Adding AOTE or splitting Amateur AMHR

[sdmini]

Ok Terri your going to think I'm picking on you but I'm not. I've seen this listed in thread after thread and I'm going to be making a point, you were just the only one that posted it on this thread.

If you give ribbons to every one you possibly can by adding more classes what is there to strive and improve for? Work hard, go in the arena, get your placing, if you are not happy, go back home and work harder.

Then I vote we do away with height divisions in open, with the exception of under/over, that way it's all on an even keel. Isn't breaking down the classes by height ensuring that more, instead of less, get a ribbon? Wasn't it done so to try and keep things on a more equal footing?

 

[Erica]

Ok Terri your going to think I'm picking on you but I'm not. I've seen this listed in thread after thread and I'm going to be making a point, you were just the only one that posted it on this thread.

Then I vote we do away with height divisions in open, with the exception of under/over, that way it's all on an even keel. Isn't breaking down the classes by height ensuring that more, instead of less, get a ribbon? Wasn't it done so to try and keep things on a more equal footing?

For Revenue purposes I'd think is why open is split up so much, as well as to allow people/farms to show more horses (which equals more $$$ spent showing those horses) is why they split the open classes up the way they do? Maybe it's not.......but I know the reason I bring a 30" yearling, a 32" yearling and a 35" yearling all to the same show is because I can show each of those horses....they dont' have to compete against each other (which they could - mind you yes) but for people like me if they "had" to, I'd leave two at home and just bring my favorite.

Training centers can fill more spots in their barn, haul larger loads to the show, ext.....too

 

[Humhill]

Ha!! First thing we need to do is split the Amateur classes into Junior and Senior at local shows!!! But that's another story....

I've been saying for years (tongue in cheek), it should be split by tax bracket!!

I honestly don't know which I prefer. They both have advantages and disadvantages. On one hand, I'd rather do AOTE. It would eliminate the owners that grab the horse at the show and the amateurs that have a "pit crew". But, on the other hand, it would also eliminate Amateurs being able to have their horses shown open by a trainer. I condition and groom the horses myself, then get the trainer to handle them in Open and Futurity at the show.

If you go into levels, then you get in the situation where by default, you get moved up regardless of how well you do. You just show for so long you earn enough points over time. It doesn't mean you're competitive against the "big" amateurs. Just that you've tried for so long.

I just get tired of the same people winning all the time. (Happens in both associations) A few select people don't ALWAYS have the nicest horse. When you go out of the ring, and you're saying "Well, I placed behind _______ and _______. So, really, that's the equivalent of winning." there's a problem....

 

[minih]

sdmini, on 24 September 2010 - 03:58 PM, said:
Ok Terri your going to think I'm picking on you but I'm not. I've seen this listed in thread after thread and I'm going to be making a point, you were just the only one that posted it on this thread.

Then I vote we do away with height divisions in open, with the exception of under/over, that way it's all on an even keel. Isn't breaking down the classes by height ensuring that more, instead of less, get a ribbon? Wasn't it done so to try and keep things on a more equal footing?

For Revenue purposes I'd think is why open is split up so much, as well as to allow people/farms to show more horses (which equals more $$$ spent showing those horses) is why they split the open classes up the way they do? Maybe it's not.......but I know the reason I bring a 30" yearling, a 32" yearling and a 35" yearling all to the same show is because I can show each of those horses....they dont' have to compete against each other (which they could - mind you yes) but for people like me if they "had" to, I'd leave two at home and just bring my favorite.

Training centers can fill more spots in their barn, haul larger loads to the show, ext.....too

I agree and would like to add that I know a lot of amateurs, like our farm, have other full time jobs. Adding more classes would make the shows longer. When we go to a show for a weekend, we take Friday off already for travel, set up and to finish grooming. There were several shows this year that started performance Friday at noon. It was not a hardship for us since we do not do performance, but I feel really bad for those that do. It is not uncommon to come in Sunday night at 1am, get the horses settled, go to bed and be up for work at 5am. Attending between 4-5 shows a year and then taking time off for Congress and/or Nationals it is hard at the workplace juggling everything. If you make the shows even longer, and add more days to Congress and Nationals, you may be knocking some people out who can not make their work believe that they will have a melt down if they can not go. I have to work to play, but my work may get this notion that sometimes my play interferes with my work. I know there are a lot of us out there that do this, or some may not want to get involved with showing because of the time it takes to go to a show.

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Just FYI, our shows here in the NW already begin on Friday morning and always have. I have to take off part of Wednesday afternoon to go home and prep, get to the show Thursday and start showing first thing Friday morning. And no, my workplace does not like this but they will live.

Leia

 

[~Lisa~]

Sorry for not getting back to this thread sooner.

I feel those that are wanting a novice class instead are splitting hairs here. How do you define novice?

I can only speak for the hunter circuits I have shown in for many years- it is called a Maiden class and is defined by anyone who has not won a first place in the class (locally or nationally) more then 3 times.

 

[Coventry Lane Farm]

We have shown both in the amateur classes and the open classes at the Nationals very year and we always place in the open classes, hardly ever in the amatuer ones, figure that. We condtion and train our own horses also and we place in the open and it feels good when you do place above the professionals.

As far as adding classes/splitting classes at the Nationals, the event is long enough as is let alone adding more especially now that the Driving Stakes class was on Sunday and we had to leave due to being back to work. Pehaps next year will just skip doing the amature classes all together instead of wasting money. 10 days at Nationals is enough for us, JMO.

 

[sdmini]

For Revenue purposes I'd think is why open is split up so much, as well as to allow people/farms to show more horses

Sorry I forget there is not a tongue in check icon. I never really thought that they should be combined, just illustrating a point.

Barrel racing was invented to give the wives and girlfriends something to do, basically it was a by-product of the "manly" events of rodeo. The competition now is so tough that fractions of seconds is all that separates those that take home a check and those that go home with nothing. The industry could have said "suck it up, go home and practice more" instead they invented a 4-D system that rewards four different levels. Not only have they (NBHA) fostered a love for the sport from all different skill levels but they have created a job for all different skill levels of horses.

I dug through many of the Amateur halter classes and looked if those placing horses also placed in Open, most did. Some with trainers, some without, to me that speaks to needing something beyond what we currently have.

In the end if we are on different ends of the divide on the issue that's fine. I truly think that some sort of division is warranted but unless some concession is made to run two rings I don't ever see it being plausible for the National arena. (I've always said I would never want it mandated for the local shows.) It was just fun to see who wanted such a change and who was against it so thanks to those that voted and those that took the time to answer.