A color Question

[joylee123]

[SIZE=12pt]Hi,[/SIZE]

I have a stallion who's Sire and Dam are both Tobi. He is loud Tobi/Sabino

On the AMHA studbook, this stallion shows having produced several solid offspring, but the online stud book doesnt show whether the offspring have blazes or sock/ stockings.

Is it possible for this horse to be homogygous and throw foals that just show blazes, stars and leg markings? or does there have to be a certain amount of central body color on the offspring for the stallion to be considered throwing pinto foals?

I will have him checked but I was just wondering.

Thanks,

Joy

 

[R3]

Yes, they can still be homozygous for tobiano and have foals that show on the Studbook at 'solid'. As you indicated, the horses registered as 'solid', may have sock or stocking, and they may actual be genetic tobianos. A horse can be tobiano but have such minimal white that a person does not recognize them as 'pinto'. (Just a note, blazes and stars would not be indications of tobiano, so are not considered when deciding if your horse is homozygos tobiano. They would more likely be indications of the sabino, frame, splash gene.)

If he is homozygous, all of his offspring should carry the tobiano. It is unusual for a horse carrying tobiano to be very minimally marked to the point they are listed as 'solid'. So, if a large portion of his offspring are showing to be 'solid', then that might indicate to me that he is not homozygous. A 'few' solids wouldn't make me questions too much, but a larger number would.

Also, how many offspring does the horse have listed? If he only has a small number of offspring, it is very difficult to make a statistical analysis, as small numbers easily skew the percentages.

 

[HGFarm]

Has the stallion been tested? You would have to see all the offspring to see if they qualify as a 'minimal pinto', but unless he has been tested I would not claim he was homozygous. Does that make sense? There are many pinto experts here with much more knowledge than I about these genes, that I am sure will help you out with info, but I would imagine the stud needs to be tested to prove that he is truly homozygous or not.

I would also never go by the stud book. There are so many that are misregistered, etc... My Appy stallion Grays Smoke Signal was originally listed as a black pinto!!!!!! I had to have them correct it. He had been listed that way for years before I got him- he is a black based silver dapple Appy with NO pinto, LOL

 

[Miniv]

I agree with Laurie/HG Farm.......

Before you advertise him as homozygous, he needs to be tested. That alone would prove whether or not his "solid" offspring were minimal pinto or not. I also agree with Laurie about the color listings in the stud books. That cannot be counted on as accurate.

 

[Loess Hills]

Has your stallion been lab-tested homozygous? Homozygous just means that he will produce pintos, some could be minimal tobiano.

Just because he is a tobiano does not mean he's homozygous. Check the Animal Genetics website for more information.

We have a minimal tobiano stallion who produces both solids and tobiano even when bred to a solid-colored mare.

 

[joylee123]

[SIZE=12pt]I will definitely have him tested, probably this week. [/SIZE]

R3, I now remember about face color not being a Tobi trait

This stallion though does have a medium size snip. He only has 6 get over the past 13 years and 2 are registered as pinto. He probably isn't homozygous but I just thought I'd ask

Thanks

Joy

Ps. Not advertising him at all, just curious

 

[R3]

Joylee123 - This is not directed at you, but at everyone in general.

I would never advertise a horse as 'homozygous' based purely on the fact a horse has had 'only' pinto offspring when it is possible to do a genetic test and verify the fact. As I said before, a small sized sample of offspring (which is usually all you have when breeding minis) is not enough to statically 'prove' a horse is homozygous.

I don't even like to see websites that advertise as horse as 'may be homozygous', just because both it parents are pinto. To me, that is almost suggesting the horse is homozygous, without any proof. If the seller wants a higher price, because the horse 'may' be homozygous, that does't seem right. To me, the seller should spend the money and find out. If the horse IS homozygous, then they could price it accordingly, as some will feel that it makes the horse worth more. I don't think there should be any difference in price for a 'may be homozygous' horse and one that is known to NOT be homozygous.

 

[joylee123]

Joylee123 - This is not directed at you, but at everyone in general.
I would never advertise a horse as 'homozygous' based purely on the fact a horse has had 'only' pinto offspring when it is possible to do a genetic test and verify the fact. As I said before, a small sized sample of offspring (which is usually all you have when breeding minis) is not enough to statically 'prove' a horse is homozygous.

I don't even like to see websites that advertise as horse as 'may be homozygous', just because both it parents are pinto. To me, that is almost suggesting the horse is homozygous, without any proof. If the seller wants a higher price, because the horse 'may' be homozygous, that does't seem right. To me, the seller should spend the money and find out. If the horse IS homozygous, then they could price it accordingly, as some will feel that it makes the horse worth more. I don't think there should be any difference in price for a 'may be homozygous' horse and one that is known to NOT be homozygous.

[SIZE=12pt] I agree whole heartedly

[/SIZE]

Joy

 

[Charlotte]

Can I tell you my 'homozygous' story?

Some years ago we got a little stallion and mare. Both tobiano, both lab tested Homozygous. So when old enough we breed them together for their first foal and wait the 'forever' 11 months for our fantastic HOMOZYGOUS FOAL!.

Here's what we got

The first thing I said to Frank was "Turn her over"! Not a spot of white anywhere except a little on a couple of feet.

By that time I'm doubting the lab tests on sire and dam so we contact the U of Ky as they were in the process of developing the tobi DNA test. They wanted hair from her. Result was: "We've never seen a tobiano so minimally marked. She is homozygous for tobiano"

We DNA'd sire and dam at the same time and again they tested homozygous.

Yep. Don't trust the stud books when it comes to color.

Charlotte

 

[joylee123]

[SIZE=12pt]How funny

Who would have thought

( What a beautiful horse, by the way

) That's why I asked. Just figured a"solid" colored foal who's white legs weren't mentioned in the stud book could possibly be pinto

Have you ever repeated that breeding? What did they produce if you did?[/SIZE]

I can't wait to get the results back from the test on this stallion I have, but I bet he isn't homozygous. Like R3 said about percentages of reportedly soild foals verses reportedly Pinto foals. Even though he's only had 6 foals, 2 were "Pinto" and 4 were "solid"

How cool , thanks for sharing:yes

Thanks,

Joy

 

[Ashley]

Yes do test him.

I have a mare here who I tested and was homozygous. I only tested her because I bred her to the same stallion every year and kept getting homozygous babies. Finally I decided to test her, sure enough homozygous. Her sire was a homozygous stallion, but her dam was registured as solid. She was sorrel with socks, she might of had a bit of face white but dont remember. However, upon testing my mare, it was now proven her dam was not solid, but rather pinto.

 

[OhHorsePee]

We bred a tobiano perlino to a black tobiano and ended up with a solid smokey black.

 

[shelly]

We bred a tobiano perlino to a black tobiano and ended up with a solid smokey black.

BUMMER

Sure it doesn't have a sock or patch of white somewhere?

 

[joylee123]

[SIZE=12pt]Genetic is amazing stuff

[/SIZE]

Thanks all!

Joy