a hole, maybe two. It should rest JUST where the neck 'joins' the chest, and should NOT rest directly 'on' the point of the shoulder.

DON'T put the breastcollar neck strap over the waterhook on the harness saddle, and DON'T do without the breeching! Such things are ONLY for the roundy-round on firm, level ground of the breed show ring, where you will find many if not most, horses actually pulling the cart off the harness saddle, via the tugs(tug loops), and not the breastcollar, via the traces, as they SHOULD. EVERY horse should be trained to accept and understand breeching; it can be 'removed' for (breed) showing, but is a GREAT benefit to the horse pulling a typical two-wheeled cart in the 'real world' of driving. It is essentially your BRAKES! (You WILL see harness w/o breeching in the ADS pleasure world, but ONLY with 4 wheeled vehicles with BRAKES- which are balanced, and pull, quite DIFFERENTLY than two wheeled carts, with only the RAREST exceptions.)

The open bridle is fine, at least to start with. There ARE good reasons for using blinders, however. Blinders are required in the show ring, too--so it is best for the horse to accept them, if possible.

A caveson's actual 'legitimate' purpose is to keep the cheekpieces of the bridle from flexing outward, possibly allowing a horse to 'peek' behind its blinders, which *might* be a safety issue, so it might be best to use one, but adjusted high, as Al mentioned and reasonably snug(not TIGHT; its purpose is NOT to 'prevent' the horse from being able to open its mouth, as some think!)

A moderately adjusted side check is a perfectly legitimate way to aid in preventing a horse from trying to reach down to 'grab a bite'; once you are further along in training, it should be largely unneccessary.

It looks like your harness has 'wrap straps'; just be sure that they are not adjusted so that they are so tight that they exert downward pressure on the shafts, but do keep the shafts from 'flying' upward as you mount/dismount the cart. Once the driver is seated in the cart, you should be able to see that there is only a little 'weight' on the shafts as they rest in the tug loops. Ideal is for the shafts to lightly 'float' in the tug loops, but that is harder to tell about w/ wrap straps. In my experience, many people 'overtighten' the wrap straps.

Overall, looks as if you are off to a good start! Congratulations....

Margo

Driving and training to drive since 1985, and still gaining additional knowledge almost daily.....

 

[Keri]

Remember to always listen to your horse. Some horses like things to sit at a certain height or tightness versus others. I've trained various cart horses and they are not the same. We had a riding gelding growing up that if you tightened the cinch on the saddle where it should be, be prepared for a rodeo.

Lots of advice. I do train mine for show. So you'll want to watch the harnessing practices for the place you'll do cart (whether it be show, CDE or fun). And your little guy will tell you what they like too (not all are meant to show or do CDE or even pull a cart). But most of all....Have fun!!!

 

[Laura Leopard]

One suggestion with a green horse. It's fine to lead them, but please also have someone ground driving behind too with the driving lines. If she were to spook you would loose control fast and with the cart attached it would be dangerous. Good luck...driving is a blast.

 

[Connie Ballard]

I agree with Al... would also like to mention, I'd slip a thin barn halter under that bridle so you'd have more control than a loop around his neck. It is good to use a "3rd hand" when starting your horse too...have someone holding a long lead rope at the side while you walk behind the cart ground driving him. If he gets upset at noise or something feeling strange and spooks....you have the control of the lines/bit....and your helper (3rd hand person)....has the barn halter/lead to help control the situation.

They are right driving is a blast.....and it is always easier and faster to do it the safe way.....than trying to reschool one when we miss a step in starting a green horse.

ENJOY!!!!

 

[krissy3]

Remember to always listen to your horse. Some horses like things to sit at a certain height or tightness versus others. I've trained various cart horses and they are not the same. We had a riding gelding growing up that if you tightened the cinch on the saddle where it should be, be prepared for a rodeo.

Lots of advice. I do train mine for show. So you'll want to watch the harnessing practices for the place you'll do cart (whether it be show, CDE or fun). And your little guy will tell you what they like too (not all are meant to show or do CDE or even pull a cart). But most of all....Have fun!!!

I also agree with Laura.. I would ground drive behind that cart for a while , and have a header.. Its not fun to have them take off with you because they spook on the wheel getting stuck in a pot hole. I also agree with Keri on listening to the horse... They have comfort zones too that might not be where you want the placement of the harness. If the shafts are in front , it could spook him as he turns, and make it difficult to turn. Always look at the body language of your horse , and you will know what is comfortable for her too. Licking and chewing ...all a good sign of being happy , and accepting this silly thing you have hooked her too.I think she looks relaxed though.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

OK, she has a halter on, not a rope round her neck, that much is obvious form the photos.

As for the check??

I train entirely on grass and have never, nor shall I ever use a check of any kind.

Tell him "no", he cannot eat with his bit in and that is the end of it, it is merely discipline and he will understand.

When he goes out to graze he does not have a cart behind him and a bit in his mouth....my point is, if you are relying on something that is obviously making him uncomfortable now, and then intend to take it off later, why wait??

Not sure about the breast collar, Margo, I do not think it is too high, but this is a green horse and it is hard to judge form pictures so I'd just leave it where it is as the shaft height and the breeching is far more important.

A horse trained without blinkers will usually accept them OK for the short time you are in the show ring, but if you use them all the time it is hard to take them off again, so if you do not want to use them and he is happy without, don't put them on.

Luckily I do not have to worry about rules that force me to do things my horses neither like nor need, so I can show without check or blinkers.

If you are not going to show and your horse does not need them, which he would not appear to do, I would advise you to keep on as you are.

 

[krissy3]

I had blinders because it came attached to the halter when I purchased it .... but they never fit right , and poked my horse in the eye.. I hated them , but thought it was a nessassery standard. If I had it to do over again , I would cut them off with a swiss army knife and burn them... (only my oppinion)

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I just chuck the whole bridle in the tack chest and leave it there...a nice little in hand showing bridle does the job far better than cutting the blinkers off, besides, if I order from the States I have also to cut off the flipping check thing, so I just use another bridle!!

 

[midnight star stables]

Shafts look a little too far forward.Is that the halters' nose piece and if so, then at the Amber Kildow clinic she would suggest a caveson.

We don't use britching here for showing.

Where you have the belly band is correct according to the clinic, as further ahead and behind the front legs can pinch her legs.

The straps to the whiffle tree look a little slack and with backing and going ahead it would cause the breast piece to smack her, but it also looks like you have some padding on the breast piece so it should not bother her too much.

Amber doesn't mind padding on thre chest but not on the back pad.

Actually if memory serves me right, it is the back pad that can have padding. Often times harnesses have pointy parts under the back pad which can hurt the horse. I personally, have not used a chest pad, but always use a back pad, no matter the harness. I think of it like riding, you always use a saddle pad, but not a chest pad when you use a breast collar.

This is just my opinion, and I don't think it has hurt me in the ring, but to each their own. If you aren't even showing, I would go right ahead a drive with both pads

I think everyone else has hit the nail on the head. I would just move the shafts back and up a slight bit. Happy Driving

 

[candycar]

UPDATE 19 June

We raised the shafts 1 hole, does it look like enough? Also moved her forward, much better there. Our street is really not level! she is either pulling uphill or holding back with the breeching going down hill. The lawn is a little better but still hard to work on. We only have us two to work her, and hubby is too big for her to pull right now. I did sit in the cart (with reins) and we went up and down the street a little with him as header to see how the cart was balanced. It seemed good and she was happier with me in the cart and balanced than pulling with it pressing on her back. Am I making sense?

Going uphill

Going downhill you can see the traces are real loose! Is the breeching hitting too low or ok?

Are we there yet? Anything else to adjust for now? BTW we are not going to show, this is all for pleasure and enjoyment.

 

[Al B]

Just a couple of nits that I would do. Move the saddle a bit forward up against the withers so that it's off her back and the cinch is off her chest. Adjust the back carrier strap of the breeching up 1 hole to make it level and get the breeching strap up a bit.

Get in and drive her and have fun

 

[Margo_C-T]

I pretty much agree w/ Al...in the bottom update pic, the harness saddle IS too far back, but remember not to move it as far forward as a riding saddle would sit--it is a common mistake to have the harness saddle too far 'forward'! The front of it should rest a bit behind the 'base' of the withers; this will also allow the girth to be far enough behind the elbows so as not to pinch or bind the skin there.

And, yes, the breeching as shown IS a bit too low; it should lie just below the 'swell' or 'point' of the buttock. Too high, and you risk it getting up under the tail; too low, and there is a risk that it can 'sweep' the horses hind legs out from under it when the breeching is 'engaged'.

The bottom update photo clearly illustrates the benefit of the breeching---that is what it is FOR! And yes, the traces WILL become somewhat 'slack' when the breeching is engaged. When you don't have brakes, the breeching is what is MADE to keep the vehicle from 'running up on' the horse's rear end when traveling down hill, stopping, or backing!

Looks like you are 'well on your way' to 'driving for pleasure'--ENJOY, ENJOY, ENJOY!

Margo