Are there breeders not breeding for the Arabian type

[Magic Marker Minis]

I had a Ferzon bred Arabian gelding (flea-bitten gray) That was back in 2000... He was tall, rangy and didn't have a typical 'typey' Arab head... People kept asking me if he was an Appaloosa...

I traded him in for a pure Polish Arab mare that was everything that I wanted in an Arabian... Beautiful bay, barely 14 hands (harkened back to desert bred size) with three white socks and a blaze... AND, the nicest, dishy-est head you could ever see on an Arabian... Her grandsire was El Paso and her tail-female grandsire was Wiking... I would KILL to find her and buy her back now... No one could mistake her for a darned Appaloosa! (No offence to Appaloosa lovers... ) ha-ha...

My cremello stallion, Casper (LK Doctor Dream son and LK Supreme Dream grandson) has a very dishy head... But has a 'chunkier' body than a typical Arabian... I expect if I were to put him on a 'Rocky' regime, I might 'slenderize' him to the point he would look Araby... But, he doesn't have a flat croup like an Arabian...

otoh, we have a Buck Echo grandson that has the flattest croup I've seen in a Mini... If I could put his butt on Casper... we'd have an Arabian in Miniature... (But, might look kinda funny with a brown butt and the rest of his body white...)

 

But they are both pretty boys!

 

[Magic Marker Minis]

Yeah... we LOVE em both... They make pretty babies, too! I can breed Casper to any mare we have, but we have to get some more mares for Rohan... He throws silver all the time... I expect he's homozygous... I need to find a couple of perlino mares for him so I can get silver buckskins... We mostly have black based mares so we've gotten two silver black foals from Rohan...

 

[HGFarm]

I dont know why people keep comparing the more refined, slender Minis to Arabians. I have also owned a couple of Arabians and I have yet to see a Mini that really truly looks like one. I have seen a lot of nice Minis that are more slender with dishier heads, but they would never be mistaken for an Arab. I dont know why the term Arab type started being used. Perhaps using something like refined, stocky, draft- those type of things would better describe which grouping a particular horse falls into?

 

[bunni1900]

These are my horses...I would say they are refined but IDK about Arabian-esque

My Junior Stallion, Rivendells Knights Dark Star



My senior stallion, Hooten Hollows Austin T



Rivendells Raisin Expectations 2011 filly



My harness mare Vintage Farms Sweet Sylvania



Sunnyside Dots a Carmel Chip 2003 mare



A Stable Business Shirley A Bouncer 2002 mare

 

[HGStables]

Here is my boy to me he is stunning but may not be everyones cup of tea!

 

[lucky seven]

HG Stables and Bunni, your minis are beautiful, love their coloring.

 

[Maple Hollow Farm]

I have to agree with those who have said that there really isnt a mini that I could truly mistake for an Arabian. There are some gorgeous headed horses, super refined ones, and everything but just not truly arab. We prefer more of a QH type body but do have a few that have more of the refined look that we are crossing with some of our stockier horses. I believe there is such a thing as too refined. Here are just a few examples of our different types we love.

 

[REO]

I like your horses Melinda!

 

[bunni1900]

HG Stables and Bunni, your minis are beautiful, love their coloring.

Thank you luck seven!

 

[Kendra]

Years ago we had mare and foal in a display at Spruce Meadows during the Masters. The mare, Robin, does have a beautiful head. All day we heard, "is she part arab?" Um ... no. Really surprising was when the people from the Arabian breeders booth came over and asked the same thing!

I wouldn't say that we breed for Arabian type. We try to raise correct, athletic, good minded horses with pretty faces.

 

[targetsmom]

I'm with Kendra- we breed for correct (balanced conformation), athletic, good minded horses with pretty heads.. and oh, yes, we breed for horses eligible for the Pinto registry, even if they happen to be gray.

 

[bunni1900]

Agreed. Balanced and correct conformation and a pretty head is the perfect combo!

 

[Mo mhuirnín]

All these horses are lovely in their own way but as much as the consensus is that they don't look Arabian none look quarter horse style to me. Plus why then are 99 % shown or presented like " Arabian" horses unnaturally posed and stretched.

 

[Minimor]

They aren't QH type but then again I have to say that minis that truly look like QHs are about as scarce as Minis who truly look like Arabians.

They are posed and shown Arabian style because people want them to look like Arabians. In actual fact, posing a horse like an Arabian does not make him an Arabian nor even Arabian type. I have seen people presenting stock or draft type minis the exact same way.

 

[Mo mhuirnín]

They aren't QH type but then again I have to say that minis that truly look like QHs are about as scarce as Minis who truly look like Arabians.

They are posed and shown Arabian style because people want them to look like Arabians. In actual fact, posing a horse like an Arabian does not make him an Arabian nor even Arabian type. I have seen people presenting stock or draft type minis the exact same way.

Great points- I wonder if a correct horse regardless of type would place in a show if shown and presented in a " non" Arabian style

Thoughts?

 

[MindyLee]

Great points- I wonder if a correct horse regardless of type would place in a show if shown and presented in a " non" Arabian style

Thoughts?

Not at a rated show in my opinion and experiances....

But could and do at fun or club shows.

 

[paintponylvr]

This thread also makes me laugh a bit... I admired Arabians when I spent years in Colorado. There were some big, well-known breeders in the area I was in and even in the 70's & 80's there were different "types" w/I that breed. There appear to be more or more noticeable differences now.

We currently own 3 purebred Arabian mares and they all go back to similar lines (on their papers). However, here and there is a different line. NONE of the 3 (or the previous 3 that I've sold) looks alike in "type" and none would be considered competitive at the "top" echelons of Arabian showing - in halter. It's kinda "funny" because the ones I favor (sport or western working type) are often mistaken for "pretty quarter horses", "old timey" morgans or "fancy" ponies (since all but one has been under 14.2)!! AND because all but one has been laid back and quiet (well trained!!), almost everyone goes into shock when I tell them "NOPE - that's an AY-RAB". "That's not possible" - is usually the reply - "they are crazy, they are mean and you let your kids ride those "idiots"???" has been some of responses (hmm - almost the same responses I get in public when I say that they grew up riding Shetland ponies or say that that Xbred is 1/2 Shetland).

Lately - I've noticed that all horse breeds seem to have different types based on what job that type is now specializing in. There are "running type" QH, working type QH, h/j QH (predominantly TB breeding?), pleasure type (in the wp/ep ring) and halter type. Morgans and Saddlebreds have also developed vastly different types. There are differences in the TB world - both in the running types and in the working types. There are distinct differences between the showring type Draft horses and the field working horses and they are bred along different lines. The longer I'm "involved" w/ draft horse folk, the more I see and hear of the dissidence between the factions - it's amazing! There are various "types" w/I the Arab breed and different "types" w/I the Shetland and Miniatures.

As to breeders out there breeding a type different than the "Arab type" - seems to me they can be hard to find, but they are out there. Right now, the "arab type" (dishy head, trimmer/lighter bodies) seem to be what is currently winning in the HALTER rings (not always) AND therefore that is what is advertised in the magazines. Also, many of the current ads emulate the Arab ads - very artistic photography and laid out artistically as well... It seems to work well. It's amazing what different angles and different poses can make a horse look like w/o airbrushing or "photoshopping". Many of my own ponies and horses have that "blah" factor when I'm either handling them or taking their photos - but every once in a while, you get THE ONE that just displays that horse to what may be his best potential to most people. Most are going to be with a very "pretty" head angle. I hate photos that are just head shots - I always wonder what is wrong with the rest of the horse. I like a pretty horse, but if I'm looking at a sale horse or a stallion at stud or the resulting foals from a stallion or mare - I want to see the whole package.

I have to admit - I like a "pretty" head. Pretty also relates (to me) to good conformation. I find that wide between the eyes, larger eyes, shorter between eye and nostril and large flaring nostrils are not only pleasing to MY eyes, but also seems to house a personality/disposition that I prefer (NOT ALWAYS, though). That type of head can look like it is dished but it may not be. A good "hinge" to the throatlatch and poll allows a working type horse to work more easily - to "bridle up", to breathe while working. However, that throatlatch can be taken to such extremes that a "working horse" can cheat easily - not reaching for or easily evading direction with/from a bit & bridle. I do gravitate to a more substantial body, aim for heavier bone in the frame/legs. I've found some possible problems w/I my own breeding program - but I hope to utilize some different type stallions to the mares that are a little "lite" in the frame & longer in the legs - while retaining the "pretty head", straight legs, balanced conformation & the personality/disposition that I like and need as an amateur owner/breeder/trainer.