Appy coloring

[yellerroseintx]

The only real way of increasing the chance of a patterned foal is to use a Fewspot or Snowcap stallion(preferably).Even then, as with any H/Z animal, even using a leopard patterned mare, you can get minimal characteristics only.

Leopard X Leopard gives you a 50/50 chance of a patterned foal, so does Leopard X Solid.

If you get a solid foal as a result of two patterned parents you are just unlucky, if you get quite a few patterned foals as a result of a Patterned X Solid mating, you are just lucky.

Look at it this way, a stallion has a potential 1,000 foals in his lifetime ( I know it's more but that is a nice round figure!) So, 500 of these foals will be patterned, 500 will be solid.

IF the first 500 are solid, everyone throws up their hands and says the horse never throws pattern!

It is merely the luck of the draw!

And, of course, statistics rarely happen that way, but there is a horse on ECF at the moment that just that has happened with, he is not H/Z but has yet, coincidentally, to throw an unpatterned foal.

you are soooo right..I know someone who sold her appy stallion because he just never threw any color....well...first foal out of him with the new owner was a loud leopard!!!!!

 

[ohmt]

Just what I was going to say. I have a silver dapple mare with tons of mottling, the eyes, striped hooves...etc. The only white she has is lacing on her back (and yes,it is only lacing). She was bred to a silver bay blanketed stud. The resulting foal had no visible mottling but did have striped hooves. Well when he went pee I saw his mottling. He is now 2 and has white hair all over his body like he is graying. It is also on his face so I would not say it is roaning. Oh and he now has a white spot about the size of a dime on the front of his rear leg just above the hock. I think he has a foal due with my snowcap appy mare so we will see if he throws color.

First of all, you can't use the striped hooves as an indicator of appy when the horse is also silver--don't know if the stallion you are talking about is, i'm just guessing since both sire and dam have silver. Many silvers have striped hooves so thats why you have to throw that out. Would love to see a pic of the mare and stallion with the just the characteristics if you have any and would be willing to share! p.s.--If the mare you have in foal to said stallion is a true snowcap, the foal should be appy no matter what (even if it doesn't develop characteristics til later). If the stallion passes along any appy genes then the foal will be snowcap/few spot which means it obtained an appy gene from both sire and dam. If not either of those, then just the dam will be the one to have contributed any color

 

[Katiean]

ohmt, I don't have any pictures asI am in the process of switching out computers. I am supposed to take pictures today for one of the other horses perm papers. I will try To get pics of all mares that have been "involved" with my stud. I am hopefully getting all 3 checked by ultrasound to see if they are in fact pregers. I hope they aren't but it is my own stupid fault if they are. I left them all with him until April of this year. If I can get the pics to download on this computer I will post them.

 

[ohmt]

ohmt, I don't have any pictures asI am in the process of switching out computers. I am supposed to take pictures today for one of the other horses perm papers. I will try To get pics of all mares that have been "involved" with my stud. I am hopefully getting all 3 checked by ultrasound to see if they are in fact pregers. I hope they aren't but it is my own stupid fault if they are. I left them all with him until April of this year. If I can get the pics to download on this computer I will post them.

Isn't switching computers such a pain?! I've had to switch 3 times this past year...incredibly frustrating. Definitely get those girls ultrasounded! You never know what happens when you're not looking

My grandma always loves to tell the story of a mare she bought once to people who ask if they can leave their mares in with their stallion over winter and not have then end up pregs. We do live in ND so 9 times out of 10 its ok BUT....

She bought a mare from a guy who only had 2 minis (stallion and the mare) that he had as pets. My grandma LOVED the mare-took her home in August. no problems. THEN, January comes along (everyone who lives in ND knows that January and February are always the coldest months of the year...down to 60 below sometimes. mmm mmm can't wait for winter!) and my grandma goes out one morning and WHOA! BABY!!!

I believe she named that filly "Ono" LOL

 

[Tony]

I have found that roans are excellent in breeding apps. I went several years with only patterned foals from roan mares bred to our colored stallions before I had a solid. Then it turned colored over the next five years. I use mostly mares that I have bred the last few years and here are some examples for you to study.

Here are some of our results this year:

Little America's Orion All Over bred to Little America's Tex Husseler gets Little America's Hussel Over.

X

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Same stallion bred to Little America's Miss Loud N Tuff gets Little America's Over Loud.

X

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Same stallion bred to Hunt House Farm's Ruby Feather gets Little America's Orion Spotacular.

X

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Little America's Kickapoo Joy Boy bred to Little America's Tex Belle gets Little America's Kickin' Crazy Horse.

X

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[Tony]

Continued:

Little America's Kickapoo Joy Boy bred to Little America's LNC Katrina gets Little America's Kickin' Monticello.

X

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Some have mentioned that LOUD to LOUD doesn't work. That's not necessarily so in all instances. Here is Little America's Sterling Storm bred to Little America's Tex Hallelujah to get Little America's S S Katchina Doll, one of my all time favorites.

X

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Sorry this is so long, but hope it helps show some app breeding. You can see more on our site if you are interested.

 

[HGFarm]

I'm with Tony..... the roan mares we've had over the years, both full sized and Minis, in my opinion, have been very strong color producers, producing all types of patterns. With the full sized ones, our minimal roan mare had a snowcap foal just about every time she was bred, no matter what pattern the stallion was. She had no color when we bought her- just characteristics, and then just got some roaning through her rear and flanks.

My one roan Mini mare, who was also born solid, as most roan Appies are, has produced nothing but Appies for me- with a variety of patterns. Some were roans, one had spots over his rear, one a leopard, and she's had two snowcaps now.

I do have a mare that had only characteristics when I got her, and now has light roaning throughout her body. Her first two foals were by a few spot. The first was colored, the second only had characteristics. Her three foals by my leopard have been solid with no characteristics. However, that same stallion, with my other mares (one with less roaning than even she has) were at least born with characteristics, and were coloring more with time. I have also gotten a couple of few spots from him.

It is totally a 'crapshoot' but that's what makes it fun, LOL. However, I can tell you that every time you breed to a non Appaloosa, you are diluting the gene pool and your chance of color even more. Unfortunately you can't see which horse carries a 'stronger gene' or whatever amoung the Appies, to produce what you want, so it's all a big fat experiment.

 

[Kim~Crayonboxminiatures]

Here are my 2009 Foals:

Snoflake/roan appy mare x fewspot stallion

Foal Crayonbox Color The Wind, a near leopard appy

Tobiano/sabino pinto mare x fewspot stallion

Foal Crayonbox Color Made, a leopard appy

Here is pics of the sire of both fillies CCMF Legacy's Color Maker

 

[Manyspots]

this has been a fun thread to read! Looks like I should take some pics and post too!

 

[Darkstar]

Hey Zoey. Your frustration is completely understood by anyone that has tried to breed for the appaloosa pattern! I think this is why so many people get out trying to breed appaloosas. It's hard enough to try and breed good horses and if you throw loud colored horses into the mix ARG!!! LOL My best advise to you if you want appaloosa patterns is to forget about appaloosa patterns and breed the best horse that you can. The easiest thing you can change on a horse is it's color! Most people think that to create loud patterned horses you need loud patterned horses. I have found this is simply not true. I have gotten the loudest color out of mares that just have appaloosa roaning and appaloosa characteristics. This supports the appaloosa projects theory that there are certain modifier genes that allow or promote the appaloosa pattern. Don't look at what's on the outside of a horse as much as what's on the inside of a horse. This applies to both color and conformation. The problem with breeding for appaloosa patterned horses is that they do not breed true. Leopards snowcaps/fewspots/fewcaps yadda yadda yadda.... they still do not guarantee you loud offspring but they are very valuable in "proving" a good appaloosa breeding program. That is if you are putting conformation ahead of color! Forgive me but I'm starting to ramble.

Join the appaloosa project or IMAPC if you want to learn more about breeding appaloosas. You'll find lots of people with a wealth of knowledge about appaloosas.

 

[zoey829]

I do belong to the Appaloosa Project VERY interesting and the people are awesome. So true that confirmation and health is above all. I am just curious to see what does what????

 

[Marsha Cassada]

I recently got a 2 year old appaloosa. His dam is a bay and his sire is a leopard appaloosa. His dam had an appaloosa colt the year before, sired by a different appaloosa stallion. When Dusty was born, he was all brown with a tiny white spot under his tail. When he shed out this year, he is quite spotted. I'm looking forward to seeing what he looks like next year.