appy breeding question

[yankee_minis]

I have a few spot appy mare. (her sire is Yellow Diamond Little Feather)

I think someone once told me that if I bred her to a leopard appy I would get a very colorful foal.

Does it make a difference if it is a leopard appy or a near leopard appy?

 

[RMH]

From what the researchers are saying now, few spot and snowcap appies are homozygous for appaloosa. If so, anything you breed her to should be some kind of appy.

 

[yankee_minis]

Let me rephrase what I wrote.... she is a solid black horse except for a few white spots on her back.... does that make her a few spot appy?

(I think I asked this before LOL)

hmm...so if I bred her to a pinto she might throw a pintaloosa?

interesting

 

[rabbitsfizz]

No, definitely not!! I am always suspicious of "few spots" most are varnish roan Appies. A Few Spot is NOT a horse with a few spots

A few Spot is white all over, with blue eyes and no spots. No spots on the skin, nada!! It is the result of two Appies, and there a re "few" around!! They are homozygous for spots, mated to anything they throw spots. I have only ever seen one and seen photos of maybe two more. "Snowcap" (blanket with no spots on it) is also homozygous, and the blanket can extend to cover the whole body, leaving just points with colour. Does your mare have any other spotted characteristics??

 

[Sue_C.]

A few Spot is white all over, with blue eyes and no spots. No spots on the skin, nada!! It is the result of two Appies, and there a re "few" around!!

Sorry, Rabbit, I have to differ with you here.

A few-spot, may have a "few-spots", sometimes has darker colour on the legs, and does not have to have blue eyes...actually, in the "real" Appaloosa world, blue eyes are not thought of fondly at all. Yes, definately the result of two appys, and one of them; must be a leopard as well. And yup, as Rabbit said, they aren't very common, but not really rare. (At least not in the Appaloosa breed.) They are also BORN a few-spot, not another colour that changes to white sometime after birth.

A black/brown/red horse with white spots all over, would be called a snow-flake...and was probably born either solid, or with a small blanket, and is on it's way to becoming a varnish-roan appy.

 

[littlesteppers]

No, definitely not!!  I am always suspicious of "few spots"  most are varnish roan Appies.  A Few Spot is NOT a horse with a few spots

A few Spot is white all over, with blue eyes and no spots.  No spots on the skin, nada!!  It is the result of two Appies, and there a re "few" around!!  They are homozygous for spots, mated to anything they throw spots.  I have only ever seen one and seen photos of maybe two more.  "Snowcap"  (blanket with no spots on it) is also homozygous, and the blanket can extend to cover the whole body, leaving just points with colour.  Does your mare have any other spotted characteristics??

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Well I am a Toby person..BUT I never heard that a few spot needs to have blue eyes..I heard diamond patterns on lower legs..But blue eyes??

 

[hairicane]

LOL, there are no guarantees of getting loud color from breeding ANY 2 appys together. In fact the loud beautiful spotted ones will only produce loud color about 50% of the time, IF U ARE LUCKY.

As stated sorry but your mare is not a few spot. She would have to be born mostly white with maybe a couple spots out of 2 appy parents. True fewspots and snowcaps in minis are rare and u really need to be able to see pictures of the horse at birth and pix of the parents to really be sure. Plenty are advertised as such but are not or u cant be sure of it. I try to always get pix at birth of my appy foals so I have proof if I am lucky enough to get a homozygous one born here. Last year we were blessed with 2!!!!!!

 

[Little Wee Horse Farm]

Sorry, this is a pet peeve of mine, so I gotta jump in here. There has not been ANY appaloosa pattern PROVEN to be homozygous. Snowcap & few spots are the SUSPECTED most likely to be homozygous, but they are not yet PROVEN. I hate seeing ads that say this or that horse is "homozygous" for appaloosa. Not yet!!

The researching geneticists are getting close to finding the gene, but they haven't as yet. I am careful to word my ads that this pattern is SUSPECTED to be homozygous for appy, not IS homozygous. It is believed to be highly likely to be homozygous, but I can't say it IS!!!

Sorry, to me, it's like screaming chalk across a blackboard....do they still have those?

We're lucky enough to have two snowcap mares at this time. When bred to a leopard, one has produced a snowcap just like herself; the other was bred to a few spot/snow cap combo, and the filly born is bay with a small blanket, lots of mottling from birth and striped hooves. She is about 6 few weeks old & is changing drastically. Her mane & tail is coming in white, even tho now it's black! She is changing color over her entire body, not just the rings around the eyes that foals get when they shed out.

And I too don't agree about the blue eyes -- never heard that before.

I agree with Hairicane -- you never know what you'll get when you are breeding apps........that's what makes it such a challenge and so much fun!

 

[appypintolady]

My Avatar is a few spot filly. You can get an idea of what they look like from that. She was confirmed a few spot by Shiela Archer of the Appaloosa Project

 

[Sue_C.]

Sorry, this is a pet peeve of mine, so I gotta jump in here. There has not been ANY appaloosa pattern PROVEN to be homozygous. Snowcap & few spots are the SUSPECTED most likely to be homozygous, but they are not yet PROVEN. I hate seeing ads that say this or that horse is "homozygous" for appaloosa. Not yet!!

Not for much longer...according to the last issue of Horse Canada. There is an article which speaks of a study started in 1998, and completed in 2003; which "discovered the location of the LP gene. This "master gene" is located in chromosone 1, and researchers are hopeful that soon a DNA test can be developed to determine the presence of the LP." In this article, they do refer to the few-spot as being homozygous LP.

Whether you consider it homozygous or not...an appy doesn't have to be born wildly coloured to have appy characteristics...like pinto , it can come close to "hiding", and be easily missed by those who don't know what to look for.

I have known two few-spot stallions, several geldings, and three mares...none of the breeding horses ever sired or produced anything but an appy with characteristics, if not the whole "shebang".

. One of these mares produced several few-spots herself.

She was confirmed a few spot by Shiela Archer of the Appaloosa Project

In the study I referred to, Shiela Archer is/was one of the researchers involved as you say "appypintolady".

 

[appypintolady]

Yes, They are working very hard to isolate the LP gene. Let's hope they do very soon!!!

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I have to say your very pretty filly looks like an extended Snowcap to me. Whilst this lady may be well thought of and knowledgeable, it is only, at the moment, her opinion, not a proven fact. I knew that would be like kicking a wasp nest

But I stand by what I say from personal experience. The one thing that none of us, including me, seem to have taken into account is that other factors (Grey, Roan etc) will affect Snowcap and Fewspot in exactly the same way as they affect anything else- so, I presume it would be possible to get a Fewspot masked by Varnish, which would account for some of the strange looking "fewspots" I have seen claimed. The one I have known, which is totally proven Fewspot, has been breeding for years and never had anything except spots from solid, Native Shetland (no spot genetic) mares, was born SOLID Black, and faded within days to white with just a sprinkle of colour in the mane. He is now snow white with blue eyes. The one I suspected but was not proven- sold to the US and lost track, was born SOLID Chestnut and again, faded to white within days of birth, he had hazel eyes, born blue. The full sized colt I know of, again not proven since he is only a yearling, is white with blue eyes- two full Leopard parents reg. Appaloosa. Both the other colts had Leopard parents.

 

[Manyspots]

Interesting views to say the least!

 

[zacharyfarms]

Whilst this lady may be well thought of and knowledgeable, it is only, at the moment, her opinion, not a proven fact.

No disrespect meant here, Jane but "The Appaloosa Project is an example of the "new genetics" in action with recent developments in molecular biology particularly with respect to gene mapping technology, it is now possible to find

genes in a way that was not previously possible. The projects team is composed

of two phenotype researchers Sheila Archer and Dr. Sponenburg , and a large

number of genotype researchers (Dr. Terry, Dr. Bailey, and Dr. Brooks, Dr.Bellone

being the main players at this point in time).

There is a worldwide effort underway to "map the genome" of many

animals, including the horse. "The Appaloosa Project" is connected to

that effort. The old paradigm was phenotype-based, that is, they had

only the physical appearence of Appaloosas to make their judgements

from. Now they are able to take phenotype evidence forward and verify

it in the lab, finding the actual genetic mechanisms involved in the

physical traits they observe.

The Appaloosa Genetics Project consists at this time of the following phases:

Phase 1 - The E-effect Study

Phase 2 - Genome Scan for Lp

Phase 3 - The White Pattern Gene Study

 

[rabbitsfizz]

No, no Judy you misunderstand me (sorry folks, I'm on new medication, please bear with me for a while

) I meant the fact that the horse was or was not homozygous was her opinion, not that the work she had done was!! Does that make any sense?? This confusion should hopefully only last a few days- if I am snappy or daft please ignore mw

 

[Jill]

I don't know much of anything regarding the genetics of appy characteristics HOWEVER, I do know that my very LOUD leopard appaloosa, Appy Hollow Jack of Diamonds, is by a few spot leopard stallion and out of a solid color mare! And, I think his equally loud 1/2 brother is also out of a solid color mare... So, I do think there's a good chance of getting LOUD color using a few spot horse.

Also, your mare is DunIT's auntie

Or at least 1/2 auntie!

 

[zacharyfarms]

Yes Jane that does make sense...and you are right..and she will be the first to tell you that only with progeny ( at least 10 foals) can you be fairly certain that the horse is homozygous for LP...but they are expecting to have a test very very soon

for the public...Sure hope your meds straighten out soon...How is everything in the London area right now...it has to be a little scarry frightening to go anywhere on the public transportation..Prayers are sent for all of you there.

 

[Vanessa]

Fewspots are born with a light colour on the body and some darker colours on the legs and head. On the body can be some spots in all kinds of colours.

Fewspots are homozygote appaloosa's. Even when you breed them with a one colour horse, the foal will have appie characteristics.

This is my mare, Spotless Angel Delight, she is definitly a fewspot, I hope she will give me some nice appie foals.

This is a fewspot foal, a halfbrother off one of my mares.

And the father of the foal and my silverapple snowcap appaloosa mare, also a fewspot.

So now you have some examples on how a fewspot looks like!

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

ok well first if it was as easy as breeding a few spot to a near lepoard to get a loud appy foal everyone would have them

it is always just luck ofthe draw as far as the loudness goes i have seen very minimal apps throw very loud and vice versa.

I have a few spot she is a true few spot and does have just that a few spots everywhere from her ears to her hind end she doesnt have blue eyes i have NEVER heard that and totally respectfully disagree- have yet to meet an appy breeder either big or small who say that is the case.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

The Varnish Roans above are a perfect example of what I was saying earlier. If they are Fewspot it is being hidden by Varnish, Fewspots do not have colour on their body. It is possible of course that they are x extended Snowcaps- I do not know enough about their background to hazard a guess.