2nd follow up check for Sophie

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Frankie

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In case you hadn't read about her.

Severe rotation in all 4 feet in small amount of time. Purdue stated the cause as Altered Glucose Levels.

Since being home this is the 2nd time the vet has seen her.

Somehow,,,,,,being on only very small amount of grass only hay, and weight loss.

Her rotation is still active. And now sinking in her front 2 feet.

Now what?????

She is walking around good this morning. But I saw where the founder is, and how wide, farrier was also out. I just don't even know how she is standing.

Wedges are going back on her feet for now,,,,,will keep a close eye on her and schedule x-rays again for next week.

With her, I struggle with the right thing. I just hope I continue to make decsions based on the right thing.
 
Oh dear, I'm sorry to hear this. Listen to Sophie, Caro, she'll tell you, just listen.
 
I'm so sorry to hear this. :no: I know you've gone through soooo much with Sophie already. I'll put her in my prayers again.
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Carolyn,

Don't know if it would help Sophie or not, but maybe you can run it by your vet...

My silver mare foundered last spring with rotation (16 degrees front, 13 degrees rear); she spent more time laying down than standing in February. I honestly thought I was going to lose her. I changed her diet; for 6 months she was on grass hay pellets (very low NSC), very limited grass hay and her diet balancer. She was also on B-L pellets for a couple months or more to control her discomfort (they are less upsetting to the stomach). She is now back on a normal diet; grass hay and her ration balancer and doing very well. Anyway, to the product that may help... My mare has been on a small dose of Remission since August of last year (I feed her 1 tsp, once per day - the small end of the enclosed scoop); her last hoof trim, her hooves were nearly normal, no discoloration. [Ok, not quite normal, since her rotation, her hooves have become very upright; but the hoof wall and sole is healthy.] Remission is manufacturer by Animed for Foundered and founder-prone horses; its a mineral supplement. I'll try to link to the website:

http://www.animedproducts.com/hvitaminmineral.html

Half-way down the page is the Remission info.

And, hopefully the link to the Remission PDF page will work:

http://www.animedproducts.com/images/Remis..._Comparison.pdf

Here's a link to the Yahoo Founder forum:

http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/equine-founder/

I've only posted a few times to the group, but there is a lot of useful information in the archives and files; well worth joining as far as I'm concerned.

Get well soon wishes for Sophie.
 
Carolyn, Sophie is standing and walking only to please you.... she is really struggling. What is her quality of life with her diet what it has to be and her losing weight...... to what end? I know you really lover her but just ask her and read her eyes..... Please people dont send me hate mail for saying this but I just really felt I had to.

Lyn
 
Oh sweetheart. This is so sad. That poor horse. I would have to agree with some of the other posters here. Read her eyes. Her life must be so sorrowful and painful.

My thoughts are with you. xox
 
[SIZE=14pt]I have seen foundered/rotated horses do GREAT after having the tendons that pull the coffin bone cut... it requires a LOT of after care....... but the horses ARE RIDABLE (large horses) after about a year....[/SIZE]

April
 
I'm so sorry to hear her rotation is still progressing. Have you heard of Re-Leve? All the research for the feed was done through Kentucky Equine Research. We've started to carry it at our store. It is a specialty feed extremely low in starch. The way the rep explained it that is was basically "prescription" low in starch. Here is a link about it.

Re-Leve Feed
 
Sorry to hear that Sophie is continuing to have troubles. Everyone is right, she'll tell you when she has had enough.
 
I am not an expert, but I do have some experience with trimming a friend’s Arab mare that was severely foundered. There was significant rotation, but I don’t know the exact number of degrees. The vet, and the special farrier that the vet uses, both agreed that the mare was ‘doomed’. They predicted that her coffin bone would penetrate her sole in a week or two. They were both ready to put her down, but my friend wasn’t willing to do that. She looked around for other options and opinions. She found the Yahoo Founder Forum that has been mentioned, and got some good contacts from there. The mare is now basically sound, and apparently pain-free.

I know what worked for this mare, and in one way it seems to be the complete opposite of the protocol that your farrier and vet are advocating for Sophie. We were advised to lower the heels as much as possible, and you are being told to use wedges to raise the heels. I’m not saying that your vet and farrier are wrong, but I am suggesting that if you aren’t happy with the results that you are getting, that you might consider other farrier/trimming options before you make a decision to euthanize her.

There is a lot more to the trimming method we used, but one of the main ideas of the protocol was to lower the heels as much as possible. There is a lot of actual science behind the reasons to lower the heels. Of course, it is more than just lowering the heels, but that is one of the absolute cornerstones of the process. You also have to ‘pull’ the toe back to help the foot break-over sooner in the stride. The shape of the bottom of the foot is important too. You want the largest bearing surface that you can get on the bottom of the foot. You want to un-weight the walls. I can’t possibly describe it in detail here though. But, again, they want the heels as low as possible. From a practical standpoint, this physically puts the coffin bone into a more ‘normal’ position. Wedges raise the heels and point the coffin bone at an even steeper angle.

At first, had to trim quite often to maintain the angles on the hoof. Because of the physical changes in the hoof after the coffin bone rotates, the horse’s foot tends to grow heel faster than toe. (this is what give the ‘typical’ look of a foundered foot, and can lead to the ‘elf’ toed feet you sometimes see). The reason the heels to grow faster is that when the coffin rotates, the bones tip forward and push forward toward the top of the hoof capsule. This creates pressure and slows the circulation at the front of the hoof, while the back of the foot has no restriction in the blood supply. The hoof wall grows faster when it has normal blood flow. So, the heels will grow faster than the toe. We trimmed the Arab weekly for quite a while so that we could keep the heels low, otherwise, it was a cycle of heels grow, then trimmed low, then grow tall, then trimmed down again (angle up, angle down, up, down, etc). By trimming weekly at first, we didn’t have a see-saw of changes, and it didn’t let the foot get so out-of-whack at any time.

It is possible for the coffin bone to de-rotate. I have an x-ray of the rotation when it was really bad, and x-rays taken later that show that the rotation is much better. Unfortunately, my computer crashed and I lost the newer x-ray, but I would be happy to post the ‘bad’ photo. However, I can’t upload anything. If someone wouldn’t mind posting it for me, I can email it ([email protected]). If anyone is interested in comparing the differences, I can see about getting another copy of the ‘later’ x-ray. I know the owner still has copies. (I do have permission to share the photos on the internet.)

The owner also put pads on the horse’s feet to help keep her comfortable. These were foam (more like kneeling pad material, not styrofoam). These gave the foot some padding and helped to distribute the weight across the bottom of the foot. She was also very careful about her diet. She soaked and rinsed the grass hay to wash out as many sugars as possible. There were days when the mare laid down much of the time. We had a couple of abscesses form, and during those times she would be acutely lame again. It was a lot of work and time involved for the owner, but she didn’t feel the horse was ready to give up yet, so she didn’t either. However, even the owner will admit that she might not have been able to pull a different horse though the same thing, this horse seemed to know we were trying to help her. It is an individual thing for every animal, and for each owner. Each horse handles pain differently, and not all owners have the time and resources to spend. I hope you find the best solutions for Sophie and yourself.
 
I have posted on the Yahoo group, didn't get much help,,,,,,but I do still read there for ideas and suggestions.

As for the wedges,,,,she is wearing a kind that raises her toes and lowers her heels, so they are doing what you spoke of. Maybe a different type of, not sure. These were custom made by the foot specialist at Purdue. These go on, starting in the middle of her foot, and go out toward her toe,,at an angle, raising the toe @ 5%. They are not on her heel, therefore not raising it. I hope that makes sense.

This morning she seemed to feeling better,,,,,,,let her out of the stall, and she was in a big hurry to get out!

Thanks for your thoughts and ideas.
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Sorry about the confusion on the wedges. I just assumed that you were talking about heel wedges. It is a method that some vets and farriers use in a founder case. The theory is that liffing the heels takes pressure off the flexor tendon, and therefore doesn't 'pull' the coffin bone down as much. But, the heels down, to level out the gravitational forces on the coffin bone, seems to be a better approach, at least it has worked very well for us.

I'm guessing that the wedges you have are doing the same type of thing as lowering the heels. What other things do they do to the hoof, other than put on the wedges? I am especially curious about what they do to the hoof at the back, where the wedge doesn't touch. Do you have photos of her feet that I can see? I am very interested in what they are doing to her. I was so impressed with the progress that the Arab mare made, that I have become really interested in foundered feet and what can be done to help the horse. This is the first time I've heard of the toe wedges, and I would love to see them and compare how they are the same and what is different from what we did.

How are wedges attached? Is it something that you tape on, or is something the farrier glues on? I would love to see and understand it.

If you have any photos you would be willing to send me, of the wedges in place, and of the bottom of her foot so I could see that, I would really appreciate it. Thanks, [email protected]
 
Carolyn, I am so sorry to hear this. :no: I was hoping for better news.

Robin
 
I was glad to see an update on Sophie but was hoping for a more positvie one. I am so sorry she is still having problems. You must go with your heart in knowing what is right for her.

Judy
 
I have no words of wisdom to offer, but wanted to say sorry your mare is going through this. :no:
 

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