After much thought ive decided to comment

[Miniature2Minis]

[SIZE=14pt]slaughter. i want to throw out for the sake of those getting trampled whom were against equine slaughter. i found this on a website and wanted to throw it out i thought it was good im sure others will agree. [/SIZE]

What if there was no slaughter

You might think what would happen to all those horses if they didn't go to slaughter houses well.....The annual number of horses slaughtered in the US dropped from over 300,000 in the 1990s to less than 50,000 in 2003, with no special infrastructure needed to absorb the thousands of "unwanted" horses that were not slaughtered. Horses are being kept longer, sold to others, humanely euthanized, or donated to retirement and rescue facilities. The "surplus horse population" is a myth.

im just a slow responder and wanted to reply. sorry!

also, we have all been complaining about the number of horses put in this world each year and the number of horses for sale plugging up the horse market. with so many mebmbers from all over the world here on this board, cant we all pitch in rather then gripe?!?! if you have a less then quality animal be honest and dont breed. geld you colts for gosh sakes. buy up those grade or non breeding quality stallions that sit for months on the net for $500 geld them, ground drive a bit and sell, help out the horse maket i know you guys can train. no beginner would buy a stallion for their son or daughter but a grade gelding with a little time into him might move faster and get a home and best of all couldnt be bred. why cant we do that? every one can complain, 90% of you can train, what is our deal here? are we to good to buy less then perfect stallions and geld them because no one else will? i dont know but for sure but if each one of us did soemthing like this with 2-3 horses a year, gelded our colts, we might not have such a mess. its only going to get worse, what can we do about it now?

Well just my nickles worth for the evening go ahead and send the flames i know im a terrible person

 

[chevycouple]

I agree with you not 100% but 200%. I am in the process do doing this as soon as I sell my barrel horse.

I am finding "cheap" un-trained horses of all sex's and putting some training on them to turn around and sell. I will only keep one training horse at a time (financial choice). And yes I do plan to geld ALL stallion/colts I purchase. I'm not doing this for a profit (although it feels like it with you see that chunk of money

)

 

[Secret Hills Ranch]

I agree completely, great post!!!

 

[shminifancier]

You might think what would happen to all those horses if they didn't go to slaughter houses well.....The annual number of horses slaughtered in the US dropped from over 300,000 in the 1990s to less than 50,000 in 2003, with no special infrastructure needed to absorb the thousands of "unwanted" horses that were not slaughtered. Horses are being kept longer, sold to others, humanely euthanized, or donated to retirement and rescue facilities. The "surplus horse population" is a myth.

Well you can believe those stats if you want to but they are very misleading. Fact those figures are taking from the USDA plants that were closed during that time. They have No Numbers of the animals that went into the processing plants that are not USDA inspected Pet foods, Mink Food, Zoos, and other places where dead animals go to feed other animals~!!.

I am sure that came from a Anti Slaughter site that only shows one side of the over all big picture....When slaughter is plants are closed There are just others that take up the slack. And there is no figures for those plants...Just some "Food" for thought. But more training and selling the unwanted animals to others so they do not end up as food for whatever human or animal is the best way and geld geld geld~!! And if owning a mare do not breed breed breed~!! Just because she can is the only way to get the over population of horses down, and stop the PMU Farms and go to the synthetic use of the drug. or there is another 20,000 to 30,000 horses hitting the already over grounded horse market.

 

[Miniv]

The slaughter part of your post I don't feel knowledgable to respond to.

However, I would agree about the gelding part of your post. There is definitely a market for "less than show quality" colts and stallions if they were gelded and given some training. We have done it ourselves, as a matter of fact.

I will admit that we should do more and I am also surprised that more people don't do it as a small business as you are very correct -- there is a market!

MA

 

[Champ]

How true, people should think before breeding.....not to mention the minis that die during birthing or the babies born dwarfed.....

 

[Bess Kelly]

Well, I have done my part!! For the past 3 years I have only bred one mare, getting ready to wean the foal. The two years prior I bred 3 mares and kept the foals. My choice, no issues, no problems, not poor quality, etc.

Hey, did I mention that I have 31 breeding age mares?

I'm not contributing to any overpopulation. But, I do plan to put more foals on the ground in the next 2 seasons. I've been helping uphold prices for ya'll

But, then, I only have minis....no big ones in over 15 years.

 

[nootka]

It is already my policy to sell all colts born here as geldings. I don't have the room nor the time to train them all, beforehand, however.

I think most people do not do similarly because there are SO MANY people who want a "colt" for breeding down the road. They run the other way when they hear there are no testicles on their prospective purchase. *shrug*

I think it's a great way to protect a great stallion's worth is to geld ALL his colts with very few exceptions, and they had better be BETTER than dad, and someone had better be willing to pay a decent price for him, but then why would they, when somone else down the road is selling "stud colts for $200 apiece in any color you want, papers optional!"

Not picking on anyone in particular, but the whole industry has a long ways to go to help keep the quality level going upwards and the population in check with that.

I breed one to two mares per year. Have kept two of my homebred babies born in the last two years, and sold one other. I am no expert on the situation of being a breeder and making any money at this, as it is merely a hobby.

There are some things people can do to help out, though, it would seem.

Liz M.

 

[Annetta]

Breeding: The sad part about this is, it tends to be those producing quality stock that cut back on breeding when the market gets flooded. Those producing the pet quality horses--and yes, anyone can come up with pet quality in their breeding program, but I'm talking about those that don't have anything other than pet quality, they may sell with or without papers, some of the horses have dreadful conformation & in this area we'll hear of them for $50 to $200, maybe some nice enough, unregistered horses for $300--so people wonder why they should pay $1000 & up when they can buy for $200---those are the breeders that don't cut back on their breeding, and just keep churning out the foals. If "we" go & buy those unregistered pet colts, we're encouraging those breeding programs....same idea as the puppy mills!

Buy an unregistered pet colt for $500, geld him & start ground driving him, then sell for a profit? Around here, not too likely. I know people that have sold registered geldings, show quality, broke to drive, for $750. Advertise a nice show quality gelding, ready to hitch, for $1200 & you get an offer of $300 or $400--buyer doesn't care about papers. As good as the OP's idea sounds, there's just no profit in it here.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Nor do the numbers quoted take into account the number of horses exported live for slaughter- I would personally like to see a fifty mile transport limit put on all horses destined for slaughter- If there is not a slaughter facility within fifty miles of the auction- no go!! There are ways round that one too, sadly. The numbers quoted do not take into account the horses turned out on waste land, or left in the "back paddock" to starve to death. They do not take into account the numbers of "excess" "surplus" horses, at rock bottom prices dumped on an already top heavy market so bought up by people like Marty's neighbours "For the kids" No matter if it's a yearling- it looks strong!! No matter if it's pregnant- it won't need any extra food and everyone knows horses don't need shelter!! The alternative to humane destruction is living h*ll- if that is truly what you think, that " close the slaughter houses " will solve the problem, you need to go back and look again. There are actually horses that would be better off dead- hundreds, thousands of them, all over the country. Yes, they should be rescued. Yes, the laws should be amended and enforced. REALITY CHECK- THEY ARE NOT!!!! If horses were not so cheap and easy to buy, if they have a value, even if it is as meat, they will not be bought for a lifetime of neglect. Go and look at the Rescue Forum. There is a lttle chap on there who has lived, I think it was eight years??, in a tiny pen. Bought for pocket change on a whim, probably as a present when he was a bay, I'll be bound. AGAIN I say, it is NOT the slaughter that is the problem, it is the transport and the handling and the lack of respect for the animal in general that is the problem, and whilst these people can make a living abusing horses, and you continue to let them- well, you are approaching the whole problem form the wrong end. If you close the slaughter houses they will go across the border- either border. Which would you rather have- slaughter houses in your own country with strict laws governing transport and destruction, or the horses being hauled to Mexico, and quite possibly on down to Argentina where they are shipped by the boat load to, believe it or not, ITALY!!! You really need to take off the rose tinted spectacles and see the real problem.

 

[Jill]

One big problem with our breed is that it seems like a person buys one mini, their first ever horse, then a year later they are breeders. This happens all the time with mini owners...

It's a given that less than show quality colts need to be gelded, and mares that are not show quality need not be bred. Keep in mind the foal they produce will be around for a very, very long time.

How about gelding show quality colts and stallions. Why not? I do and so do more and more other people. I haven't regretted it yet. The more really nice horses who are gelded the more people will take notice that breeding isn't the #1 thing to have a mini for.

 

[capall beag]

IMO the key is not what you breed but just being responsible for what you breed.

Whether you breed top quality show horses or conformationally correct pet quality you are responsible for that animal.

Of course, there is no place for breeding animals with serious genetic faults.

I think the numbers posted are some bit irrelevant, I cannot save the world but IT IS my responsibility to make EVERY effort to ensure that any animal I bred is loved and cared for throughout it's life.

I wanted to breed my labrador and train and show her and hoped to produce better and repeat the process. She had 2 litters, the first produced one show quality pup and the second litter produced one amazing, out of this world show quality pup! Much to my delight she is now doing brilliant on the show circuit and has an exciting future. My dog had produced a total of 17 pups, all but the 2 listed were sold with limited registration and ALL were sold with a lifetime return agreement should the new owner be unable to keep the pup. At this point I decided to have my dog fixed, people thought I was mad to fix her after she produced such an excellent pup BUT I realised I could not continue to do the 'return policy' and mean it with any more pups. I did the return policy to ensure that none of my pups would end up alone in shelters, unwanted or abandoned. I bred quality pups, got top prices and could have sold them 3 times over. Out of 17 I got one back! He is now in a wonderful lifelong home!

I think a responsible horse breeder does the same thing, keeps track of what they have sold. I recently saw a post from a forum member who bought back a 17 year old breeding stallion she had previously owned, gelded him and placed him in a loving pet home to ensure that he had a good life in his older years! This is a responsible owner, hats off to her!!

 

[Sue_C.]

One big problem with our breed is that it seems like a person buys one mini, their first ever horse, then a year later they are breeders. This happens all the time with mini owners...

And I think a lot of this comes from the answers from "many" when these newbies post here as new owners. How many TIMES have I read this..."Oh, but you can't have JUST ONE"..."They are herd animals," leaving them to imagine you MUST have a herd of them!

We are our own worst enemies.

 

[Minimor]

I personally don't like to see someone buy just 1 Mini, unless they have other horses, but there's a vast difference between 2 Minis & a whole HERD of them.

And.....how many existing breeders advertise every last one of their fillies & colts as "breeding stock" or "future broodmares" "future sire".....or convince buyers that they need to buy a "breeding package". How many sellers warn buyers (buyers who are new to Minis) that if they're getting into breeding, there is a rather flooded market, and that breeding Minis may not be the money making venture they think (or have been led to believe) that it is?

 

[Ashley]

Those figures dont take in to account how many horses are just shot by there owners each year. And dont be neive, yes people do do that.