2 year old colt is confounding me!

[weebiscuit]

I've had horses on one size or another for almost 50 years. I've never had a problem halter training and I've saddle trained most of my riding horses as well. Then along comes this little miniature colt that I have, and he's driving me nuts!

I can go out into his dry lot, pasture, or stall, with the halter right out there in the open, and he stands beautifully to let me put it on him. If he's in dry lot, way down at the other end, he'll even come across the lot to me, standing there with the halter, so I can put it on. Then the problems start. When we start to walk he pushes into my leg really hard. He's literally shoving me with his body, and won't walk properly at all. This is going on two years of this! I have tried everything my aging brain can think of.

I've lunged him. I've had him "whoa" and then stood in front of him. Perfect. If I walk backwards, keeping my face towards him, he keeps his distance. That's a pretty stupid way to lead a horse, though! LOL! Once I turn and face the direction we're heading, then he's right on my leg again. I keep shoving him over with my leg and he's right back there. I've tried carrying a riding crop and slapping him lightly on his neck to move him over. I've tried using the crop as a stick, pushing him away from me. I've tried stopping him and making him stand next to, but not touching me and he's fine. Then I step out and he steps into me. I've tried having my husband hook another lead rope to him, and we both walk at the ends of the leads with the horse in the middle, each of us using enough pressure so the horse has to stay in the middle and not on our legs. That's not easy to do and we gave up on that pretty quick!

Any ideas how to overcome this?

 

[Molly's Run Minis]

"puts on flame suit"

ok, this is what my grandfather did when we had a draft that would knock us over. this behaviour IS dangerous, whether its a mini or draft.

anyway, this is what he did

he put some nails through a small peice of wood, not all the way though! just enough so that the tip was sticking out and the nail couldnt fall out. you hold that on your side while your walking the horse and when the horse goes to push into you he will get poked by the nails and will move over. you only have to do this a few times before the horse will get that pushing into you=pokes. i had to use it on a pushy mini gelding as well and it worked, after he nocked me down for the second time while i was walking him i had had enough. it didnt scare or hurt him, but it taught him that you cant knock people down whenever you want grass.

let the flaming begin!

 

[ohmt]

We've had this problem too. I use poking and usually that does the job, but the ones that stick with it I do some giving into pressure training. What I do is tie the horse up, say 'over' and put pressure with my hand on their hip. As soon as the horse even move a hoof over I give praise and a treat. I keep doing that for a while and then move to the shoulder when they've got it down doing the same thing. You may need to use the poking method again (be firm with the poking). He'll learn what over means and what you want when you put pressure on his hip and shoulder. It takes a while, but it always works

hope that helps!

 

[valshingle]

I have noticed that horses either move away from pressure or move into it. Most move away, but there are those few who like to be different.

I've also noticed that young horses tend to lean into you when being led. I think this is a security issue as it seems to go away with age and mileage.

Which of the two your colt is doing ~ I'm not sure.

My avatar horse is one who moves into pressure; and for some reason he really does it when being bathed and is soaking wet (read mild body slams). In self preservation during baths I found that holding the sweat scraper (the long plastic type) and using it periodically does the trick. It seems to make a rather loud slapping noise. In fact, he no longer tries anything when he sees the sweat scraper. You might be able to think of other things that are noisy, but safe. Please realize that I never hit the horse hard enough to hurt, just enough to get the point across.

Here is a dog trick (I used to show 100+ lb dogs). A friend had a dog that leaned on her continually while heeling. She took a prong dog collar, reversed it so the prongs were facing out and placed it around her thigh. She never moved into the dog herself, but if he leaned on her he leaned against the prongs. The prongs are dull, but uncomfortable. It worked and the dog went on to win his obedience title.

 

[bluerogue]

I've used the poking myself. I started off using my thumb, but I was jamming my thumbs and it hurt. So I bought a small riding crop. I turn it around, so the bat part is facing me (the "noisemaker" part- usually ends up in front of my thighs). I leave just enough of the end of the handle sticking out of my hand that if they move into me, they get poked by the crop handle instead. Worked really well. If they get REALLY bad, I've got a whip in my hand, and can smack them lightly. It usually takes a good couple of lessons, but they learn to not ram into me, or lean on me, while walking. Some require refreshers from time to time.

It is extremely important that my horses not do this. It's a dangerous behavior for me... my right knee dislocates when I walk. It is very easy to knock me over, especially from my left side. If my knee dislocates while I'm with the horses, I've got them all trained to stop and stand by me. They'll even help me up, if I fall. I do try to do what I can to keep the incidents from happening. Nowadays with the horses, it's usually that I've tripped over something, and that dislocates it. It doesn't take much to trip me now... sidewalks, a piece of hay, empty space, my other foot.....

 

[Riverrose28]

The first thing I would do is get the Vet to examine his left eye! I had a colt that would walk into me and it was because he was blind in that eye. He was sold to use that way and the seller didn't say a word, he was bought to be a show horse and I couldn't figure out why he was always running into me while being led. Then if his eye is fine go on with the poking.

 

[ruffian]

Another trick I've used is to put the lead over the neck to his right side. Then when he crowds you can pull him off. Onces he's over where he should be, you can release with lots of praise and petting.

 

[Jill]

I've also had this issue with some of our minis. I take my thumb and kind of jab them with it when they get closer than I want and keep "poking" them until they put some space where it belongs. I say "get" sternly while doing it. That seems to get the point across. I've had mixed feelings about why they do it. I don't know if it's a control issue. where they want to encroach into your space to see if you'll let them, or an insecurity issue, ... I think probably the first but am not sure.

 

[wingnut]

By no means an expert here, but I'll relay my experiences thus far.

Our now three yr old would practically walk on my right foot with how closely she wanted to walk by me when she first came to us as a yearling. Using the poke method, she improved some but still had a lot of work to do as a two year old. Now as a three year old? She magically stays where she belongs. With the exception of when we're practicing our ground work "ring walking" and I move us into a trot when she doesn't want to! I just got real firm with her and resumed poking until she knocked it off. As a three yr old, I think some of it is she has more confidence so she doesn't need to be as close to me now.

Our two 2-yr olds are doing the same as their bigger sister. They're better than when they were weanlings/yearlings but still have some way to go. The younger of the two is far less confident then the other and she is the one who is now practically walking on my right foot unless she's corrected.

Good luck getting him there!

 

[Field-of-Dreams]

"puts on flame suit"

ok, this is what my grandfather did when we had a draft that would knock us over. this behaviour IS dangerous, whether its a mini or draft.

anyway, this is what he did

he put some nails through a small peice of wood, not all the way though! just enough so that the tip was sticking out and the nail couldnt fall out. you hold that on your side while your walking the horse and when the horse goes to push into you he will get poked by the nails and will move over. you only have to do this a few times before the horse will get that pushing into you=pokes. i had to use it on a pushy mini gelding as well and it worked, after he nocked me down for the second time while i was walking him i had had enough. it didnt scare or hurt him, but it taught him that you cant knock people down whenever you want grass.

let the flaming begin!

No flames here, it's a good trick but we use a wire bristle dog hairbrush. Don't poke him with it, just let him lean into it. Fasten onto your body where he leans so you don't have to use one hand to hold it.

Our ASPC/AMHR stallion is a leaner. His problem is that he is scared. He's a nervous sort. Once he relaxes he shifts away, up until then be prepared to walk sideways for a while.

 

[chandab]

No flames here, it's a good trick but we use a wire bristle dog hairbrush. Don't poke him with it, just let him lean into it. Fasten onto your body where he leans so you don't have to use one hand to hold it.

Our ASPC/AMHR stallion is a leaner. His problem is that he is scared. He's a nervous sort. Once he relaxes he shifts away, up until then be prepared to walk sideways for a while.

I like the wire bristle brush idea, I'll have to remember that, as I have a leaner. [i also have a lagger, which really drives me nuts; but got him from my inlaws and they teach all their big horses to walk behind, so of coarse that's what they taught the little guy when they inherited him.

]

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

"puts on flame suit"

ok, this is what my grandfather did when we had a draft that would knock us over. this behaviour IS dangerous, whether its a mini or draft.

anyway, this is what he did

he put some nails through a small peice of wood, not all the way though! just enough so that the tip was sticking out and the nail couldnt fall out. you hold that on your side while your walking the horse and when the horse goes to push into you he will get poked by the nails and will move over. you only have to do this a few times before the horse will get that pushing into you=pokes. i had to use it on a pushy mini gelding as well and it worked, after he nocked me down for the second time while i was walking him i had had enough. it didnt scare or hurt him, but it taught him that you cant knock people down whenever you want grass.

let the flaming begin!

That's called "self punishment" and was exactly what I was going to suggest.

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

I have noticed that horses either move away from pressure or move into it. Most move away, but there are those few who like to be different.

Believe it or not, but that's actually natural. We have to train them to move AWAY from pressure, but the natural inclination is to move INTO pressure. Don't ask me why!

 

[hobbyhorse23]

...I've also noticed that young horses tend to lean into you when being led. I think this is a security issue as it seems to go away with age and mileage....

Here is a dog trick (I used to show 100+ lb dogs). A friend had a dog that leaned on her continually while heeling. She took a prong dog collar, reversed it so the prongs were facing out and placed it around her thigh. She never moved into the dog herself, but if he leaned on her he leaned against the prongs. The prongs are dull, but uncomfortable. It worked and the dog went on to win his obedience title.

I completely agree with the excellent advice you've gotten here. Your horse is essentially young and insecure (judging from his respectful actions in other positions), should be checked for eyesight issues, and will probably grow out of it with time and confidence. Meanwhile, use self-punishment techniques like the nail board, prong dog collar or wire brush secured to your leg. That way you are not the bad guy incomprehensibly pushing him away to stand (frighteningly) by himself, it just becomes uncomfortable for him to push into you so hard and he'll learn on his own that physically pressing against you like that isn't the way to go. Then you don't have to be the bad guy and the horse gets a lesson they understand.

My two year old did this when being clipped or groomed although he was fine for leading. He'd get it in his head that he was swinging his butt over towards you and you could hit him, knee him, poke him, get big and wave your arms and make him think he was going to die...it didn't matter. NOTHING was getting him to stop knocking you over! It really ticked me off. I spent forever teaching yielding to pressure and clicker training him for turning his head towards me and body away but when he'd get stubborn and upset and stop thinking he was right back knocking me over. He only did this when he was frustrated and annoyed. I'll be honest- neither positive training techniques nor deciding to be more stubborn and dumb than he was worked. What worked was time. Now that he's almost three all those lessons on yielding his hindquarters, turning to face me and stepping over are finally working and while he still tries to run me over, he'll actually stop when I poke him and immediately moves the other way.

Sometimes they just need to grow up and the best you can hope for meanwhile is a truce!

Believe it or not, but that's actually natural. We have to train them to move AWAY from pressure, but the natural inclination is to move INTO pressure. Don't ask me why!

I read somewhere that it's an instinctive self-preservation thing- an animal who tries to leap away from pressure is only going to help a predator rip open their flanks. If they move into the pressure, they may force the predator to release their grip without successfully ripping out intestines.

Leia

 

[Reble]

Not sure if this would help, but when he leans into you, make him walk backwards, say back back back.. than try again, they hate to back and might just help, until he relates leaning with a consequence. the other ideals are great.

 

[HGFarm]

I agree that I have noticed a lot of it seems to be security issues with a youngster, however, hopefully it wont develope into a lifelong habit! Excellent advice here of 'self punishment' ideas to make it uncomfortable for him to do this.

 

[weebiscuit]

The first thing I would do is get the Vet to examine his left eye! I had a colt that would walk into me and it was because he was blind in that eye. He was sold to use that way and the seller didn't say a word, he was bought to be a show horse and I couldn't figure out why he was always running into me while being led. Then if his eye is fine go on with the poking.

The eye was one of the things I thought of early on. It's not his eye. He's got vision in it. Good suggestion, though!

 

[weebiscuit]

We've had this problem too. I use poking and usually that does the job, but the ones that stick with it I do some giving into pressure training. What I do is tie the horse up, say 'over' and put pressure with my hand on their hip. As soon as the horse even move a hoof over I give praise and a treat. I keep doing that for a while and then move to the shoulder when they've got it down doing the same thing. You may need to use the poking method again (be firm with the poking). He'll learn what over means and what you want when you put pressure on his hip and shoulder. It takes a while, but it always works

hope that helps!

Funny how much a person can be around horses and just forget the stupidest things! I *always* taught my riding horses to move over! Always! It was so nice when I was in a stall with them and they were blocking the door, to just tap a hip and say "over" and have them move. Now WHY didn't I think of this approach with this little booger? Thanks! I'm starting tomorrow!

One thing I've noticed is that he isn't too bad when I halter him in his stall in the morning and lead him to his dry lot. He will still sometimes push into me, but on the whole he's just better. When I'm getting ready to bring him into the barn at night is when we have a big problem. He'll come right up to me in the dry lot. He'll stand very nicely when I get him haltered, but as soon as I open the gate we have problems. Now I'm starting to wonder if it's because when he comes into the barn at night he knows there's warm, soaked beet pulp and grain waiting for him and he just wants at it???

Tonight when I got him out of his dry lot, we enter another very large dry lot before we go into the barn. I had a short whip with me and I put a longer lead on him. Each time he pushed into me I let out the lead and lunged him. Then I'd make him whoa and just stand there. He was very good about it. But as soon as I started walking he was shoving into me again! Gah! It would be funny if I weren't so frustrated!

 

[JMS Miniatures]

Ok here is my suggestion. He's not respecting your personal space. Plain and simple. You say at times he's fine when you lead in front of him but when your facing him, and thats good, but when you turn around he's all over your heels. First of all yes leading from behind isn't necessary but I think its a good thing still to learn. If he walks all over you from leading behind make him back up, really hustle those feet and don't be nice about it. When you walk from the side since he is pushing more with his shoulder I would make his shoulder move by making him piviot away from you again really make him hustle, and I would teach that on both sides.

Remeber horses learn from the release of pressure so I would defintelly increase your pressure with whatever you choose. I would just continue using the riding crop and make him move away from me. I'm just not sure if steady pressure would work in this situation, but driving pressure is what you may need.

Good luck!

 

[jegray21]

Believe it or not, but that's actually natural. We have to train them to move AWAY from pressure, but the natural inclination is to move INTO pressure. Don't ask me why!

I agree with this. They have to learn to move away from pressure and be accepting of it. I like using the but end of the whip.