AMHS

[Songcatcher]

I received this email last night. It includes a very interesting PROPOSAL. I wanted to pass it on to share with others.

This is just the portion of the email with the proposal...

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And finally a proposal I have shared with long range planning. After some discussion, the finance committee members STRONGLY recommended that I take this forward NOW as did the EC ..............net net overview

proposal: form a new registry for horses over 34 - 36" ... named (this will change) The American Miniature Horse Society (AMHS)

assumptions; The current AMHA Regisrty will NOT CHANGE in any way, shape, form etc. All current rules, regulations etc WILL NOT CHANGE. The sanctity of the AMHA WILL NOT CHANGE. NO ADDITIONAL HORSES WILL BE ADDED TO THE AMHA REGISTRY. THE AMHA HEIGHT REQUIREMENTS REMAIN UNCHANGED. etc etc.

Details: AMHS (Will just use "S" now) is a new, AMHA/S member owned registry to recognize that a miniature horse over 34" to 36" has value and is considered a miniature horse. Any horse meeting the height requirement (must follow AMHA standards for hardships) can be registered. You must be an S member. You must DNA the horses(and PQ REQUIRED if available) ........ the increased value of these horses, versus having another set of papers, is in :

1. Will follow AMHA rules for hardship

2. Will carry AMHA sire and dam if horse was previously registered with AMHA but "went over" on its papers.

3. Foals wIll carry Sire and/or dam (if AMHA Registered) and stallion report filed.

4. PQ is required(if sire and dam are still alive) which "guarantees" parentage.

5. Papers issued under strict rules with pictures required.

Rationale: The AMHA is the premier registry in the world for miniature horses. Using our new computer process, the AMHA can capitalize on its core competencies(registration, membership) and spread the infrastructure expense over a wider base. Increased revenues from registrations, memberships, magazines, shows etc. This proposal has been modified to eliminate 100% of the complaints I've heard regarding adding "oversized" horses to the AMHA registry ....... a NEW registry ..........this is NOT GLM where we would register other horses ...we would "own" the "S" and its rules/regulations/shows etc.

Food for thought .......................................Possibly setup a committee to investigate???

 

[Jill]

Would AMHS x AMHA offspring be registerable w/ AMHA?

 

[Tony]

Delete

 

[kaykay]

I guess I just cant understand starting a "new" registry for a two inch difference. Only making it for horses 34-36" just seems very limited. I wonder what the reasoning is to only go to 36"?

 

[Becky]

This information was sent to me as well last night and I am very concerned about it. It came from my director and is written by Tom O' Connell, AMHA's Treasurer.

I am very much AGAINST AMHA having another registry for horses that are over 34" in height. AMHA has the unique distinction of being the ONLY registry to maintain records and promote horses that are under 34" in height. AMHA has a unique and valuable commodity with the goal of breeding the 'smallest, most perfect horse'. By adding taller horses into the mix, it increases the height of the overall gene pool. There is another registry that promotes over 34" horses very successfully. AMHA doesn't need to compete.

 

[Charlotte]

I'm sorry, this is really ridiculous and causes me to assume that the proposal is by those who already have an 'oversize' production problem with their herd.

The stated purpose of this proposal is to bring needed money into AMHA. If that were actually the ONLY purpose ....needing money.....the solution is VERY simple .............. [SIZE=18pt]Lower the hardship fees drastically for Under 34" horses! That would create an influx of new registrations and corresponding income[/SIZE]!

If you have an oversize production problem with your herd the solution is simple for that too......GET SMALLER BREEDING STOCK! Quit trying to change the association to suit the wants of a few.

Charlotte

 

[kaykay]

becky i really value your opinion and i understand what you are saying. But amha DOES NEED to compete. They have been in financial trouble off and on ever since I became a member. amha shows are so limited and that also really needs to change.

I have always felt that AMHA needed to address the oversize horses. Its just not right to say that a horse with all amha breeding that goes over 34" is a grade non registrable horse. One of the very first mares I bought went over 34" i bought her as a 3 year old never dreaming she would continue to grow but she did. To date she has never had a foal that went over 31.50"

And I have NEVER been to a farm yet that bred amha horses and didnt have an amha horse over 34" out in the pasture. Its so common that no one even thinks anything about it. Now dont get me wrong im sure there are some farms with horses all 34 and under but i have never personally seen one yet. There always seems to be a couple mares out in the pasture that are obviously over 34 yet still have amha papers.

 

[Jill]

I agree with Charlotte very much regarding hardship fees.

Although they would not add to the gene pool, I have 4 geldings I would hardship into AMHA for show purposes if the fee were not as high as it is and the shows not so far away... I think it's beyond dumb that the hardship fee for GELDINGS is so steep when the only thing a person would use AMHA papers on a gelding for is to go to shows and shouldn't that be encouraged?

Additionally, I agree with Kay's point of view regarding AMHA horses who go over size. Seems there should be a provision that they keep breeding status because I know some produce foals much smaller than themselves.

 

[Tony]

I guess I just cant understand starting a "new" registry for a two inch difference. Only making it for horses 34-36" just seems very limited. I wonder what the reasoning is to only go to 36"?

Sure, why not make it up to 40", that way we could pick up extra revenue for the ones that outgrow AMHR?

NOT.

 

[lyn_j]

More AMHA farms have oversized horses in their programs remaining incognito than any of us realize. I have visited several of the biggest , including 3 that are no longer in existance and there were lots of mares there whose backs were to my waist and I am 5 10. All of their papers said 34". I know better. Guess the remaining ones want to come clean and this is the way to do it.

Lyn

 

[JMS Miniatures]

I agree with Charlotte very much.

Although they would not add to the gene pool, I have 4 geldings I would hardship into AMHA for show purposes if the fee were not as high as it is and the shows not so far away... I think it's beyond dumb that the hardship fee for GELDINGS is so steep when the only thing a person would use AMHA papers on a gelding for is to go to shows and shouldn't that be encouraged?

I agree with Jill and Charlotte as well. Even though I have B size horses, more than A size, I will not be interested in hardshipping my horses into that paticular registry. I have enough worries just keeping up with AMHA and AMHR as it is. I just see it as another complication and expense in my book.

Now for hardshipping geldings goes, I have one that would make and excellent AMHA prospect, but Im not willing to pay such a HUGE amount to hardship a gelding. I was planning on hardshipping 2 horses into AMHA this year, but with such a huge expense to hardship I am only going to do 1 hopefully. I think alot of people agree just drop down the cost a little and you will get alot more hardships.

Also if AMHA wanted to have more money try to get more people to get more shows put together.

 

[Charlotte]

And I have NEVER been to a farm yet that bred amha horses and didnt have an amha horse over 34" out in the pasture. Its so common that no one even thinks anything

KayKay, Not sure what farms you have visited, but please COME VISIT ME! :lol: We have one 34" mare and one 33 3/4" mare...the rest are under 31 1/2". And I venture to say there are thousands of farms with no horses over 34" in their breeding herds. It is simply what we do.....breed within the guidelines.

As for AMHA addressing any horses going over 34", what is different about addressing the horses that go over whatever taller limit is suggested? If you have breeding stock with tall genetics and you dn't want foals that go 'oversize' eliminate the tall genetics from you herd. It's pretty simple.

AMHA just needs to straighten up the 'measuring at shows' to have show entries go back up....that is the biggest show problem. Exhibitors get fed up and leave when their 30" horse is in the ring with horses 31 1/2" horses. That is a simple fix too.

Just call me the the 'fixit man' :lol:

Charlotte

 

[JWC sr.]

AMHA & AMHR both have problems in different areas and some in the same. We were approached last year about starting a new registry and personally beleive that a new registry is not needed. We could all go on for days on end talking about the problems wit the registries as they stand today, but to me the biggest problem with both is the constant state of flux that they seem to stay in.

I am a big proponet of looking at history, as I beleive that it repeats itself. If you look at the largest registry in the world AQHA, they went thru many of the same problems as we are seeing in the mini's today. Then a group of like minded individuals set up associations such as the reigning horse and cutting horse associations that are not registries, but rather opputunities for people to be involved with equine sports that bred, trained and exhibited horses that were used for specific purposes, ie cutting and reigning. They have both been very successful in the given areas.

Thru promotion, activites and education they made a difference in the industry that was good for both the registry and the individual groups. A win win situation as versus, conforontation and exclusion they promoted inclusion and cooperation. I like that approach and in the coming year I think you will see something along those lines develope in the mini industry.

Bottom line do AMHA & AMHR have some problems, of course they do. But they still provide a good basic function of being a stud book and registry to track and register our horses. we don't need another competeing registry to complicate things. What we need is more venues to promote, exhibit and enjoy our horses more thru those activites.

My two cents worth anyway, we will continue to support the registries and hope they move in directions that are beneficial for all mini owners. All the while seeking to let more people know about these wonderful small equines.

:saludando:

 

[Leeana]

I dont really do much with the AMHA registry bc we have mostly AMHR/ASPC shows around these parts. But i do think allot of the farms with horses over 34'' that are AMHA will jump on this. My only fear is will this become abother WCMHR registry if you get what im saying? Will the money putting you Over 34'' horse into the AMHS be worth it when it comes to selling, will the buyer care about AMHS since its not the AMHA or AMHR main registrys? Just AMHS and AMHR? Will the horse be worth the same?

IMO, i think this would just become another WCMHR registry. I just dont see it being a big registry, atleast not big enough to actually show horses through that 34-36 class. I think if they are going to show the horse that has went over then it may be worth it to hardship, but would that class be packed in your area ..im guessing not. To me this would be just 'another' registry ..we dont need 'another' registry. Just my opinion

I just wanted to add, i have a gelding who is just AMHR, both parents are AMHA and AMHR ..both under 34''. My gelding could have been AMHA as well but he is 35'' and no longer has his AMHA papers. Now looking at it from my point of view, if this registry comes around i have no plans at all to put my gelding in this registry ..none at all. I have not seen prices yet either but i'm not going to bother.

 

[Charlotte]

To JWC sr

Right on John! :aktion033:

Charlotte

 

[Becky]

And I have NEVER been to a farm yet that bred amha horses and didnt have an amha horse over 34" out in the pasture.

I agree with Charlotte here, you need to come to our farms! I have no over 34" horses in my breeding herd. Do I have foals that go over 34"? Yes! Because I definitely believe in registering all of my horses both AMHA and AMHR, those foals who appear to be going oversize have another registry that they can compete in and be enjoyed by their owners.

Does AMHA have financial problems? Yes! But the thought of adding an oversize registry to eliminate the financial issues is just ludicrous! That won't solve the underlying issues.

I agree with JWC! We need new venues to promote what we have in AMHA. The 34" and under American Miniature Horse.

 

[kaykay]

charlotte i have no doubt that all of yours are 34 and under

*laughing*but im betting there are not as many as you think. I have traveled to so many farms over the years that i have lost count. And every single one of those farms had amha registered horses that were over 34. they will even tell you they are over 34.

the problem with not recongnizing over size stock is that then they can never close and be a breed. Once you become a "breed" you cant kick out foals that come from registered stock simply because they went over 34. Lawsuits would abound just like they did with AQHA.

And I totally agree that both regsitries have problems. Nothing is ever perfect. But one thing that no one can dispute is that amhr/aspc has always been financially sound. They do not have the financial problems that amha seems to always be battling.

for sure both registries have big issues with measuring at shows. I guess before anything else is tackled that for sure needs to be cleaned up in both amhr and amha. I have been to both amha and amhr nationals and its the same problem at both shows.

 

[coopermini]

I do not see how adding more height/ new registry will solve anything. Yes there are 36" horses with AMHA papers. There are also 40" horses with AMHR/B papers. What ever the limit there will always be a group of people who totally believe they are better than everyone else or have more money and the rules do not apply to them. Currently there are a number of AMHA stallions and mares that are well over 34" being bred around the country to each other with the hopes that no one will notice or mind if the offspring end up a couple inches over. After all they would be just right to show.

As far as the financial aspect if any org. can't control it's own spending increasing revenue is only a short term patch never a problem solution. Over the past 2 years AMHA seems to be focussed on keeping spending inline.

My Two cents!

Mark

 

[Becky]

What ever the limit there will always be a group of people who totally believe they are better than everyone else or have more money and the rules do not apply to them.

Ditto!

 

[kaykay]

okay last post i promise. but the above post shows the mindset in BOTH registries. As long as amha and amhr allow horses that are obviously over height for their class to show and win the problem will never be solved.

Just think if measuring was done right and all those over 34" horses were kicked out of amha shows. Or all those obvisouly over 34" in amhr (showing as 34 and under) were kicked up to showing in B divsion. etc. People would stop breeding those tall horses in a heartbeat if they couldnt show them.

both registries need to crack down and start measuring right!!!