Backyard breeders

[Riverrose28]

Are any of you others as upset as I am about this? Backyard breeders taking sales away from us that do it all properly? They don't send in stallion reports, they don't register the foals, they don't bring papers up to date, yet they make sales! I often wonder if they even properly watch the mares during foaling, or have vet checks, shots, worming, farrier, or halter training. I'm tired of it. Those of us doing it all properly are having a hard time and these guys are still selling. Sorry Just venting! :arg!

 

[disneyhorse]

Yep, "backyard breeders" are the bane of any animal industry, from dog to cat to horse. There is such a spectrum of quality, as there is no standard to go by.

I'm not sure in all cases they are "taking away sales" as a buyer looking for a $500 pet with no papers might not really be looking for a $1200 registered gelding.

Heck, my first few horses (not mini) were grade horses, all very cheap. I probably wouldn't have transferred the papers anyway, had they had them.

Different markets.

Andrea

 

[Songcatcher]

I don't call that back yard breeders. I call that irresponsible and unethical.

They misrepresent their horses to newcomers who then come here wondering how to get their horses registered.

But, it's a free country. Nothing you can do about it except expose the fact and hope newcomers will learn before they buy. I certainly don't want the government getting involved and saying who can and who cannot breed animals.

 

[Equuisize]

I'm a backyard breeder, I just have a BIG backyard...but I can see my kids

from the backyard, the frontyard and the side yard and from my computer room

window.

I do everything humanely possibly for my mom and babies including registering.

I think Andrea hit the nail on the head.

You're not comparing apples to apples but those folks that start out with a

grade mini just might be your next customer as they grow and learn more about

the breed.

Probably if you were willing to sell your baby that you put all the care and love

into for the same price, they might be your customer now.

In our area you can buy, at least, a registered mini for bluelight special prices

should you choose to sell them that way. They may not be today's show quality mini but

they are registered, many of them.

 

[Riverrose28]

Maybe I should clarify, it's about being honest! If you sell a horse unregistered, tell the buyer. If you havn't kept up with the paper work tell the buyer. Seems like so many buyers are now trying to get papers straightened out from sellers that just don't seem to care, but are still making sales. As a breeder if you offer a horse for a low price the buyer says, whats wrong with them, if the price is too high they say that's too much. As a seller you need to work with a buyer, especially on price, but what is up with so many buying horses that don't have the papers done properly by the seller? Maybe I'm missing something here. It takes hours to keep up with paper work, not to mention money. I would never sell a registered horse with incomplete paper work.

 

[Carolyn R]

I absolutely agree. Small and/or selective breeding does not equal a backyard breeder. It is about the breeder, big or small, that does not offer vet care, pre or post foaling care, worming, vaccinations, dental floats, hoof care, proper paperwork on file, lets not forget about hoofcare. It is also about the people that just don't get it. they want to buy cheap cheap cheap, but don't understand what goes into the proper care and proper horse husbandry skills. Lets not forget about the general health of the horses, soundness, correct conformation, and responsable breeding. A lot of heart and soul, not to mention tears, go into really caring for and caring about ones own horses/breeding programs, profit is usually the last thing to come into play.

If someone is able to breed and breed, has a ton of horses, is selling them for lower than pet prices, and says bussiness is good and they are making a profit, they are either lying through their teeth or cutting major corners! Either way it should be a huge red flag for buyers.

One of the many reasons why I threw in the towel.

 

[Riverrose28]

I not only feel bad for us responsable breeders that need to meet expenses, I also feel bad for the new buyer. These people answer an ad and don't know what to expect only that the price is right. These new people may be the future of our industry, they should be mentored and educated, not taken for a scam. It really is a shame I can't wave a majic wand and educate them before they get taken, and need to spend more money getting paper work straightened out, when for a couple of hundred more they could have bought a horse from someone honest. These sellers not only make reputable breeders look bad they are taking the unsuspecting for a ride, what a shame.

I might add that the term back yard breeder is from my days breeding dogs, it refers to someone that wants to make a buck, but doesn't really care about animal welfare or improving the breed.

Actually I can see my guys from my back yard, but I'm not a backyard breeder.

 

[Wings]

What I'm over is getting on public forums and seeing people bagging out minis because of horrid teeth problems that have cost the owner a lot of money or have shocking conformation. Takes me a long time to explain that their minis are shocking because they paid $200 from someone who just stuck a bunch of horses in a paddock, let them breed and shipped the foals off to sell.

I'm over people enquiring over my foals and wanting to pay $300 for my show quality foals out of bloodlined show proven parents because "I can get them for that at the market"

I'm over cleaning up the messes left behind by uncaring breeders and sellers. Which I only do because the horse doesn't deserve to suffer. I hate being contacted for showing advice only to find out the horse is unreg, badly put together and doesn't have a chance of living up to the expectations of the new owner.

And the next time I say "she isn't a breeding prospect" and the response is "but she's coloured" I might have to throttle someone...

Thanks for the vent! I think I needed it

 

[Riverrose28]

What I'm over is getting on public forums and seeing people bagging out minis because of horrid teeth problems that have cost the owner a lot of money or have shocking conformation. Takes me a long time to explain that their minis are shocking because they paid $200 from someone who just stuck a bunch of horses in a paddock, let them breed and shipped the foals off to sell.

I'm over people enquiring over my foals and wanting to pay $300 for my show quality foals out of bloodlined show proven parents because "I can get them for that at the market"

I'm over cleaning up the messes left behind by uncaring breeders and sellers. Which I only do because the horse doesn't deserve to suffer. I hate being contacted for showing advice only to find out the horse is unreg, badly put together and doesn't have a chance of living up to the expectations of the new owner.

And the next time I say "she isn't a breeding prospect" and the response is "but she's coloured" I might have to throttle someone...

Thanks for the vent! I think I needed it

Amen! I have people e-mail me all the time asking for advice about horses they ahve bought from someone else, and can't get the seller to respond! Crazy!

 

[Hawks_Eye_Minis]

I think im one of the newbys your talking about..

I recently bought a lil colt buyer told me he was UTD on shots worming and hoof care... After we drove 4 hours to go see him obviously he wasnt UTD on hooves but no biggie hubbys a farrier... BUt she downright refused to give me any vaccienes ect.. I got his reg apps but had NO idea how to fill them out...STILL am confused on alot... Ive emailed the breeder peobably every other day for the past 2 weeks with NO reply....

Ofcouse why would she she sold me a sick mini he had strangles when i bought him she "garenteed" him to be healthy but now wont take my phone calls or emails.... Of course im peeved off about it...

Im JUST starting out in the minis have NO idea what im doing as far as showing the lady i got nemo from also said shed help me learn to show but now isnt answering ..

Im no longer able to ride thats why i got in to the minis .. They looked like fun especially showing them and driving them... And they HAVE ben fun but the paperwork and the headache thats come with trying to figure it out.. I wont lie untill i found this website i gave up trying to figure it out as far s registering my gelding...

Honestly id LIKE to show my colt ALOT and yes maybe in the future breed him BUT if i do all foals WILL have reg papers in hand when sold they will be up to date on everything i will NOT be like the beeder ive mentioned above i cant imagine how they thing there going to get a good rep when they do this sorta stuff...

BOTH ladies ( co owend stable) said they had reg papers all ready sent in but when i went and picked them up "oh its only apps" OK fine how do i fill them out and who do i send them too ect "well help you" then i never hear from them again....

i AM trying to learn the best i can im on here every day researching to find stuff i didnt know

 

[Bess Kelly]

WOW -- all so true. I try to talk to every person who did/does inquire about any of my animals to first get a feel for their own equine knowledge, their plans for this animal, their facilities, their price range, etc. Then they are educated about minis !! Papers, shows, breeding, good/bad/ugly things they need to consider. Then the facts about my animals, registry, care, feed, vetting, vaccines, whys/why nots, etc.

We all do the best we can!!

Lady came by a few yrs ago, did all above, she looked and picked out a couple prospects and left. A few days later she calls me. She had bought 3 for less than price of one of mine -- BUT, they were now sick!!

She wanted me to help her. I listened to all she described, advised how to immediately check for some things, and gave her the names of a couple VETS. As you might guess, she was concerned with the cost but, I assured her it would be a better value than hiring a backhoe to bury them.

Yes, she did not contact me again....BUT -- she got a DEAL on the buy!!

As breeders, keepers, sellers we can only do so much. I guess that seller didn't offer any follow up help....just a low price.

 

[Field-of-Dreams]

I try to explain to prospective buyers that not only do they get a registered horse that was well taken care of, they get US. If they have a problem, CALL US. Questions? We're here! We'll teach you to show and help you learn to drive.

We had one person want to buy a mini to drive, then bought one somewhere else. THEN wanted us to teach him to drive! Which we can't/won't do, as to accept payment would null our amateur status!

 

[Songcatcher]

Well, as they say, "hind sight is 20/20." You should have backed out as soon as you found out the seller was not providing what was promised. I'm sure you will know better in the future. Hopefully, someone will see this and know better before they buy.

I think im one of the newbys your talking about..

I recently bought a lil colt buyer told me he was UTD on shots worming and hoof care... After we drove 4 hours to go see him obviously he wasnt UTD on hooves but no biggie hubbys a farrier... BUt she downright refused to give me any vaccienes ect.. I got his reg apps but had NO idea how to fill them out...STILL am confused on alot... Ive emailed the breeder peobably every other day for the past 2 weeks with NO reply....

Ofcouse why would she she sold me a sick mini he had strangles when i bought him she "garenteed" him to be healthy but now wont take my phone calls or emails.... Of course im peeved off about it...

Im JUST starting out in the minis have NO idea what im doing as far as showing the lady i got my gelding from said shed HELP me get him in to showing and help me get him registerd but once again NO reply from her either...

Im no longer able to ride thats why i got in to the minis .. They looked like fun especially showing them and driving them... And they HAVE ben fun but the paperwork and the headache thats come with trying to figure it out.. I wont lie untill i found this website i gave up trying to figure it out as far s registering my gelding...

Honestly id LIKE to show my colt ALOT and yes maybe in the future breed him BUT if i do all foals WILL have reg papers in hand when sold they will be up to date on everything i will NOT be like the beeders ive mentioned above i cant imagine how they thing there going to get a good rep when they do this sorta stuff...

BOTH said they had reg papers all ready sent in but when i went and picked them up "oh its only apps" OK fine how do i fill them out and who do i send them too ect "well help you" then i never hear from them again....

i AM trying to learn the best i can im on here every day researching to find stuff i didnt know

 

[Lizzie]

At least now in dogs, there is a "Lemon Law'. This applies to those who breed and sell puppies from a given breed, without testing their breeding stock for the known genetic problems within that breed. If someone purchases a pup and later it is found to have (for example) hip displasia, and needing one or both hips replaced at enormous cost, the breeder can be sued and forced to pay for the medical fees. The Lemon Law was put into place several years ago now and has been proven effective in court.

There is an old saying which I like...

'The success of the BYB, rests solely with the ignorance of the public. Educate, educate, educate.'

This really applies to all animals. Sadly, most don't do their homework when purchasing an animal and find themselves faced with temperament and medical problems. Many uneducated, seem to think they will make their fortune, when breeding. Done correctly, usually means one is out a whole lot more money than one will ever make.

Lizzie

 

[mini horse mania]

I didnt care about papers personally for myself until recently- I do have a few grade mares that I cant part with. I have had them for years and just as pets. You can barely give away a grade horse the way feed and hay has went up. I have seen grade minis for $50 at the sales. Some care about pedigrees and such, but some just want pets. Buyers that want a reg. horse to show will not buy a grade horse, and they should expect to pay more for a pedigreed horse.

Here is my pet peeve-

I know of a breeder out of state who has 100 reg mini mares- they are bred back to back every year with no break, and the foals are STILL WET when they are posted for sale with a huge price tag. When the mares get to old to produce, they are sold for premium price as pets. You can obviouly tell it is only for the money. IMO -I consider that a "mini mill" just like the puppy mills. You cannot guarantee UC Davis tested,black homozygous, tobiano homozygous and DNA tested on a 2 hour old foal-Im sorry.... The breeder does sell out fast. there was one colt that was 4 hours old-he was advertised for $700- and 2 days later, after my sister inquired-the price jumped to $1800- I just think that is wrong...the minis are half crazy, and are just there to make babies...

 

[Hawks_Eye_Minis]

I know i shoulda backed out when i noticed that but she said shed send me all his paperwork in the mail when i got everything all that was in it was the reg papers partly filled out...

Let me get somehting out there i wasnt even planing to register my mini gelding untill i bought my stud since i was so confused about what to do plus hes never going anywhere hes my forever horse so why would i need papers? Plus he was gave to me with locking stifles so he was "pet" quality but now years later with physical therapy and a vet to help along the way hes almost 100% normal most days...

The thing that makes me so sour is Nemos breeder shes the oen that completly took advantage of me as far as knowing other then hawk i litterally had NO knowledge of miniature horses

I DID ask for help getting in to showing ect and i did ask for help with the papers but other then on here no ones ben able to help me...

If it was any other breed id be able to figure it out but with all the size limits ect it just gets over my head.. and i cant figure it out...

 

[Riverrose28]

I know i shoulda backed out when i noticed that but she said shed send me all his paperwork in the mail when i got everything all that was in it was the reg papers partly filled out...

Let me get somehting out there i wasnt even planing to register my mini gelding untill i bought my stud since i was so confused about what to do plus hes never going anywhere hes my forever horse so why would i need papers? Plus he was gave to me with locking stifles so he was "pet" quality but now years later with physical therapy and a vet to help along the way hes almost 100% normal most days...

The thing that makes me so sour is Nemos breeder shes the oen that completly took advantage of me as far as knowing other then hawk i litterally had NO knowledge of miniature horses

I DID ask for help getting in to showing ect and i did ask for help with the papers but other then on here no ones ben able to help me...

If it was any other breed id be able to figure it out but with all the size limits ect it just gets over my head.. and i cant figure it out...

Bless your heart, this is what I'm talking about! You are a new person looking to get into minis and this person isn't helping you at all. All they have done is take your money and run. Such a shame.

 

[Songcatcher]

You cannot guarantee UC Davis tested,black homozygous, tobiano homozygous and DNA tested on a 2 hour old foal-Im sorry.... The breeder does sell out fast.

Well, it IS POSSIBLE to guarrantee a foal will test homozygous IF both parents are homozygous.

I hope you mean that as a figure of speach about selling out fast. I cannot imagine anyone producing 100 foals a year and selling out fast for the prices you are talking about.

 

[maestoso]

As long as backyard breeders are selling horses for cheaper than you are, they will always have a market. Let's face it, likely more than half of mini horse owners are "backyard buyers" meaning, papers mean nothing to them, nor does quality, they just want a family pet. So the $400 horse they get from the backyard breeder serves the purpose just as well as your $1000 foal.

The term backyard breeder, to me, is as ridiculous as using the term "gay" synonymous with stupid. You are all backyard breeders. You breed horses in your back yard, on your farm behind your house, whatever. Weather you breed 1 foal or 30 makes no difference. It is too general a term and there are plenty of familys who breed in they're backyards and only breed "pet" quality that are just as knowledgeable as anyone here. They take great care of their horses and do things the "right" way.

There's a billion arguments to be made about a flooded market and the only horse worth breeding is one of conformational quality. While I may agree with this, none of us can control what anyone else is doing. And what I find most annoying, are the people who cry "flooded market" but want everyone else to be the solution, instead of curtailing breeding in their own backyard.

If you want to sell your horses and are upset that breeders you consider to be inferior to you, then you need to match what they can offer their market. In most cases, that will mean reduce pricing. Not worth breeding a $500 horse? Than I'd suggest not breeding period. It's great that you keep up with your papers and have foaling cameras and mare stare and stay up to date on vaccines and sell and breed "responsibly" but the fact is, many many buyers don't care about any of that, so the end result is that it makes no difference.

Doing things the right way, not just in horses but in life, always takes more time, money and education. This will never change despite how much we'd like to complain about it. I hear what you're saying, but at the end of the day it's all about stupid people. Stupid buyers, stupid breeders. Once in a while we can educate a stupid and then we can celebrate small victories. But theres always more stupids coming out of the woodwork.

 

[Relic]

Matt Drown...that was a very good post...