Appy breeders

[Becky]

I know very little about the appaloosa patterns as I've specialized in overo and tovero pinto patterns. However, I've just acquired the cutest little yearling appy filly and she has me baffled! The sire of the filly is a black leopard appaloosa. The dam is a solid bay. The filly was born bay but now looks 'grey' for lack of a better color choice. She has all the appy characteristics; striped hooves, mottled skin under her tail and around her lips. I can't tell if she has actual spotting with her winter coat. My question is, would she be considered a varnish roan?? Or something else?

I'll see if I can get some pics of her from last summer to post.

Thanks! :saludando:

 

[MiniHoofBeats]

Becky,

Well you should have asked me LOL I love appaloosa colors, patterns, genetics, etc! It's all so fascinating to me, I study about it all the time and appy is still my #1 favorite pattern, next to overo of course =) I hope someday to breed an overoloosa foal that distinctly shows both patterns!

Click up some photo's! One very distinct thing about Varnish roan...if you noticed what letter I capitalized...V! A Varnish roan keeps color on the bony parts of the body...hips, withers, knees, etc. and on the head it'll keep color along the cheek bones, and down the nose. Down the nose you will distinctly see a V of color! That is how to tell if you have a Varnish roan gene at work.

Hope that helped a little!

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Since she does not have a Grey or a Roan parent, Yes she is going varnish, but she may also just be going near leopard- that is how it often starts , and Yes it can easily be as late as this or later.

So Yes you have a Varnish at the moment, by the sounds of it, but spots may also appear.

 

[Little Wee Horse Farm]

Apps can changed pattern for, well, they used to say 8 years, now the thinking is 10 years! I've seen it happen where a pintaloosa mare didn't get ANY appy spots until she was 8 years old........Then, she colored out with spots all over her pinto markings.

But we've had foals born black out of two leopards, with four-five generations of appy close up in the pedigree, on top & bottom. Right now, we have a coming yearling in the barn, who is from two leopards, but she looks black -- at this minute. She was born with app sclera, so I knew she had the Lp gene, but now she's getting roaning on her chest, her muzzle & around her eyes. Her tail, I noticed yesterday, isn't any longer all black, now it's got light grey stripes down both sides. Yeah, I'm expecting her to app out, but don't know what pattern.

Even if you do get a varnish next time your baby sheds, it could be almost anything else as the years go by, with each shedding. Just when you think an app is done surprising you, you can get something completely different next spring.

Of course, this isn't always the case, but it does happen. That's one of the reasons apps are such fun.

 

[Becky]

Thanks for your replies! Her sire was born black with a blanket and he is now, as an adult, totally white with black spots over his whole body.

Here is the filly at birth and then mid summer clipped.

 

[Viki]

I suspect, she will be a leopard, like her sire. Guess we'll see as time goes on! When she was bathed & clipped this summer, there were distinct pigmentation spots on her skin! But, she had to be wet to see them! They were larger spots than her sire has! I've always said, breeding appys is not for the faint of heart! They WILL keep you guessing!

I hope you enjoy her threw the years!

By the way, her sire is my avatar!

Viki

 

[Little Wee Horse Farm]

Mini Hoofbeats -- Maybe I'm misinterpreting, but it sounds that you are describing "roan," not necessarily varnish in apps. Roan darkens the bony areas you are attributing to varnish, I believe. I've been wrong before, but..........someone correct me if I'm wrong, please.

Becky & Viki -- Beautiful baby, by the way!

Here's one of our little fillies on the day she was born, and then at about 6 weeks, when we clipped her. That's her in our avatar as an adult. They do change a lot!

 

[Debby - LB]

Hi Becky this beautiful Filly is a Gray Appaloosa. The distinct (for lack of a better word) "goggles" around the eyes at birth confirm this. Her sire carries gray, his dam was a gray. World of Miniatures had gray in their appies, I know this because I have one and researched their program -I have a drop dead gorgeous gray appaloosa mare who will throw gray 25% of the time....as Feather will and did here.

 

[justagirl]

I know he's not a mini but this is the app I recently sold , notice the wishbone on his forehead. Just out of curiosity , does anyone know what pattern he is ??

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Extended Blanket over Varnish!!

The goggles on the foal can also come with Appy- it is normally the first indication of the appy pattern coming through- so it could be appy, it could be the Grey coming through- just another reason never to intermix Grey or Roan and Appy!!

Karen that mare is Silver Bay base- no wonder she looks Palomino!!! Pretty mare, and Yes I have known mares stay solid Black til six and then suddenly get spots- and I do mean SPOTS!!!

My Appy mare was jet Black until she turned a year then she got "goggles" (no Grey in this one!!) and then suddenly she shed her winter coat and went Appy in about a week!!

To be Leopard a horse must be born Leopard- my mare is a near Leopard even though she now has almost no dark on her anywhere.

 

[Meavey]

Hi Becky this beautiful Filly is a Gray Appaloosa. The distinct (for lack of a better word) "goggles" around the eyes at birth confirm this. Her sire carries gray, his dam was a gray. World of Miniatures had gray in their appies, I know this because I have one and researched their program -I have a drop dead gorgeous gray appaloosa mare who will throw gray 25% of the time....as Feather will and did here.

I think your right her sire does look grey.

My friends grey appaloosa was born black and went white very fast too but still showed spots in the white coat.

Only now the spots are slowly starting to fade too.

 

[Debby - LB]

Thanks Linda sometimes they do go white very fast. Sometimes with gray when they have other genetics going on, such as appaloosa they do retain some color. Beckys Filly Missy.... in the second photo posted here looks exactly like my DD did on her young temporary registration photos. DD is now solid white but she has 2 black spots on her, one on her hip & one on her knee, she'll be 11 in June. Her name is World of Miniatures Dotty Le Dish, she's related to Feather. As a matter of fact that is her in my avatar, gorgeous mare.

 

[HGFarm]

I completely agree with Debby that the sire is a gray, and the filly is graying out. I never incorporate grays into my herd as I want the true color to stay and not fade away. The white rings around the eyes of the foal pic are a tell tale sign that it is a gray. Many years ago a friend bought a 'white' appy mare and her 'white daughter'. The mare was bred and foaled the loudest black and white filly you EVER saw. But.... she had white rings around her eyes, and I commented she would end up white like the dam and sister. The people got very angry with me- but in a year, that filly was as white as could be.

ApHC had passed a rule a zillion years ago (ok, I am dating myself) that no grays could be used for breeding. I am not sure about the Paint and Pinto registries, since they like their color too.

She is a nice filly, and her sire is nice too, if you dont mind the grays and dont care what color they end up. Quality is most important!

 

[Becky]

Thanks for your responses. I do think this filly is a grey appaloosa and that she will turn white. If she weren't appy, I would have known for sure she was grey and never questioned it. However, since I don't know much about the appaloosa color patterns, I thought there might be something else going on. Here are a couple of pics of her today showing her grey appearance.

 

[angel_cowgirl]

Oh wow, how she changed! And quickly!

 

[ThreeCFarm]

Honestly, I'm not well versed on Appys (although my all time favorite big horse is a varnish Appy), but I have always suspected that filly was gray, and the only one it could have come from is Feather. No matter either of their colors, both Missy and Feather are GORGEOUS! Congratulations Becky!

 

[walter]

Don't know what color she is but I do know she is drop dead gorgeous !!!

Clara

 

[Charlotte]

Oh! She is absolutely DARLING! I love that tiny muzzle and short little head and that big hind end!

I know nothing about appy coloring so will stay out of this discussion

:

 

[zacharyfarms]

Hi Becky,

I saw where you joined the Appaloosa Project with your question. You should definately get your answer from Sheila.

Judy

 

[Tony]

I know that many of you have already seen this example, but for the newbies here is the best example of color change that I have. This colt started as bay with no white hair and no pink skin that we could find. He started getting white at age three, looking like someone had frosted his mane, then ended up looking like marble.

Little America's X- Skipper