Begging For Forgiveness

[LaVern]

Forgive me AMHR for I think I have sinned.

Now if the Registry could stop using measurement and use blood to determine if my horses were miniatures then maybe I could be absolved.

If we use the size of horses that are winning at the National Level in the Over Division, as our epitome of what is the best, then we are bound to get more and more horses that will get too tall. What do we do with them? I get them when I use many generations of smaller horses.

I feel that must have a Brood stock division. Two registered parents mated = a registered offspring. Not for showing of course, but please don’t make me throw Lizzy’s papers away once I get my Wicket.

I don't feel that anyone has the right to pull papers on a horse that has a legitimate birth certificate. If the horse measures too tall at a show, so what. Say, thanks alot and go home with your registered miniature horse.

 

[JourneysEnd]

At some point we are going to have to decide if the miniature horse is a breed or a height.

 

[Leeana]

Arent the horses in the show ring supose to represent the breed as a whole? If that rule was implied and it was 38" only for showing animals and the rest of the horses that are standing at home out in the pasure that we know will not make it under a wicket stick (or any stick).

But...on the flip side...

I completely agree with you, but like i said above i feel the horses in the show ring should represent the breed as a whole and height included. So making just a cutt off in height for the showing animals is not representing the whole breed.

I think we have gotten ourselves into a sticky situation that is going to take allot of solving.

 

[littlearab]

Here is my 2cents worth(if any one cares)

Frist off if AMHR miniature horses were a SIZE breed only then any horse under said inches is a AMHR miniature.

But AMHR is a miniture horse is blood breed. WCMHR is not.. Nore is AMHA. If the horse is over 38 sorry she's not AMHR, but she could be (God forbid) WCMHR registered as a SHOW PONY.

Every breed registry has it rules... if the book say must be 38" or under at age 3, it must be.

Sorry but I think you have an unregistered pony named Lizzy. She not even a miniature.

Makes no matter who her sire is or dam is or who you are.

I'm sorry but being what happened to me, with AMHR I have no pitty.. Try having all your horses taken way because you were lied to and hung up to dry becuase AMHR wanted to make an exsample of someone.

They can not see I had nothing to do with paperwork on a mare I purchuse bred. I followed every rule. I'm a stickler for rules.

AMHR does not forgive even honest mistakes..

 

[Leeana]

Here is my 2cents worth(if any one cares)Frist off if AMHR miniature horses were a SIZE breed only then any horse under said inches is a AMHR miniature.

But AMHR is a miniture horse is blood breed. WCMHR is not.. Nore is AMHA. If the horse is over 38 sorry she's not AMHR, but she could be (God forbid) WCMHR registered as a SHOW PONY.

Every breed registry has it rules... if the book say must be 38" or under at age 3, it must be.

Sorry but I think you have an unregistered pony named Lizzy. She not even a miniature.

Makes no matter who her sire is or dam is or who you are.

I'm sorry but being what happened to me, with AMHR I have no pitty.. Try having all your horses taken way because you were lied to and hung up to dry becuase AMHR wanted to make an exsample of someone.

They can not see I had nothing to do with paperwork on a mare I purchuse bred. I followed every rule. I'm a stickler for rules.

AMHR does not forgive even honest mistakes..

Im not sure what exactly happened...but that sounds more like a personal situation ....

 

[Reijel's Mom]

I'm sorry but being what happened to me, with AMHR I have no pitty.. Try having all your horses taken way because you were lied to and hung up to dry becuase AMHR wanted to make an exsample of someone.

Huh? Taken away? Does the registry have the power to take away horses??

Confused.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

No, of course it does not.

Neither, were you to consult a Lawyer, does it have the right to take away registration papers because of a measuring.....

Either a breed is a breed...which means that if a horse has two registered parents it is eligible for registration, or it is a height registration, which ALL the Mini horse Societies are at present...in which case it's registration stands, no matter how big it gets.

The AMHA papers state they are null if the horse goes over 34" at any time.

If the AMHR is a breed then height can only be an issue for show purposes.

Can't have it both ways!

 

[Reble]

No, of course it does not.Neither, were you to consult a Lawyer, does it have the right to take away registration papers because of a measuring.....

Either a breed is a breed...which means that if a horse has two registered parents it is eligible for registration, or it is a height registration, which ALL the Mini horse Societies are at present...in which case it's registration stands, no matter how big it gets.

The AMHA papers state they are null if the horse goes over 34" at any time.

If the AMHR is a breed then height can only be an issue for show purposes.

Can't have it both ways!

I agree,

Just have a question, I have always wondered about.

If you have a horse registered with AMHA OR AMHR pemanent papers says 34"

Why oh why do people put their horse in jumping or racing in B side and say oh I just let the horse hooves grow to enter?

Should they not be responsible for the size the paper work says? Just wondering?

Hope you understand what I am trying to say?

Do you think this is OK?

 

[littlearab]

Sorry Leeana,

Nothing personal about it. This is what Happened... 3 years ago a purchused a bred mare. The next spring sent in paperwork ( back stallion report, mare papers, foal appication ect) all signed by the SELLER not me. With info from the SELLER not me.

6 months later that fall AMHR had ??s about the foals papers , papers they already OKed.I had already sold the foal.

Being there would have to 5 horses DNAed and the cost to AMHR the gal who purchused the foal as a pet only and I decided to SAVE AMHR the money and just give the papers back.

So 3 months later I get a letter from AMHR saying suspended for 5 years.. For what???? saving them $100s or giving papers back??? Maybe it was becuase I said I was SORRY..?? I guess if you say your sorry and tell them you will pay any fines what ever that means they can HUNG you right..

I had explained the whole thing in the letter along with the papers to AMHR. Make many phone calls to the office and to higher ups in AMHR, long before the hearing took place, they knew the whole story. It did not matter, I had sent in paperwork they had ?s about.. As far I know the info was right. We never did DNAed anything.. at this point it does not matter. They will not look into the whole thing agian, no matter what I do.

So they hung me for what ?? You tell me!

No it's not personal... it involes many others also.

Due to this there are lots of people out there with garde miniature horses because they can not transpher them into thier name....

How many of you send in those papers for tranpher the next day?? How many of us wait until the horse turns 3?? Or foals?? Or have that colt gelded frist?

Personal no I do not think so....

Be careful it could happen to you, to anyone. Have you ever purchuseed a bred mare and sent in the paperwork given to you by the seller??? I you ever made a mistake on color markings, eye color di those blue eyes turn brown or gold?

You measurment just little off??

Who would think that a honest mistake would not forgiven( the only mistake I made was being nice)... that being you did purchused the mare bred would matter... that when someone say I'm sorry for any problems.. and asking what can I do to make it up... and that being member of AMHR and thinking of thier bottom line would cost you sp much??

No they can not take your horses any ,but they do not allow you to sell your horses with thier rightfull AMHR papers.. no horse with my farm name or that arei nmy name now can be traspher to any one else. In other words they are now grade. They can take away your good name.

Sorry i had to edit poor speeling when I get worked upLOL

 

[LaVern]

I couldn't stand it. Went out to pasture and put my old rickety stick on Lizzy. I haven't dared measure her since she went perm. way back when. And then, you have to remember they didn't have to be a full three years old to go perm.

Anyway, I think she is going to be okay. Haven't done her hoofs since March and her head was down eating and got her at 38 1/2. Of course that was just on the ground. So not a real good measurement. Guess I will have to have a measure Lizzy party.

Was wondering if anyone has turned in over 38 inch papers? Guess I don't know of anyone that has.

 

[JourneysEnd]

No, of course it does not.Neither, were you to consult a Lawyer, does it have the right to take away registration papers because of a measuring.....

Either a breed is a breed...which means that if a horse has two registered parents it is eligible for registration, or it is a height registration, which ALL the Mini horse Societies are at present...in which case it's registration stands, no matter how big it gets.

The AMHA papers state they are null if the horse goes over 34" at any time.

If the AMHR is a breed then height can only be an issue for show purposes.

Can't have it both ways!

That's correct.

At convention last year (AMHR) they were clear to say it is a height registry. That's why a Shetland can be double registered as long as it fits the height requirement. Yet there is no hardshipping. I think we need to decide one way or the other. Breed or height. I would really like to see the American Miniature Horse become a registered breed.

In the dog world, you breed 2 registered dogs together and the puppies all have papers. In my breed (Shetland Sheepdog) any dog over 16" could not show but still could breed and keep their papers. Still hasn't made that breed any larger.

 

[bingo]

Here is my 2cents worth(if any one cares)Frist off if AMHR miniature horses were a SIZE breed only then any horse under said inches is a AMHR miniature.

But AMHR is a miniture horse is blood breed. WCMHR is not.. Nore is AMHA. If the horse is over 38 sorry she's not AMHR, but she could be (God forbid) WCMHR registered as a SHOW PONY.

Every breed registry has it rules... if the book say must be 38" or under at age 3, it must be.

Sorry but I think you have an unregistered pony named Lizzy. She not even a miniature.

Makes no matter who her sire is or dam is or who you are.

I'm sorry but being what happened to me, with AMHR I have no pitty.. Try having all your horses taken way because you were lied to and hung up to dry becuase AMHR wanted to make an exsample of someone.

They can not see I had nothing to do with paperwork on a mare I purchuse bred. I followed every rule. I'm a stickler for rules.

AMHR does not forgive even honest mistakes..

Suspensions are never done lightly and are not done willy nilly that much I do know.

In the many many years I have been a AMHR member I have seen very few names published as suspended and even less published as suspended until further notice. In fact I can count them on one hand.

 

[Walbon Acres]

Whether you are talking a height registry or breed registry I don't think it matters. I had a Lazy N's Boogerman daughter. She was registered both AMHA and AMHR. At 3 she measured 34" at 5 she measured 35 1/2". So I sent in her AMHA papers and had the papers voided. She is STILL registered AMHR and she is STILL a Miniature horse and she is STILL a Boogerman daughter!!!! Her pedigree does not change and she is STILL a Miniature Horse even if she is 35 1/2" tall. Just because she no longer has AMHA papers does not change the fact that she is Still a Miniature Horse!

 

[Sue_C.]

Was wondering if anyone has turned in over 38 inch papers? Guess I don't know of anyone that has.

Well, I did send AMHA papers back for a horse that went over 34 inches.

 

[Minimor]

Well, I do know that more and more people seem to be telling me that if ever I have a horse that goes over DON'T TURN IN THE PAPERS. Several have told me they've turned in papers in the past (or just not bothered to make the horse permanent after it went oversize) but they wouldn't do it now if they had it to do over.

"Don't worry about one getting too tall! Take it to Nationals, it will fit right in"

"Oversize? That one would look small at Nationals!"

"The big guys are doing it, so why should I turn in papers on my horse that's just a little bit over"

Those are the sorts of things I've been hearing from people--not just one person, but people. People all over the place.

 

[littlearab]

Suspensions are never done lightly and are not done willy nilly that much I do know.

In the many many years I have been a AMHR member I have seen very few names published as suspended and even less published as suspended until further notice. In fact I can count them on one hand.

I thought that too.. really I did.

That AMHR really thinks about what they do people lives. But from talking to others who either have been suspensioned or accussed I'm not so sure. I do not think they really looked into the whole case here .

Was told by more then one person my suspension was done due to a court case that AMHR is in about another suspension. When it was pointed out that there had not been a suspension for sometime. BANG there was mine another case suspension. And another person accussed,the other person had 100s of letters sent in because she knew what it was about. She had a heads up knew what she was accussed of and had witnesses to back her up.

I did not have any as I did not even know what to ask others to write in my defence?? They did not even tell me how it all came about until after the suspension.I do not know what I was accussed of or by whom until after the hearing.Was that right or fair? How can you send evdince to defend your self if you do not know what they think you did?? If had know I couold of had others she had offered the horses to with the same sorty write in. Others who had knew me and know I had no reason to do what they say I did. Yes, I sent in a back stallion report and appications with info given to be by the seller , sighed by the owner of the bred mare at the time it was bred ,, the seller. Just like everyone else who by a bred mare and registers the foal, if none were sent in before hand. I did know the numbers or names or any of the stallion she owned.She never called them by thier registered names so how could I??

AMHR sends you a letter saying concact us ASAP and when you call they say call back in 3 weeks, so and so is on vacation??

I called someone high up and he says just send the papers back. I ask others they all say the same thing.

I got a hold of the person who purchused the filly from me and being the filly was only a pet and the person I got the bred mare from at the time said she selling all her miniatures, and I had no idea where the other horses were. WE (being the gal with the filly and I) decided to just send papers back. Thinking we are being nice and saving AMHR money and problems looking for horses to DNA.

I at the time had no idea that the person who sold me the mare must have a mentle illness and she was lieing to AMHR about the whole deal. And do not say that lightly, I truly belive the lady is sick. When I contacted her she say sorry. UGH She heard I sold the filly for lots of money and felt cheated.

You know maybe it is all my fault I belived that If you tell the truth and do the right thing it all turns out.

But AMHR is a fault here too. They should not send out letters saying contact us and then say call back in 3 weeks. NEVER TELL YOU ANY THING . And when you do get ahold of them AFTER the papers are already back and are told no big deal. Then they expect you to go 1000s of miles for a hearing.. Could you leave you job and family for a hearing 1000s of miles away?? After you were told by the office it's no big deal it will be OK?? When you do not know who or what the issue is about?? When you did nothing wrong and have nothing to defend.

All I can say is if you ever get a letter from AMHR about any ?s on anything get your legals up. And fight like heck. You can not assume they will do the right thing. Anyone can make a mistake,, even AMHR.. Just wish they would ammit when they do.

And yes they do have the right to take papers on a over height horse. It's up to them who they allow to use thier papers.

Maybe they should send someone out to measure every AMHR horse and give a suspension to everyone who has one and registered foal out of them.

Sorry this is my last word on all this. I'm sick at heart and mind..

Bingo go ahead and assume AMHR can do no wrong. AMHR has like I said taken my good name.. just hope they never do anything like this to anyone again.

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

The breed association is a private organization and has the right to do whatever it wants. YOUR rights are to be a member and use their papers or not.

Also remember that these breeds are HEIGHT breeds, not pedigree breeds... pedigree is required but the almighty requirement is height.

 

[LaVern]

Oh My Goodness, I was just worried about measuring Lizzie with my new wicket.

But, Nathan I think that you are probably right. That private organization being another breed. Oh, maybe if we beg enough and keep sending in our money. Or, maybe we should not send in our money. That right we do have.

 

[crponies]

Playing devil's advocate here, maybe it is time people vote with their feet on all these majors issues. I am not a member of AMHA or AMHR nor have I ever been. It seems like there are some major issues that the majority of the people on these forum would like addressed and neither registry is willing to do so in a satisfactory way. Maybe it is time to start a true pedigree based miniature horse registry if that is what you really want. Of course, you will have to decide what those pedigree requirements are to begin with but once you have those initial horses registered do not let any outside horses in. Starting from scratch you can set the guidelines on measurements too such as measuring at the withers. I know that most of the time when people have tried starting registries it has not worked out but if you really cannot get the current ones to work with you...

 

[Sandee]

Those of you that have a 34" that you measured over 34" should certainly take it to a show and have a steward measure. I bought a gelding a few years back that had permanent papers in both organizations as UNDER 34". I could not get him to measure under and even had a member of our mini club measure him and agree he was over. I didn't turn his papers in as he had progeny on record so I just retired him and used him for parades and my grandkids.

This year my daughter wanted to show and did not have any experience. So we trotted the old boy out for driving and obstacle. She worked with him and then at the first show she took him to the steward for measuring. He was so relaxed with her and perhaps had the "old lightbulb" go on about showing that he came in at exactly 34" with the steward.