A Buckskin or Dunskin?

[Mona]

I thought this colt was dunskin too, until three weeks ago when I brought him into the indoor to get him ready for ECMHC spring Fling show that is scheduled for April. I clipped his neck to start sweating it, and low and behold it is the same blue grey color as his dam that is a grullo. Seems that they don't get their true grullo color till almost two years of age. Surprise, surprise. Any how I gave this colt to my Grand son, as I think he is a winner. Vet just checked him and no way is he ready to be gelded. what a shame. Guess my daughter will have to show him until we can get him gelded. Watch for us in the show ring, and hopefully at Nationals.

I agree with Rabbitsfizz...I too think he looks bay dun. It is not true that a true grullao does not get their true/full color until they are two, as I have had duns (red, bay and grulla) all born here and they are all easy to distinguish from each other pretty much right from birth on.

As for gelding him, many people (some vets included) seem to think the colts testicles need to be "hanging" in the scrotum like a stallion, in order to geld...this is not so, and as long as they can be palpated, they can easily be gelded. I have had foals as young as 5 1/2 weeks done even.

 

[rubyviewminis]

I agree with Mona and Rabbit, bay dun, and I had two colts gelded whose parts "disappeared", but even I could palpate them. Normal gelding procedure.

SampleMM if you find a definitive genetic test for dun, and also have it done, I would really love to know who and where. It is hard waiting two years to know for sure if they are a dunskin/Buckskin dun. It would be too hard to go through getting DNA from the sire's current owner and all of the other requirements to *indicate* dun.

I have had three grullo horses, and I can post pictures if anyone wants to see, that they do keep their tannish baby coat for their first two years. The last one we had (mustang) had all of the trademark grullo markings. Even the BLM had him listed as buckskin. At two years he shed a beautiful grullo with a slight olive tint

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I just want to say those are some gorgeous horses all of you posted pictures of !

 

[Riverrose28]

The vet palpated him on Wed. she can feel one ring but no boys yet.

 

[Skylight_minis]

Sorry to hijack the thread here...

But this is a pic of Katies dorsal stripe, and the other pictures of her are posted above.

I had a buckskin that had a definate chocolate stripe but there was no way he was dun. Neighter parent were dun and he didnt have any other signs of being dun. The silver gene does make it more difficult to tell since it turns black to brown. I would look for leg baring. It is possible to have a dorsal and not be a dun.

 

[mizbeth]

I agree, this boy is a bay dun! Most horses this time of year do not show their true colors, and appear much darker. My MIME is a bay but when clipped this time of year, he appears black or the color we expect a black to be - this time or year.

Bay duns' appear a buckskin color in their summer color - and I agree, they are dilutes very similar if not the same as a buckskin parent.

When I was growing up with big horses, a buckskin had a DORSAL stripe and was expected to, of course this was a few years ago

 

[Tami]

I would have bet money one of my stallions carried dun. He has a very dark, defined dorsal strip. He has a bar on his shoulders and produced a colt with the same bars and with leg bars......(not a flattering photo of him)

I had him tested and he does not carry dun.

 

[chandab]

I would have bet money one of my stallions carried dun. He has a very dark, defined dorsal strip. He has a bar on his shoulders and produced a colt with the same bars and with leg bars......(not a flattering photo of him)

I had him tested and he does not carry dun.

Wow, I'd sure be willing to swear he was dun. He has awfully dark dorsal, shoulder bars, looks to have the dark mask, but can't see his legs to see if he has leg bars (probably does). Makes me wonder about the dun test.

 

[Riverrose28]

Since there is some confusion on my yearling being a bay or a grullo, I will try to get a picture this afternoon of his neck that is clipped to show the color his body is becoming. I would be interested to know you alls opinion. Terry

 

[Miniequine]

Tami! Really??? I would call him a DUN! Interesting!

 

I would have bet money one of my stallions carried dun. He has a very dark, defin ed dorsal strip. He has a bar on his shoulders and produced a colt with the same bars and with leg bars......(not a flattering photo of him)

I had him tested and he does not carry dun.

 

[Mona]

I would certainly have him restested with a new hair sample! He sure does look bay dun!!! That dorsal sure does not look like any countershading!!

And then with the other dun factors too, it just does not seem possible that he is not dun!!

 

[Riverrose28]

OK here is the photo that I promised earlier today, Jack in his winter woolies, but I clipped some of his neck for sweating. What do you think? Grullo or bay dun? The horse in the above photos look like a bay dun to me, but not Jack.

 

[MindyLee]

I say bay dun still.

I have a bay stud that looks like that with a fresh clip. After it starts to grow back the red comes back as well.

 

[SampleMM]

I would certainly have him restested with a new hair sample! He sure does look bay dun!!! That dorsal sure does not look like any countershading!!

And then with the other dun factors too, it just does not seem possible that he is not dun!!

I agree! Tami's horse sure looks like a dun to me and who knows, perhaps there was a mix-up at the lab.

 

[Mona]

Riverrose. I would BET MONEY that your boy is a bay dun and not a grullo. You cannot go by freshly clipped coat color. He is most definately a bay dun. All you have to do to find out 100% is to have him color tested for agouti.

If he carries, he's a bay dun, if not, he's a grullo, but my money is on bay dun.

 

[Riverrose28]

Thanks Mona, I got the web site address for color testing, maybe I'll send off a sample.

 

[chandab]

OK here is the photo that I promised earlier today, Jack in his winter woolies, but I clipped some of his neck for sweating. What do you think? Grullo or bay dun? The horse in the above photos look like a bay dun to me, but not Jack.

Looks like a typical bay dun, very nice, can't wait to see his summer coat. [Clipped coat doesn't show true color. My silver bay mare looks pale silver when clipped, but gets her golden color back when it grows out a little.]

 

[valshingle]

I may be wrong, but I thought that the dun test wasn't 100% correct. Meaning that if your horse tests positive then he is a dun, but if he tests negative he may still be a dun because they don't have a test for every gene that carries dun. Same with roan. I think that is what the techs at Animal Genetics told me.

Forgive me if I have this wrong.

Also, can a non-visible dun horse carry the dun gene? I have a bay roan frosted/snowflake app mare that the vets feel just had a dun foal. The foal looks bay with countershading to me, but I do see some 'roany' hairs and his base coat seems very mousy. One vet is predicting grulla roan and the other is betting on bay roan app.

 

[Tami]

I was quite surprised too when his test came back "markers inconsistent for being dun". But his sire and dam are not registered as dun either. But I raised dun quarter horses for years and this coloring was too "sharp" not to be dun, which is why I had him tested. His sire is Alvadar Double Destiny, who does not appear to carry dun and his dam is Sids Bunny, a black.

 

[SampleMM]

Okay all you color experts..........here is my filly.........freshly clipped. What color do you think she is now? Note the dorsal stripe and leg stripes. It's weird, her legs are black in the front and then are light on the backs of legs.

 

[Jill]

She's beautiful!!! Very visibly sporting dun factor, but of course, she can be both genetically buckskin and carry dun. Bay + Cream + Dun

Three of our six buckskin mares also exhibit dun factor

To my eyes, your filly's tone looks more bay than buckskin, but I've seen genetic buckskins that do look more bay to the eye than buckskin... Have you color checked her?