Another beet pulp question, plus flaxseed

[GypsyMoonMinis]

I have a senior mare that I am having a hard time getting weight back on after having a surprise foal last winter. She foaled in October and was a great weight until about April. Since April however she's lost quite a large amount of weight. I have since weaned her (its been about 3 or 4 weeks now, she's drying up well). She's on a regular, rotated worming schedule (and I always give a pro-biotic after worming or with any change in diet); gets between 10 to 15 lbs of alfalfa/grass mix plus 4 lbs of triple crown senior diet and 1 cup (.5 lb) of triple crown 30% ration balancer spread over 3 meals a day (the triple crown 30% has 30% crude protein and 2% lysine)

The hay is top quality. She's on dry lot 95% of the time and I do a round of Sand Clear once a month. She's due to have her teeth floated again, but doesn't seem to have any issues eating (no mysterious balls of hay and the fibers are normal in her manure). No diarrhea etc. Her coat could be shinier, but she shed out well this spring too....Also she has free choice mineral and salt licks.

So that brings me to my question. I am considering perhaps adding some beet pulp to her diet and have been doing some research. I know next to nothing about it, expect that everything i hear makes it sound like the ideal feed for hard keepers. It doesn't have a real high protein content, but I like that its a low glycemic food. Most things i have read state that beet pulp causing choke is a myth, as well as making the stomach expand. What I read tonight though was interesting:

Because of beet pulp's high calcium content, don't feed beet pulp to miniature horses due to the increased risk of enterolith formation, and don't feed it to horses diagnosed with kidney disease or bladder stones (renal calculi).Dr. Martin W. Adams, Equine Nutritionist for Southern States

This is the first time i've read anything like this. Is there any truth to it? What are your personal experiances?

Would beet pulp be something to try with my mare, or should i see how the free choice hay works for her? How much would I feed?

What about flaxseed? Does anyone here feed it? If you do, how much and how do you prepare it? Whole or ground? Soaked? Would it benefit her, in addition too beet pulp? Instead of? Neither?

Im kind of at a loss. The rest of my horses range from weanling to 3 yr old and every one is a perfect weight, with gloriously shiney coats and a pep to thier step. This is my first experience with a senior horse (I forgot to mention that she is 21 yrs old and 33.5 inches)

Thanks everyone!

 

[disneyhorse]

I think that high-calcium feeds such as alfalfa CAN contribute to stones... but you have to look at the horses' overall feed, water, and mineral intake.

Here in California, we feed a lot of alfalfa, and our WATER is very hard, meaning just drinking water contributes to the mineral intake. Therefore, we do get a lot of entroliths forming around here.

However, I wouldn't turn away from feeding beet pulp or alfalfa (I feed both) I just make sure that I include a lot of lower-calcium feed such as grass hay.

Andrea

 

[Crabtree Farm]

Flax seed must be fed ground or even in an oil form. Whole flaxseed goes right through and you are throwing money away.

 

[Mominis]

Ground, stablizied flaxseed is available in prepackaged form. You can also use a coffee grinder to grind your own. Up to one week's worth keeps just fine in the freezer. I'm a die-hard flaxseed fan. The stuff has so many benefits. If you grind it, they do get the benefits of the seed itself. As someone mentioned, fed whole they do not. However, the hulls of the seeds are good for sand colic prevention among other things and in the coffee grinder, you get the best of both worlds, the hull and the seed.

 

[Margo_C-T]

Where did you read that quote? The man's title sounds a bit vague to me; is 'Southern States' a feed company, or ??? I've never read or heard this kind of a 'warning' about feeding beet pulp to miniature horses, anywhere.

As for the flax seed...I feed a ground, stabilized flax seed from Omega Fields, and they claim in writing that it can do essentially the same job as a psyllium product for sand removal.I really like it, the horses really like it, and they are 'blooming'!

I feed sloppy beet pulp once daily, from @ 2 cups to 3 cups/horse, depending on the horse's size.I believe it is a big help in keeping a horse hydrated, and the fiber is in a beneficial form for horses. I only have one hard keeper, but everybody gets it.I will continue to feed it. I also feed a combination of a quality alfalfa and a quality grass hay to all except the very senior mare, who gets a senior concentrate and the TINY alfalfa pellets, because she wastes so much hay in its 'natural' form, even w/ regular tooth work.

Margo

 

[GypsyMoonMinis]

thank you so much for the replies! I had figured you would want to feed it ground, but I've read so many other horsemen feeding it whole. how much, about 1/4 cup?

 

[Shadows Fire]

I tried feeding it whole and ground. When I fed whole I had lots of pretty blue flax flowers in my lawn. LOL So yeah ground up is better. I fed a small amount like a couple of ounces.

 

[Rocky1]

I would start off with 1/8 cup per feeding, so up to 1/4 cup per feeding sounds good. A full sized horse is supposed to get a MAX of 2 cups per day. I get my ground flax from the Bulk Barn. It's cheaper there then the feed stores in my area. It's great as a weight builder, makes the coat shiny, great for gut flow and great for the hooves. I haven't had my cracks in my boys hooves since I started feeding ground flax.

 

[chandab]

I have a senior mare that I am having a hard time getting weight back on after having a surprise foal last winter. She foaled in October and was a great weight until about April. Since April however she's lost quite a large amount of weight. I have since weaned her (its been about 3 or 4 weeks now, she's drying up well). She's on a regular, rotated worming schedule (and I always give a pro-biotic after worming or with any change in diet); gets between 10 to 15 lbs of alfalfa/grass mix plus 4 lbs of triple crown senior diet and 1 cup (.5 lb) of triple crown 30% ration balancer spread over 3 meals a day (the triple crown 30% has 30% crude protein and 2% lysine)

. This is my first experience with a senior horse (I forgot to mention that she is 21 yrs old and 33.5 inches)

Thanks everyone!

I wonder if something else isn't going on, cause man that sounds like a ton of feed for a mini her size. [That's almost what my saddle horses eat daily (15-20# feed), granted they aren't coming off raising a foal that pulled them down, but still...] Have you weighed the hay to know for sure that's how much she's getting (for a mini her size, that already sounds like about free choice)?

Do you know how much this mare weighs? Where is she thin? Topline/Hips? Ribs? Both? [My shortest mare, 35", weighs 325#. She averages 6-7# hay daily plus ration balancer. Her foal did pull her down last year while nursing, but I doubt I fed her that much. This biggest thing she needed was more ration balancer to increase her protein intake (I think I had her at 1# or 1.25# per the nutritionist til her topline improved), as her topline got bad while nursing; she was still pretty chubby every where else.]

Have you considered feeding her a probiotic for longer than just a dose or two after worming? Some seniors benefit from daily probiotics, there are some good ones out there, that they find tasty (mine didn't find Probios brand very tasty, but did like the one from Smart-Pak).

 

[~Lisa~]

Im assuming with 20 lbs of feed a day this is a big horse?

 

[chandab]

Im assuming with 20 lbs of feed a day this is a big horse?

Last paragraph of first post, says she's a 33.5", 21 year old mare. That's why I asked to verify quantity of hay, and wondered if something else might be going on.

 

[~Lisa~]

OH MY.. I didnt see that I think you need to get a new scale I can not imagine giving 20+ lbs of feed to a mini my yearling ASPC ponies are VERY HARD keepers and they get about 8-10 lbs of feed a day and really I could not see them even actually able to eat much more..

Truly not meaning to sound mean or crabby or anything I am truly shocked a mini is eating that much

If you are truly feeding your mini 20 lbs of feed a day and no other horses around to be eating from that amount ya there has got to be another issue I would think?

We have a guess she is about 27 yr old pony now (I have been saying 25 yr old for years now lol) she is a QH in type and about 13.3 hands. She currently gets about 6 lbs of hay about 6 lbs of beet pulp and about 2 lbs of safe choice a day. I have found for her she seems to do best on safe choice rather then senior feed not sure why ?

 

[GypsyMoonMinis]

Last paragraph of first post, says she's a 33.5", 21 year old mare. That's why I asked to verify quantity of hay, and wondered if something else might be going on.

yes, i weight my hay. the rest of the horses get 2% of their body weight in forage which is an average of 6 lbs. They all maintain their weight well. This is NOT at one sitting, this is broken up over 3 meals a day. So roughly 2 lbs in the morning, 2 at lunch and 2 at night. I also spread out grain and supplements. Since my horses can't graze, I try to allow them to have something to chew on as often as possible. I have the old mare and my yearling gelding together, of the 5, i don't mind him having extra hay right now and I think i said she's on an alfalfa grass mix, where as the others are on a maintenance grass only. so i've gradually increased her hay to double, which would be 4% or roughly 12 lbs per day to be exact. I dont know where 20 lbs came from, I think in my original post i stated 10 to 15 lbs a day. It was also 3 am when i wrote it...

shes getting 30% crude protien daily from the triple crown ration balancer, and she has lost weight off her top line and hollow in her hips. I do worry about kidney or liver issues and am thinking about getting a blood panel done. I note also that all her hay is eaten up at every meal, and she eats most of it, my gelding is a finicky eater.

and yes, I generally go 3 days of pro-biotic after worming or diet change and am looking into getting a daily probiotic for her and the same yearling gelding as he is prone to gas colic. Invigor is what I am looking into getting.

 

[GypsyMoonMinis]

OH MY.. I didnt see that I think you need to get a new scale I can not imagine giving 20+ lbs of feed to a mini my yearling ASPC ponies are VERY HARD keepers and they get about 8-10 lbs of feed a day and really I could not see them even actually able to eat much more..

Truly not meaning to sound mean or crabby or anything I am truly shocked a mini is eating that much

If you are truly feeding your mini 20 lbs of feed a day and no other horses around to be eating from that amount ya there has got to be another issue I would think?

We have a guess she is about 27 yr old pony now (I have been saying 25 yr old for years now lol) she is a QH in type and about 13.3 hands. She currently gets about 6 lbs of hay about 6 lbs of beet pulp and about 2 lbs of safe choice a day. I have found for her she seems to do best on safe choice rather then senior feed not sure why ?

lol.... seriously, where did 20 lbs come from?

I think someone mis-read something somewhere please see my post above this one

 

[love_casper]

15 lbs of hay + 4 lbs triple crown senior + 1 lb ration balancer = 20 lbs of food. Even if she only got 10 lbs of hay that's still 15.... which leads me to believe that there is something wrong with her digestion. Unless of course that's split with the yearling she's with, or one of the grain numbers was a typo.

To answer the original question, I'm fairly sure that beet pulp is indeed high in calcium, I keep all my minis on it, I just balance it out with oats, which are high in phosphorous. I don't worry so much with the big horses getting it, since everyone's on grass hay. But I couldn't imagine her actually needing more than 15 pounds of food....

 

[~Lisa~]

15 lbs of hay + 4 lbs triple crown senior + 1 lb ration balancer = 20 lbs of food. ....

Yes that is where I got the 20 lbs of feed. I would try the beet pulp but if she is needing that much to maintain her weight I really do not know how much you could give her and how much more feed she could eat.

You might want to seperate her so you can see how much of that she is really eating- split with a yearing that is not an abnormal amount and if she is a slow eater he could be getting more then his share?

Maybe you can add something like cool calories? or another weight builder to try and help without adding more actual feed to her diet?

 

[GypsyMoonMinis]

its actually 12 lbs of hay, plus 4 lbs senior, plus 1/2 lb ration balancer. (i said between 10 and 15 in my original post, but found the exact later) per day. so thats 16.5

she does share it with the yearling. She gets too upset to be by herself, so I haven't separated her. I have however observed the yearling eating with all the others and he is very picky, very slow and will go nap while everyone else is eating.

I took some pictures a few mins ago. She gets about 30 mins of turn out in the evenings on the yard. She's been a brood mare her whole life and when she came home with us last year she was very plump, but she was also very heavy in foal which we didn't know until she foaled in Oct. She and the foal both were on a mare and foal/creep feed and alfalfa and as I said it was only the last few months when she started going downhill (we also weaned her about 3 weeks ago). I doubled her feed intake gradually over the last month, so she hasn't been on this 'large' amount of feed for very long.

weight tape came in at 273, I did it a few times just to be sure. I would like to see her put on another 30 or 40 lbs. She's not skin and bones, but she needs more weight.

 

[chandab]

Does she share all her feed with the yearling? Or, just the hay?

She really doesn't look too bad, weight wise, but appears to be just in pasture shape or broodmare shape. She might need a little filling in along her topline, which requires protein (perhaps more of the ration balancer) and exercise; otherwise, she doesn't look like she needs more calories (senior feed or grain).

Mine all share hay, but I put them in their stalls 2x daily (only time they are in them) to eat their hard feed (just ration balancer for most) to be sure each gets what they are supposed to.

 

[GypsyMoonMinis]

Does she share all her feed with the yearling? Or, just the hay?

She really doesn't look too bad, weight wise, but appears to be just in pasture shape or broodmare shape. She might need a little filling in along her topline, which requires protein (perhaps more of the ration balancer) and exercise; otherwise, she doesn't look like she needs more calories (senior feed or grain).

Mine all share hay, but I put them in their stalls 2x daily (only time they are in them) to eat their hard feed (just ration balancer for most) to be sure each gets what they are supposed to.

Only the hay is what she shares, i put everyone in thier own stall for grains etc. Maybe thats what ill do then, is increase her ration balancer and decrease the senior. It took along time to hit a feed plan that I liked for everyone else, and because of her age and the stress of motherhood i tend to be overly paranoid with her. for now im going to keep her and the yearling on the extra hay until they add the extra lbs I would like to see. Going back to my original question, would beet pulp be a good choice for her and if so how much would she be fed (with hay intake decreased to accommodate?)

 

[chandab]

Only the hay is what she shares, i put everyone in thier own stall for grains etc. Maybe thats what ill do then, is increase her ration balancer and decrease the senior. It took along time to hit a feed plan that I liked for everyone else, and because of her age and the stress of motherhood i tend to be overly paranoid with her. for now im going to keep her and the yearling on the extra hay until they add the extra lbs I would like to see. Going back to my original question, would beet pulp be a good choice for her and if so how much would she be fed (with hay intake decreased to accommodate?)

I've only ever fed soaked beet pulp in winter to help with hydration (1/3# dry measure then soaked), so not really sure of the amount to help with weight management. I know its higher in energy than most hays, but less than grain; and its not recommended to be more than 40% of the total diet. You might start by replacing some of the senior with beet pulp (decreasing the senior is a good idea, I'd do it slowly over a few days, and add in a small amount of the beet pulp, although probably less beet pulp than the senior you are taking away), and see what that does for her (leave the hay as it is for now). [Right now, most of mine are pretty chubby, so only getting ration balancer and grass hay.]