Anything goes -If you cannot take the heat Do Not Read.

[shorthorsemom]

We must be doing good getting this back porch some new action if we got Carriage to come out and play.

 

[lucky seven]

I don't believe everything I hear on the news, after all they are ratings motivated. But I do wonder about the Bengahzi problem. That's why I don't think Hillary would make a good President. She was defensive and rude when she was questioned about her role. In our state, they wanted to put a age limit on farm kids. They wouldn't be able to work heavy equipment in fear they might be hurt, or the long hours. Thank God, cooler heads prevailed and that new law was forgotten. I'm also upset about all the traveling our president and family does. Didn't she and girls just go to China? You are right, we didn't vote for her, she wasn't on the ballet, and someone should tell her that. A democrate made the mistake when he called my mom about Obama, and her comment was that maybe he should stay in Washington and not travel so much. I have never seen anyone travel so much on our dime. I doubt there is a country that he hasn't visited. No wonder he wanted to be president. Shorthorsemom, keep venting. I'm trying to keep mine to a minimum.

 

[MountainWoman]

So turtles or no turtles, if I'm understanding the Bundy story correctly the feds took the land from the State of Nevada. So Bundy owes grazing fees and he hasn't paid them. Maybe there's more to this story but geez, he should dang well pay his grazing fees. We have to pay our taxes and he's gone years running his cows without paying. You can't just say the land belongs to everyone and we've been running cows on here from the beginning of time. Doesn't work that way any longer. Wish it did but it doesn't.

So I'm not making Bundy out to be a hero. He's not fighting for me if he doesn't pay what he's supposed to pay in taxes or grazing fees.

Now maybe I'm not understanding this story correctly and if so I'm willing to be educated.

I'm on the side of struggling farmers who do their best every day and do the right thing every day. Many hard working people who are having their farms go out of business every day due to one thing or another but not sure Bundy qualifies.

Not sure I can take the heat here. It got very ugly and personal during the election and I chose to leave and haven't been back. Disagreeing is one thing but entirely different when it ventures into the personal.

And Carriage!!!!!!!! Yay!!!!! Made my day seeing you!

 

[Carriage]

Well Miss Rose,

Confusion is both the tool and the enemy of truth. This is why I swept the confusion du jur away and left you only with the two controlling documents, I will lead you to an answer but generally refrain from giving you the answer so as to foster independent discovery of truth for yourself. Fostering discovery in this way makes you the owner of this discovery and not me or anybody else telling you. This knowledge used to be common, but now is not. Any type of independence, but especially critical and rational thought is stamped out by the servant at nearly all points where it pops its head. Knowing the nature of this hydra, this is the sign that independence is the thing to be sought and treasured. Independence however is NOT the lack of dependence but rather, the better and free will choice of inter-dependence. Thus the 13 Sovereign and Independent Nations formed our union. They were free to join BUT never free to leave and leave with good cause to boot. Whose interest was best served in "maintaining the union" would it not be the entity that had the most to loose financially and control-wise? Whom might this be? I'll give a hint, it is the same entity who has ALWAYS brought evil to independence.

Specific to forest and other such places, I gave you nearly verbatim what the Constitution has to say on the matter. If it is not the controlling apparatus as to what the fedgov may or may not do in service to it's Master, the States what created it, then all you are left with is despotism and a complete lack of Law. When Constitutional law is eschewed for nearly anything else, so is God's Law upon which it was fabricated. How many ranchers have been run out in the last three decades? Many thousands. Bundy was only one of the latest. Now while the neo's are want to call him a bum and call him vile names and literally LIE about the man and what he has done. He has stated that he has no problem paying the grazing fee's BUT wants to ONLY pay those fee's to the rightful owner of the land, that being his County and his State. Again this is a question I ask if I want to know the Constitutional acumen of a feller/fellette. Is a fed forest lawful/Constitutional? Now some will guess the answer correct but not have the nuts and bolts part to know why. The three criteria listed are why. Nothing else can trump those enumerations. Yet the supremes and fedgov seem to find a way. While it is right there in black and parchment, THEY are the ones in the wrong because their action and rulings CLEARLY violate the written word.

Knowing some of the men that were there, standing with the Bundy's, I can assure you that they were not blowing smoke or taking their decisions lightly. They had already resigned themselves to death to uphold Constitutional principal. Oathkeepers are not liars. We took the oath and will continue to honor that oath until "relieved of duty".......

Perception of hero's is a funny thing. Some are bronzed or statue-d and some are trampled underfoot. Knowing a mans character by his enemies most often also shows me who the real hero is. It's a matrix with way too many taking the wrong colored pill. What has been discussed thus far is the very very simple stuff. If I were to speak to the much harder things, it would challenge most everything that one thinks they "know". It did me and most all the folk that I know who have taken the narrow and rocky path. Still we are resolute in that we will know the truth no matter where the truth leads. Again with so many employed in keeping the truth from you, it must be pretty darn valuable, well and destructive of evil too.

I try to rarely get in these discussions anymore as I have so little time these days. Must run 4 times as fast just for the basics. Thanks to our past "leadership"(HA) of both stripes, our economy has been decimated, morality run outa town and the environment too is being destroyed. "They" break all manner of law and yet insist that you must maintain it in minutia. Further they use force and coercion to insure that you do. While mostly sophistry and theater on the feds part in "retreating", these modern day hero's have showed you the proper posture to take when dealing with a rogue servant.

I'm quite certain that what I have said and repeated ver batum from the original documents is brushed aside as my "interpretation", but remember in previous studies as we discussed psychological behavior, that my observation has been that those who trot out that "reasoning" (really a velvet attack) are those that don't like what the singular and true meaning of a thing is and further don't want to abide by it. Therefore they "interpret" it in an untrue manner.

In the end it is all of it a Spiritual issue what needs attended to first. Remove your plank first and then you can see and be of help. Failing this you cannot ever know real truth and Liberty or be helpful in restoration. The Revolution started from America's pulpits, even so that destructive monster required much bloodshed before it released only part of it's grip. The ultimate jilted lover, if it cannot consume and control us, nobody will.

Fear is the enemy and THAT is why it is played to so heavily. If we have "too much to loose", the spiritual and physical enemy we face has won. Further, they know this and are masters of its employment. And they call us fear mongers...........

Off to a busy and beautiful day. It really is your turn to carry,..... or not, whatever.

Thanks for the time,

Bb

 

[MountainWoman]

Carriage, I wish you would keep discussing. I always read what you write. Gives me lots to think about.

 

[MountainWoman]

On Bundy's grazing fees which are in the millions now I understand - I heard him say he would pay it to his state but why hasn't he put that sum aside in a trust to be distributed? Maybe he has but it would make his argument a lot more compelling to us folk who struggle to pay taxes on April 15th and on the days our property taxes are due as well.

Maybe this is analogous to the Boston Tea Party?

That's why I personally need your posts Carriage!!!

 

[vickie gee]

The cattle battle is not even about the cattle. It is about the land. Beware of Agenda 21. I am a US citizen and don't recall requesting to be a UN citizen. When I think of those cattle in their little concentration camp pens I think of Auschwitz. Cattle now, sheeple later. The weaker cattle were shot and some were shot just because bubba/neo with a paycheck enjoyed doing it.

Our tax dollars were spent on purchasing life like anatomically correct targets of children, pregnant women, and old people. Now what could be up with that?

 

[Carriage]

Re grazing fee's set aside, I fully agree. IF that is the State and county law, yes he should have those funds set aside for that purpose. It cannot be done that way now as the thief (fed/BLM ) is still in place. If Mr. Bundy would speak to this it would further bury the false narrative that the repub./facsist/neocon is spouting and show them for the vicious liars that they are.

Also, I would recommend an audit to know the real number in arrears cause if the thief/liar is claiming this amount, well why would you believe that number.....

Did find a conversation interesting a couple of days ago along this line that might cause me to think "maybe" he has set them aside.

A county commissioner had "the idea" that he pay the fee's to the county and then the county pay them to the thief fedgov.

Seems like that would solve exactly nothing, and were I to walk in Mr Bundy's moccs I still would refuse to pay and now the higher levels of gov. (County and State) are in collusion with the thief. How does a servant remain a servant when they have been caught red-handed stealing everything in sight? Who in the world would not fire the thief and bring them up on charges?

The States must retake possession of their property. The Sheriff must start fulfilling his obligation to protect those he has sworn to protect.

In this case with Mr.Bundy, he must send the fedgov packing. Surely I have spoken to this but, the Sheriff is the most powerful law enforcement official in the county His say so trumps EVERYBODY else. Why? Because you voted this representative into place and charged him/her with protection from all enemies. County gov. is the one closest to you and therefore most powerful. He (Sherriff) is the one that defends your Individual (NOT corporate) Liberty. In today's upside down and backward order of things, the Sheriff has been relegated to serving folk (from a foreign court no less) and runnin the jails. No wait most often they don't even get to "run" the jail", just operate it. Is it interesting to note that levels of gov. have been completely reversed as well.

That worthless Gillispie (Sp?) did not do JACK. Just like Wacco and a host of other murderous events. If I have a Constitutional Sheriff, I will stand to the death with him in righteousness. If not, I won't and further, by his own action he declares himself my domestic enemy and enemy of my community. And I'm gonna take him at his actions and words and comport my self in line with this truth.

Miss Vickie is correct, the cattle are only the tool by which these thefts have been and are taking place. Had a feller yesterday ask "If this is true,( the fedgov theft of land) how come it is still happening?" My response was one can do something wrong fer a hunert years. At no point can the wrong "poof" into being right. It will always be wrong. I think it was ol Teddy R. that asked an adviser if there was any reason that these lands could not become national parks The other feller said no and a new "parks" industry was created over night. It is worthy to note that ol Ted didn't seek out congress or the very specific wording of the Constitution to get a truthful answer. The "interpretation" gambit used today had not fully matured at that time, maybe....

In the end the dearth of this education is the means by which America and the great experiment has died. At this point I have accepted it as the will of God and look forward to my permanent home. As long as sophistry and Matrix is preferred over the hard, scary and grueling work that IS Individual Liberty there can be no change. As long as fear rules, you are locked in place. As long as "greed is good" is the operative position, there can be no change. Gosh seems like Christ himself woulda made the case for that,......... but he didn't. Condemnation has been the only way it is spoken to, yet yer neo down the street, with a straight face no less, will defend it to the death. As long as corporations are treated as people with attendant rights you will not recover. As long as money is treated as "speech" you will never recover. All of this is designed to replace the child created in the image of God, and become superior to God's creation. Try as I might I can't find even an un-fathomable parable speaking to these things in this way. Therefore the question begged is do these type of folk even know God or the saving grace of the Savior? The fruit says, no. Now they "may" give lip service to that truth but the fruit shows that the "truth is not in them". Does the class remember what Christ response to this will be on that eventual day?.....

As I stated, ALL of this starts as a spiritual issue and works outward from there. If it twernt for the ham-stringing of the church via incorporation, THIS is the message that should be pounded from every pulpit in the land as it was during the formation of these States united. But even the "black robed regiment" has been effectively silenced and cowed through fear to not speak any of it. Rather than "come out of her" as commanded, they run to embrace the whore and trade their God (and founder) given immunity for the worthless carrot of exemption. The former is a God thing, the latter is a man thing. Ifn yer preecher boy ain't speaking to these things OFTEN, he is NOT attending to the job God gave him (or more likely the job he sought) and he will be held accountable on that eventual day for this willful failure. Decide where you stand and build your house. The choices are the Rock, or sand. As for me and mine, we choose the Rock.

" America is great because America is good. If she ever ceases to be good, she will also cease to be great."

Welcome to today and thanks for your time,

Bb

 

[vickie gee]

Horshack, raises hand before other students can "oogh, oogh, oogh, I know depart from me; I never knew you."

 

[Carriage]

Yes indeed Miss Vickie. Warts and all, I have chosen to not have that said to me.

No just as the repub/ fascist/ neocon refuses to read the very plain and easy to understand Constitution and apply it to all gov actions, they too will refuse to examine court rulings which counter their vacuous positions. To that end lets examine one of those. While the following does not speak to the aforementioned nuts and bolts. it does clearly and consisely detail the action of the fedgov/BLM thieves and liars. As Miss Vickie pointed out, this isn't about the cattle or a tortise (scheduled for extermination), but about consolidation of power. This is where the neo tries to find fault with the reporting or failing that, ignores it all together and strengthens the attack against the righteous....

For over 20 years, the Bureau of Land Management engaged in a “literal, intentional conspiracy” against Nevada ranchers to force them out of business, according to a federal judge whose court opinion exposes the BLM’s true intent against rancher Cliven Bundy.

In his opinion of United States v. Estate of Hage, U.S. District Court Judge Robert C. Jones reveals that after late Nevada rancher E. Wayne Hage indicated on his 1993 grazing permit renewal that by signing the permit, he was not surrendering his family’s long-standing water and forage rights on the land, the BLM not only rejected the permit but also conspired for decades to both deny his family’s property rights and to destroy their cattle business.

“Based upon E. Wayne Hage’s declaration that he refused to waive his rights — a declaration that did not purport to change the substance of the grazing permit renewal for which he was applying, and which had no plausible legal effect other than to superfluously assert non-waiver of rights — the Government denied him a renewal grazing permit based upon its frankly nonsensical position that such an assertion of rights meant that the application had not been properly completed,” Judge Jones wrote. “After the BLM denied his renewal grazing permit for this reason by letter, the Hages indicated that they would take the issue to court, and they sued the Government in the CFC [Court of Federal Claims.]”

And at that point, Jones explained, the BLM refused to consider any further applications from Hage.

“The entire chain of events is the result of the Government’s arbitrary denial of E. Wayne Hage’s renewal permit for 1993–2003, and the effects of this due process violation are continuing,” he stated.

Judge Jones continued:

In 2007, unsatisfied with the outcome thus far in the CFC, the Government brought the present civil trespass action against Hage and the Estate. The Government did not bring criminal misdemeanor trespass claims, perhaps because it believed it could not satisfy the burden of proof in a criminal trespass action, as a previous criminal action against E. Wayne Hage had been reversed by the Court of Appeals. During the course of the present trial, the Government has: (1)invited others, including Mr. Gary Snow, to apply for grazing permits on allotments where the Hages previously had permits, indicating that Mr. Snow could use water sources on such land in which Hage had water rights, or at least knowing that he would use such sources; (2) applied with the Nevada State Engineer for its own stock watering rights in waters on the land despite that fact that the Government owns no cattle nearby and has never intended to obtain any, but rather for the purpose of obtaining rights for third parties other than Hage in order to interfere with Hage’s rights; and (3) issued trespass notices and demands for payment against persons who had cattle pastured with Hage, despite having been notified by these persons and Hage himself that Hage was responsible for these cattle and even issuing such demands for payment to witnesses soon after they testified in this case.
By filing for a public water reserve, the Government in this case sought specifically to transfer to others water rights belonging to the Hages. The Government also explicitly solicited and granted temporary grazing rights to parties who had no preferences under the TGA [
http://www.blm.gov/wy/st/en/field_offices/Casper/range/taylor.1.htmlTaylor Grazing Act of 1934
http://www.blm.gov/wy/st/en/field_offices/Casper/range/taylor.1.html], such as Mr. Snow, in areas where the Hages had preferences under the TGA.
It is necessary to note that under the TGA, according to Red Canyon Sheep Co. v. Ickes (1938), a rancher whose cattle had previously grazed in the area based upon adjacent land, water rights on the land, etc., has a right to a grazing permit over others who apply for a permit to graze the area without having previously grazed there.

So in this instance, Hage would have priority over Snow for a grazing permit, but the BLM willfully ignored this court ruling.

And after the agency filed for a public water reserve, according to Judge Jones, the BLM “sent trespass notices to people who leased or sold cattle to the Hages, notwithstanding the Hages’ admitted and known control over that cattle, in order to pressure other parties not to do business with the Hages, and even to discourage or punish testimony in the present case.”

“For this reason, the Court has held certain government officials in contempt and referred the matter to the U.S. Attorney’s Office,” he wrote. “In summary, government officials, and perhaps also Mr. Snow, entered into a literal, intentional conspiracy to deprive the Hages not only of their permits but also of their vested water rights.”

“This behavior shocks the conscience of the Court and provides a sufficient basis for a finding of irreparable harm to support the injunction described at the end of this Order.”

So in other words, the BLM willfully attempted to destroy the Hage family’s livelihood because Hage dared to assert his existing rights to the land which his family has held since the late 19th century.

And unfortunately the BLM is attempting to do the exact same thing to Cliven Bundy.

“Has Attorney General Eric Holder prosecuted any federal officials for criminal activity and violation of the Hage family’s constitutionally protected rights? No,” William F. Jasper, senior editor of The New American, wrote on the subject. “Has Sen. Harry Reid denounced this lawlessness and criminal activity by government officials and call upon President Obama and Attorney General Holder to protect the citizens of his state from the depredations of federal officials under their command? No.”

“With attitudes such as those expressed above by Sen. Harry Reid, it is almost a certainty that the recently defused Bundy Ranch standoff will be replayed again — and in the not-too-distant future. And the outcome could be much less amicable for all concerned.”

This article was posted: Thursday, April 17, 2014 at 2:26 pm

Indeed it will, it has been happening for decades now.

Thanks for your time,

Bb

 

[Marsha Cassada]

One thing that is bound to be a huge mover/shaker of economics in the future is water rights. Do you know if you own the water in the pond on your property? (Well, dang! ours are dried up now, so guess that isn't an issue...)

 

[Carriage]

Well Miss Marsha, hits the nail on the head I suspect.

In review of the Bundy situation, I did watch a short video clip from a previous Realtor and developer in that area and he stated that there was a "DOD contractor working with the military for control of "resources". Additionally he stated that there was MUCH underground water in that area.

As for this being a future economic mover and shaker, it has been for the last two decades to my knowledge. Various gov's and corps. ARE jockeying for position and ownership of water in the water wars to come.

If your pond is fed from a stream, river or what have you, said water belongs to the fedgov through exhaustive legislation. This has been the case for some time now through "navigable waterways" legislation years ago. You might be surprised as to what the fedgov considers "navigable". And I would point out to you that again there is no enumeration allowing the servant, ownership, administration or trusteeship of any of it.

And still they sleep.....

Bb

 

[REO]

I would not just rant, I'd spew and post a ton of links. I try VERY hard not to post stuff elsewhere, but some times I shake so hard with ANGER and the desire to get people to read and THINK & question, that I get carried away. I don't think I can let myself do that here. I'm not sure once started, I could stop. I literally cry and shake with hurt and anger over what is being gotten away with.

Did you all see the Bundy cattle they slaughtered & buried? It was NEVER about tortoises. Today I hear 100's of FBI are amassing in Vegas (only 80 miles from the ranch.) It remains to be seen, but it would not surprise me.

I'm a PROUD AMERICAN and SHE comes first. I sum up my feelings this way: I'm rather die on my feet than live on my knees

Crawling back under my rock before I start posting links LOL

 

[shorthorsemom]

Have you heard about the ebola virus escaping Africa and is now in Italy and Europe is at risk. That was scary reading this morning. Evidently this virus can test negative for some time allowing spread of the virus. 85% mortality.

Now that is more scary than a nevada rancher... No it was never about the tortoises. As usual the focus is on something that has nothing to do with what is reported.. hmmmm... sounds a bit like Benghazi.

 

[poniesrule]

I've been away for a few days.... new here, so nice to meet you Carriage!

Ok, heading back a few pages to read more....

 

[vickie gee]

Yeah, Robin I hear ya. I saw the pictures of the slaughtered livestock buried so shoddy that their legs were sticking out of the sand.

Guess there really were some "shovel ready jobs" being created.

 

[Carriage]

Specific to the "water wars" theme briefly mentioned, the world bank has confirmed the tactic being used and further because of the loans they make to "privatize water", they also have the attendant control to make sure that this privatization is FULLY in their control by proxy of "elected" or chosen marrionettes . Again, "privatization" has been the rally cry for a subset of politico's for some time. Understanding what is meant by the chant is VERY important as it is a rally cry to strengthen the worlds middle tier management class. Does the class remember whom this despicable, greedy and bloodthirsty level of management is?

As we are not allowed to post short articles, you can see it at Investment watch, April 18th and titled "World bank wants water privatized, despite risks". While no amount of evidence will penetrate the hardcore mindset, I am hopeful that those who are seeking will see for themselves.Otherwise, preaching to the choir, other than to support the illumined just plain takes to much time.

Thanks for your time,

Bb

 

[HGFarm]

Crack down on food at schools? WHO is determining what is 'healthy'?!! You mean that our food that contains chemicals, toxic products, hormones, is GMO, full of dyes, artificial flavors and other ingredients, etc... is ok??!! Where do they draw the line? The powers that be thinks all that is ok, so where do you draw the line? Hmmmmmmmmm

 

[vickie gee]

Yes, Carriage you are preaching to the choir. Maybe others would like to pick up the torch and carry it but realizing we are all living in a Nanny State is surely a scary thing. Especially when you are getting real news instead boot licker lame stream media. I listen to American Family Radio on my drive to and from work and sometimes the truth gets me so livid I have to switch to either uplifting music or just turn off the radio so I can relax and do my work and chores. Like you, I am working hard just to stay caught up with everyday routine and then some. I think today is a good day to be in the choir.

music...Thank you Lord for saving my soul. Thank you Lord for making me whole. Thank you Lord for giving to me Thy great salvation so rich and free.

 

[MountainWoman]

You know maybe there is a problem with the feds grabbing land and maybe not. I read that they are trying in Texas but geez is there going to be any open land left that isn't developed? I know in Vermont the state owns a lot of land and if it didn't it would be full of houses.

Anyway, the water rights issue is way more troubling to me as it can have a devastating effect on farmers. The implications of it are huge. But then again all the farm land is disappearing anyway. That's my big pet peeve - the development of useful, productive farm land and being okay with our food coming from abroad. You wouldn't imagine how many gorgeous hay fields, pasture lands, farm lands you drive through here that are now just housing developments.

Thanks for letting me rant about that.

As to Ebola, I was just watching the old movie "Outbreak" last week and it's not a pleasant thought at all to consider anyone dying in that way.

And why was there not much talk about all the doctors who were murdered on Wednesday?