At what age do you let you stallion have his first mare

[rabbitsfizz]

Honestly, I have never had any trouble settling mares with a two year old, and Carlos was a very immature two year old, I expected nothing of him, but he was fully fertile.

I think a lot of myths have grown up around this.

Personally I would never wait until a horse is five to breed it, there is no reason to, really.

I do agree with generally leaving Mini mares until they are three to breed, and one of my mare lines often does not "drop" in foal until five, but I do not purposely leave them until then.

 

[maestoso]

Rabbit, there are plenty of reasons to wait until a mare or stallion is 5 or even longer to breed.

What if the mare is show mare? For some stallions it is hard to manage being a breeding stallion and a show stallion, so that is another reason to wait. Or maybe the owner is just not ready or doesnt want to breed yet. There may not be any physiological reasons to wait, although sometimes there are, but there are plenty of reasons one might wait. I have NEVER heard of a 5 or 6 or even 8 yr old maiden mare having problems with foaling because their bones have "set". An 18 yr old maiden mare? Yah I'd be concerned. But anything less than 10ish years old is young and healthy and prime and there is no reason to be worried about breeding a maiden mare at that age.

 

[REO]

I usually wait until colts are three, but this year I gave Topper

(Kickapoo Moon's Phantom Feather) a few mares and they seem to have settled.

I'm so excited!

 

[My-Lil-Pony]

I would love to hear reasons as to why you breed early or late. Rabbitfizz I am guessing you do not show much from some of your replies. Do those that show tend to wait?

In the large horse world it seems to be much more common to wait until the horse is well started in the discipline of choice first.

 

[Ashley]

AT two I gave my stallion 7 mares(spred out through out spring and summer). All but one foaled, the one that didnt I dont beleive is his fault as I have been trying for a few years to get her bred with no luck. OUt of those 7 mares all but one were only bred one heat cycle.

 

[ohmt]

For me it depends on the stallion. I have no problem breeding 2 yr. old stallions OR mares if i feel they are mature enough. I haven't bred a 2 yr. old mare in a while as my mares seem to keep getting smaller and smaller. That makes me nervous when they're under 30" being bred as a 2 yr. old. I've had 2 mares that I've waited until age 5 to breed because they were so small and refined I wanted to make sure they were fully mature before attempting to breed them. For my stallions, it's all about if I think they are physically ready. All of my boys act like boys so if I decided to wait until I thought they were mentally ready it'd never happen. That's what teaching is for. Most of my stallions do need that extra year physically though. Even then sometimes they're just not as fertile as they would be at 3. I bred a 2 yr. old stallion a couple years ago that was very very mature physically but the mare didn't settle both cycles bred. The next year he settled 5 mares all on the first cycle no problem.

 

[Margaret]

My lil Pony,

Most early bred stallions dont make good show prospects as their minds are on the mares unless extensively worked with.

Although now I own a stallion that was first used for breeding before I decided to show him later .

He was a little excited to see so many other horses at the same show, and needed to be lunged to take some steam out of him.

He did do quite well in a stallion class later. ( its good I arrived early to work him. lol)

On a different note, I had an experience with a customer that was paying me to get her mare settled with one of my 2 stallions.

She preferred my younger 2 year old stallion, but I could not guarentee that he could settle her mare, because of his young age, although he was more than willing to breed her mare.

Since there was stud service involved, she was willing to let the older 5 year old stallion settle her mare,in the event that the younger one could not.

So the first breeding session was with the younger 2 year old, and they bred throuout the mares cycle.

But 21 days later, her mare recycled, so we let the older stallion settled her mare the following month.

2 year old stallions can settle mares, but if you are paying for a service, its best to go with an older proven stud

to settle that mare.

Now my younger stallion is 5, and settles mares every time on the first cycle, so thats why I say that maturity often matters with breeding stallions.

 

[Sandee]

As I've said I hand bred my stallion at 2 on the word of several known breeders. He handled it fine and is still the same low key guy. In fact he only bred one mare as a 5 year old and he's still showing and driving. He just seems to take it all in stride.

I feel totally different about mares. I wouldn't breed a filly until she's at least 3. On the other hand I'm not a big breeding facility either. I don't intend to breed my filly until 5 or later because she's good (winning) in performance classes. I want to enjoy her and eventually breed her and my stallion to see what they can produce. If the first one's no good it will be the last.

 

[EAD Minis]

I prefer 3 years old myself. Have bought stallions that were bred as 2 year olds though. I do have my two year old standing public stud for 2009 though, he will be 3 then. And he will also have one of my own mares to breed to this spring. I find 3 is a good age, they are more mature and seem to be able to cope with the 'mental' stress better.

Just personal opinion and depends on the horse. You know your horse best so listen to every ones opinions and decide for yourself

.

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

How many of these 2yo's have actually proven themselves and shown themselves to be worth breeding? Aren't there enough "useless", "unwanted" horses out there to make people more and more picky about high standards, allowing the horses being bred to have plenty of time to prove that they are the best out there?

 

[Miniv]

We have had five stallions that we "started" at breeding. Our very first stallion was SRF Headliner who we started at age 2 with handbreeding. He covered and settled 2 mares.

All of the other stallions were age 3. We prefer to pasture breed, but to introduce them to their first mare and teach them manners, we've done handbreeding to start them.

Several of the stallions were shown as yearlings and two year olds before turning them into breeding studs. One in particular, Alamos Locomotions Bay Escapade, was still being shown as a three year old. He qualified for AMHA Worlds with his trainer, Portia Sue, early in the season and then we took him home for a couple of months to breed. She took him back for 8 weeks prior to Worlds and he went on to win Reserve Grand Champion in Performance Futurity and Top Ten in Gentlemens Country Pleasure Driving. Perhaps you could arrange something similar with your trainer?

Oh, and we do not breed mares until they are AT LEAST 3 years old.......

 

[LC Farm]

Nathan L you hit my thoughts right on the head. I liked hearing from everyone. I have only breed my mares to outside stallions with a great show record waiting for my little guy to mature. I've decided to see how he does in the show ring before he breeds. I hope I'm not sorry but if he can't compete in the ring I don't think I want him breeding even if he had awsome foals. I think a show record is real important for a stallion. Just my thoughts. I only breed a mare after three.

Thanks

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I'm not actually sure about the show record thing...I suppose it is handy to have a show record and it certainly gives you a sort of idea of what to expect but I have seen far too many show champions that I would let NOWHERE near any of my mares to use it as an absolute when picking a stallion.

I would rather use my own eyes and judgement.

When it comes down to it a stallion can be overall supreme champion of the universe but, if he cannot produce good foals he is nothing.

But a show record behind a good, quality stock producing stallion is always handy.

The proof of the pudding, as they say

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Just gone back and read some of the other replies...NL...my colts are always good, sound animals, so I do not produce rubbish or unwanted animals, they do not have to prove themselves in the show ring, although it is nice if they do.

I do show, until last year I showed extensively to top National level, I would have thought most people realised that by now??

I have shown Arabians to the same level.

I have NEVER, and I do mean never , had any trouble whatsoever with showing a stallion.

My colts show and breed, my stallions show and breed.

The day I breed a mare at a show is the day that my entires can get upset by the whole thing and think they should be breeding at a show!!!

For heaven sake it really is not that hard to teach a horse to behave himself and mind his manner...over here we have mixed classes, colts and fillies in together and you can bet a lot of those fillies will be in season!!

I have walked behind mares in full season on many occasion but my colts and stallions just knew better than to get excited about something that was just never going to happen, it is as simple as that...honestly!!!

I have travelled entires home on the trailer with mares that they had bred the day before and would breed again the next day and the only trouble I ever had came form the mares.

I love my boys, and I would never want to detract form their spirit or their dignity, but manners are the most important aspect of an entire.....I would almost put them on a par with conformation as if a stallion does not have manners I am not going to use him even if his conformation is correct.

It is not hard to teach manners, I prefer to start when they are babies, but I have also taught manners to five year olds, and had them word perfect, without resorting to brute force of any kind (Before people start jumping to conclusions of their own!!)

I grew up doing this and thinking it to be the norm, I was not aware that people thought stallions could not be ridden out with mares or shown and bred at the same time until I was much older.

Stallions are just horses that happen to have a bit more "equipment", other than remembering they are stallions, there really is nothing more to handling them than any other horse.

 

[Maple Hollow Farm]

I just thought I would add that we always start breeding at age 2 so that they can learn manners early and if they settle great if not at least they know what they are doing for next year. We have always hauled all horses together and I can tie my stallion with my mare when she is in heat and he has never tried to tease up to her. We trained ours so if they don't have a stud chain over their nose they don't get to tease or breed.

It has worked well but as for the show record for the stallions, that works to an extent unless you are in an area where shows are limited and when you go they place the same cowhocked and stringy looking horses first because they pose well or where the judges are judging people not horses (almost every show around here). The only shows that matter to me are the national and world level because those horses look like they deserve it, granted I have seen a couple that were questionable, but at least most of them are truly that good.

 

[icspots]

I'm not actually sure about the show record thing...I suppose it is handy to have a show record and it certainly gives you a sort of idea of what to expect but I have seen far too many show champions that I would let NOWHERE near any of my mares to use it as an absolute when picking a stallion.I would rather use my own eyes and judgement.

When it comes down to it a stallion can be overall supreme champion of the universe but, if he cannot produce good foals he is nothing.

But a show record behind a good, quality stock producing stallion is always handy.

The proof of the pudding, as they say

Well said, I have a little 4 year old that I showed as a yearling and two year old, he managed to go behind my back and settle a mare in his two year old year, kept THAT secret until the baby's DNA came back! I tried to hand breed him as a 3 year old, and nada, he is so well mannered that he will not drop while on a lead of any kind. He has to be pen bred. I just took him back to the show barn this fall, and I think I'll take him out as an aged next year. So a couple of things, obviously breeding mares does not mean they turn into screaming idiots when they are showing. AND I totally agree that just because the individual is a super winning show horse does not guarantee that the offspring will be the same, you have to rely on your own judgement as much as you would rely on the opinion of the judges they have shown for.