Biggest question asked and talked about at amhr natls

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What really bothers me about this is that these people are NOT showing a miniature horse if the horse is 39'' ...40'' ...38.5'' ...and on, that is not a miniature. Miniatures are a height breed, these horses are over height and therefore do not fit the breed. They should not even be placing in the classes if this was followed since they are NOT a miniature horse. JMO
 
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Good Morning,

I would like to make a comment on calling the office. Kaykay, calling the office isn't going to solve anything. Those ladies there are just the office workers. Most of them are new and don't know a thing about what is going on at Nationals. The young lady that took your call did just exactly what she was suppose to do. Take your message and sent you an evaluation form.

I will repeat this again. The head of the Stewards committee is Jeanne Bragagnini (home phone 269-979-3392 or snail mail: 8765 M66, East Leroy, MI 49051-9752). You can call or write to her AFTER this weekend as she is still at Nationals taking care of business.

I have talked with her and I did ask her if "Lavern" aka Rene was at the show. She was and she did come by the measuring to watch. No, she didn't hand out money for protest and apparently had her horses there to be shown.

Like Jill said, this threat comes up year after year after year, and only after Nationals. Face it folks, the Shetland/Miniature crosses are here to stay and were infused back in the late nineties and early 2000. You just didn't recognize them as such for most of you don't go to Congress which is the first National show of the season to see some of those same ponies shown at the AMHR Nationals. For the person that said that they need to show in their respective show ie Congress, please read your rulebook. We cannot cross over at a show and show the double registrered Shetland/Mini at a show, they must pick which side they want to show before they enter that show. If that horse measures in at 38", is inspected by a Judge and Steward to get their hardship papers they can show as a "Miniature Horse". If that horse qualifies under the rules of the AMHR (showing under four judges) then that animal has the right to show at the AMHR National Show. A miniature horse is just that....a Miniature Horse...just like a poodle can be a Standard (very large poodle), miniature, toy or teacup...they are bred down from the "Standard" dog but they are still "Poodles".

Let me see...The McCarthy's, The Taylors, The McKeiths, Ms Nicolls, the Laramores, the Connection, E-Training, all those at the AMHR Nationals (go look at www.horseshowsonline.com) and you'll see most of those horses they had were ASPC/AMHR crosses that won. Some of those very same horses are Seth Thomas horses (for those of you that don't know what a Seth Thomas horse is...a full blood Shetland) bred down to miniature size. My father owned one and no one could walk up to that horse and tell me he was a Shetland. He was a 33" miniature and was told as such but that still didn't dismiss the fact he was a full blood Shetland...just a "Miniature Horse".

Yes, some of those weanlings and yearlings who are currently double registered will "outgrow" their AMHR papers for the show ring at that time (again read your rulebook regarding the height catagories for the "B" division) you may not see those horses out there the next year due to a growth spurt, but you will again after that. We all know Miniatures do continue to grow even after their 3 year old year. That's why the "B" division was created years ago.

Heather the pony that beat you in class #203 was infact a double registered Mini/Shetland. That pony did qualify to show at that show and she must have been measured correctly or she wouldn't have been able to show. Joel White is a very good AMHA trainer that knows his stuff and this was after all an "OPEN" class (Yes trainers can go into an open class). That pony was breed by our past Exective secretary who owns Pony-Vista Farm. His family has been around the ASPC/AMHR a very long time and not only does his family produce some very nice Miniature/Shetlands he has some kick butt Shetlands that win most of their classes at Congress.

Again, if you are so unhappy with the measuring then speak up at that time. I did ask Jeanne if ANYONE came to her in private to ask about any of the measuring. She said NO. Griping and complaining here will not change a thing (like Jill said). I would suggest those of you that want a change in the way the measuring is done, get your Stewards card and go by proper channels to get things done.

Jane, please join AMHR, get your Stewards card, you just might get some pretty nice Stewarding jobs there in NZ or even Canada, who knows you might even get asked to do the AMHR Nationals someday.

By the way...even at the Congress we get some of the same stuff that you are mentioning here with ponies that "look" over for their height divisions that were competing and won. I stood and watch a lot of the measuring at Congress this year and Ms. Bragagnini and Mr. Lindahl were both very proficent and professional in their jobs. They do care about our rulebook and do listen to anyone who comes to them with a problem.

Please take the time to write your concerns to Jeanne and offer some solutions that you think might work that would be agreeable to all.

Karen Shaw
 
hi karen

thanks for posting! i will call Jeanne and talk to her if that is the best route to go. And yes I will give her time to recover from Nationals first as I know everyone there is exhausted. I just didnt know! If the office staff cannot take calls regardign measuring though why dont they refer people to Jeanne??

I think there are two differnet things being debated here. The shetland crosses have nothing to do with what i posted. I have said again and again i breed the shetland crosses and absolutely love them
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I was showing a shetland cross! That is a whole nother subject and not one i wanted started here. If someone has a problem with that then start a new post on that subject
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All I am referring to is measuring.

Since i posted this i have gotten 3 phone calls and tons of emails. These people totally agree that there were horses there way over the height limit but they are too afraid to even post on this post.

I still think its a good idea for everyone to also contact their directors and tell them how they feel.
 
I thought ASPC etc was affiliated with one of the major outfits? AHSA?

I would say if they are everyone that is unhappy with measuring should write a letter and send it to ?AHSA?

USEF? and also to all the directors. Truth is the directors are who has to fix the problems and they won't do it unless they hear from all of you so get writing and save a copy for yourselves.
 
Good morning, Karen. I do have to differ respectively. Like I have mentioned. My horse measured 34" to the tee. Was in a 32" to 34" class. Do I think he would have won if there was not any cheating of heights? No! He is a quite handsome Buckeroo grandson. Nice head/neck set but there was a lot of nice horses in his class that would have taken the winnings with out there being a measuring dilema. Very nice refined horses. I do not have bad feeling that he did not place! I have bad feelings that the measuring was so crooked and biased period. If you walked your horse past another knowing what your horse measures and you see a difference of at least two inches it's not hard to figure out. It was not in every class!!

As for the AMHR/ASPC horses, I absolutely love them and respect them. I have one in my barn! No quams there either! I am co-owner of a Seth Thomas horse who truely measures 36". Have nothing to gripe about the farms you mention! Just because there were ASPC/AMHR horses there does not mean every one of them were over. Our stallions' foals placed. But guess what? They got measured accurately.

The whole point is people are afraid of protesting. Plain and simple. Was told this time and time again. Strangers in the audience even talked to Kay and I about this. "Do not protest it will hurt you." "Do not protest you will be black balled." Do not protest you'll find your horse dead in it's stall the next day." We heard this over and over. By people we didn't know and by people we know and trust. As I told Amber yesterday. I will not give names of people who tell me things in confidence. We have brought this to their attention, now let's see how far it goes. But unless enough people complain it will just be dropped.

So tell me this. If I protest next year do I have to have a body guard for my horse? If I go in as horses are measured and take pictures will I need a body guard for myself and my horse? If this goes on and does not get addressed....... I don't know. Why pay the big bucks to go and show if it's not on the up and up? If I loose I loose, but let it be on the up and up.

I can understand why Laverne did not protest if she heard the bone chilling things we did. It seems fear is a powerful tool for some. Just a shame it has to be this way when we all pay dues to be a member.

Fran

And to you all who spend A LOT of money showing please help us change this! Power comes in numbers.
 
This is type of thread IS an annual event. Having both AMHR and AMHA horses, split hairs if you want, but this is an issue time and again following either the Nationals or the Worlds.

Additionally, I am sorry, but I'd feel just about DUMB calling my regional director and saying "Kaykay of Lil Beginnings message board said the measuring was not fair at the Nationals." I was not there, I did not see a problem, and I am thrilled how my horse did and proud of how my friends' horses did.

While I understand there have been some sickening threats thrown around, still, the place to voice an official complaint in my opinion was Tulsa, Oklahoma.
 
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jill

I dont know how much more specific i can be. i said FOR PEOPLE WHO WERE THERE AND AGREE THAT HORSES WERE OVER to call. Obviously you were not there and did not see what went on. So no I do not think you should call.

If you refer back to laverns post before nationals i was one of the naive ones that said i had never heard of a problem with measuring at amhr nationals. But i would go with open eyes and see for myself. And thats what i did
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I am also thrilled with how my horses did. and i LOVE this registry. That is why i am so passionate about it. I want to see it get better and better.
 
Jill, if you were not there and did not see it, by all means, do not call. That is not what is being asked here. If people saw it, which they did, those are the ones we are urging to call.

I mentioned protesting and was told the same things we have been talking about. This was both of ours first national show experience. You can not protest unless you have a horse entered in that particular class. You can not be sure how you would have handled it unless it was your horse involved and you were there. Plain and simple. We were down there alone. Told of threats and issues that have happened before. How can a person protest if there is a great fear of the repurcussions? Can one person stand guard over a horse 24/7 for the time you are down there? NO!

Fran

You have made your feeling known several times. I respect that. Please respect us for what we were told and saw for ourselves.
 
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Kaykay, you are not the only one I am talking to on this thread and the message I gathered (and I don't care to read this entire 5+ page thread) is to call regional directors or AMHR...

Apparently, I just do not see eye to eye with most of those who are posting on this thread. I can honestly say, if I were there and I saw a problem that bothered me and I heard so many other people voicing concern about the same problem, I'd have done what I could to get a group together THERE to say something.

To me, threads like this are almost laughable because something could have actually been done and wasn't but so many can get on here and moan about how unfair it was.

Anyone who's been here "awhile" knows I love this "place". I love Lil Beginnings SO MUCH, but I do feel like it's a joke to post on a message board vs. having done something in person.
 
Hi,

I was not at Nationals nor at Worlds last year and won't be at Worlds this year. Like Jill mentioned, we cry and yell about the height issue after the "big" year end shows of the respective organizations. I think noone said much about Nationals last year, but there was a HUGE outcry last year after Worlds and I spoke privately with SEVERAL people who were there, enough to get a real taste of what happened/who/what and where. It's really the extreme actions of a FEW, in the end, causing this issue.

I have no problem competing against a Trakehner if they have one that is under 34" (or 38" if I"m in the Over division), but he darn well better not be 36" in the 34" classes nor 40" in the 38" classes. I have not been in the ring with a horse I considered over enough to protest, and so I have not. I HAVE, however, seen those that are well over, and I don't understand it entirely, but I certainly get an idea of those that promote them as what they are not (under a certain height). It's misleading and dishonest and to get so wound up about it that you say you would harm someone's horse or them if they asked for the rules to be enforced (i.e. protest) is just plain and simple outrageous. Anyone caught doing so should be barred from the registry in every form (training, breeding, selling, showing, even through an "agent!"). Anyone caught ridiculously pushing the height issue repetitively should be put on a probation/limit somehow, but I don't know how to enforce all of this when it is so blatant by these few that decide they can manipulate the rules and treat anyone however they want.

I do urge anyone that witnessed something they find wrong to please make your feelings known. I would if I had been there. Unfortunately, I've been around people that like to "play dirty" and do horrible things so I guess I might have to be very careful, but then again, they might not know what they've gone and done if they messed w/me (threatened my horses or myself/family).

What gets me is that these people don't realize there is a lot of people out here that notice this terrible behavior (not talking about backbiting, etc.) and take note and guess what? If I look for a trainer....THEY won't be on my list! My list is quite small but I feel very comfortable with the ones on it! I want someone who will show my horse on my behalf in a gracious manner according to the rules of my registry. Then again, I don't feel I would ever want to try and "win it all" with a horse that was not within the bounds of the outlines of our bylaws. There is NO Shetland vs. Miniature issue, it is a height issue and a breaking of the rules/threatening of other members/horses that is at issue to me. A blatant disregard for a fairly clear rule.

Liz M.
 
Jill, you can't get the group together if the group is afraid to be involved. They have to be willing. People thought they would either be black balled at shows, have their horses hurt etc etc... It just went on and on. I wish you would have been there with us!

Fran
 
Okay I have been reading this for several days and against my better judgement am going to give my take on it. The measuring problem has existed for many years and we all know it. But until there are rule changes and something along the line of bonding stewarts so there is recourse not much is going to happen on this front.

We and I include all AMHA and AMHR members (of which we are both)are the only registries that measures to some mythical point where the mane hairs stop. Cheater hairs, sway back horses when you touch them with the stick and variation from one measurement to another are all part of the common place occurences we all see in the show ring every year.

What can be done? Well it is pretty simple really, complain to the registry of choice ( both if possible), institute new rules on measurement, measuring to the top of the withers or the vertebrae at the base of the withers and bond the measuring ring stewarts where they have something other than reputation at stake. Pass a rule also that says that if a horse shows in a taller class they cannot ever show in a smaller class, making it imperative to the owner to get the measurement right in the first place.

Then enforce the rules and if they are not enforced allow anyone that is a member to protest the measurement and/or viability of any height decision.

I know there is real concern over another lawsuit like AMHA had regarding this issue in part, but if you are that worried, buy more insurance and make sure the rules are followed this time around.

Finally In my opinion if all elese fails you have two options:

1. If all the above is not implemented due to the good old boy system and/or politics, then band together and start a new registry with the proper and fair guide lines in place from the beginning. :no:

2. Play the game as it is currently set up and decide to quit complaining about it. In other words beat them at the game as best you can.

As a small farm with a farm manager that fits and shows our own horses and is not a "Recognized Trainer" we fight the politics of the show ring at every show, it gets frustrating sometimes. But there are politics in any horse or animal exhibition. If you don't believe it ask someone from AKC or AQHA. So we have made up our minds to show our horses to the best of our ability and not let this other stuff detract from our enjoyment of these great little horses. Our grandchildren love it and we love it so everything is good as they say.

My two cents worth,
 
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Although I was an AMHR member for many years, I am not, this year-as I am no longer showing, breeding, registering horses(and all but two of mine here are A and R registered, one is a R-only, B in size.) I am a longtime Lifetime member of A. I no longer pay for either magazine(have seen all of the slick ads I EVER wish to see...) though I have YEARS of them, complete.

This being the case, I have no status in R to protest this 'officially'. I am saddened, but not at ALL surprised, to have verification, though the observations of Kay, Fran, and others, that the SAME THING is happening over in R as is, and has been for several years, going on in A-my gut feeling was that this was so-and I have to wonder if it hasn't 'moved' somewhat more over to R because new rules have made it a 'bit' harder in A to do *some* of the things that had once been done to cheat on a horse's height? (AMHA has had a 'no-touching once set up properly' rule in place for several years now, and although I believe it has helped in some ways, it certainly has not eliminated all of the problems!)

It is absolutely UNCONSCIENABLE that anyone should be caused to fear protesting! We have the example of last year's occurance at A World, though, as an example of how badly some people can and will behave-and this, openly---I hate to try to imagine what some *might* do in secret.

There certainly are no simple answers, in either registry. I do agree with the power of the many, and in making serious contact, IN WRITING-and yes, keep a copy!-with your Directors, Officers, and other Officials, to protest these practices--AND, keep doing so! (Direct-knowledge-based is of course best; but I personally believe it is also acceptable to speak from strong personal conviction.) Go to shows with close observation of adherance to their Rulebook in mind--and document, whenever possible. Press for changes, such as a change to top-of-the-wither measurement(to be 'in step with' the entire remainder of the equine world, for Pete's sake!)INSIST-politely, but relentlessly...! It is very true that talking about it here won't change ANYTHING-but I strongly feel that this, as the most widely-particiated-in Forum for Miniature horses, IS the most accessible place for frank discussion and the exchange of ideas. BUT YES, talk MUST translate into action, or it is pointless. I have to say that I have been as 'guilty' as anyone of NOT following up-last year, I was sent a proposed letter to send to AMHA, after the debacle at World-the person sending it had not the time to go forward with it, wished for me to--with all due respect, I found it so 'tippy toe-y' in tone that I just couldn't see putting my name on it--and it fell through the cracks of my life. You can believe me when I say that I will not let that happen again.

Although I was not there at R National '06, I HAVE BEEN at several A Nationals(now World), and I HAVE SEEN what is happening, with my own eyes(and, believe me,it is NOT just at the national level). My observation is that indeed, some horses are measured quite correctly, and some are not; in my observation, it is likely that horses that CLEARLY are smaller will be measured with actual and reasonable accuracy. It appeared that those who 'measured out' tended to belong to newbies or 'small potatoes' exhibitors-to make things look 'good', there has to be some of those. However, it was NOT 'just' the trainers/big name/money owners or exhibitors whose horses were 'accomodated...though in several previous years, that DID seem to be the case, I firmly believe that it was realized that when ONLY the 'big names' were 'accomodated', others were more upset- so, to 'head off' genuine upheaval, many were 'measured short', as a matter of course--after all, how many complain that their horse is 'TOO SHORT'? Marks were made on horses I saw; the mark was well BELOW the 'last hair of the mane' -which I am very good at determining. Videotaping the measurement, as I saw it being done, is IMO worthless; the only way it *might* be of any real use would be if a camera looked straight down from above onto the measurement-AND, no part of the measurer or anyone else's body blocked ANY of the procedure--and that is not going to happen. My point? That there are,unfortunately, 'ways and ways' in which this 'fudging'(to use a polite term)can and does happen, and from everyone involved. It is my opinion that the 'powers-that-be', in either organization,for the most part would rather NOT even be told about these kinds of issues, because they do NOT want to 'have to' deal with them(and honestly, it is also my opinion that this is pretty much the case in every horse breed organization that I have any knowledge of....)! Who wants to try to do a job PRECISELY according to the rules when there is not the support at the 'management' level-and when doing so may well mean you are subjected to all kinds of abuse? (I realize there are those who pride themselves on being tough and willing to stand up to this kind of thing-and Kudos to them-but such things are unquestionably stressful, and very hard to take, for many. Heck, I am a tough old bird, too-but at this point, life is simply too short and too precious to have to put up with nasty people, so I am unlikely to be signing on to do so....)!

I absolutely think that A has been HURT by some of what has gone on in recent years. It made me ILL to hear that some cheat was able to profit financially off of THE MEMBERS because the BOD didn't follow procedure---anyone know, was this information published in 'OUR' breed magazine? I think that the issues with following the rules of measurement,especially at the World show level, have and are, hurting, as well as things like financial ineptitude and mismanagement, and harder-to-define issues like attitude towards 'ordinary' members. I foresee these same kinds of problems, regarding measuring at least, for R-it appears, in fact, that the problems have already arrived there!

I agree with other excellent points made here-as in those regarding turning these from 'height' registries into 'genuine' breeds. I will keep my opinions on ASPC/AMHR for a different thread; as Kay noted, that is not what this one is about. I will note, though, that in my (admittedly old-1990)copy of the AHSA(now USEF, I believe) Rulebook, there is indeed a Shetland division--and, I'm betting, ASPC is still a part? Anyone know, for sure? If it is, then to me, this would bring up some interesting points about jurisdiction? I used to resist the idea of 'having to' be under the auspices of (now) USEF-there are numerous fees(or were; I haven't paid attention in quite a while...),including a non-member fee-that is, if YOU, the exhibitor, aren't a member of (now)USEF, and wish to show at a sanctioned show, YOU had to pay that fee--basically, IMO, a method to 'force' everyone to pay a membership to USEF(old AHSA). I resented that--but, in today's world, it may indeed be the 'best' answer to many of these problems, in both the miniature horse registries. Although it sometimes seems to take them a good while(thinking of some of the suspensions of trainers for certain unconscienable practices, and of the sorry Ba***ards who participated in killing horses for the insurance, to name a couple of which I am aware)....USEF at least seems willing,and able, to enforce rules,and impose penalties!

Margo
 
I am curious if the threats were actually heard or received by someone on this thread, or if they were received as innuendo and rumor...I have heard the rumors as well, but having never actually overheard a threat being delivered or received one myself, I find myself not able to do much about it. You can bet your bottom dollar that if I DID overhear or receive a threat of this nature, I would not go right to the show office, I would go to the POLICE. Because it is absolutely and very definitely against the law to do this sort of thing! I would report to the police, then the show office, and if I felt strongly about my personal safety or that of my horse's, I would pack up and leave.

I am not feeling like it is worth it really, to travel across the country at great expense if this is what is going on. I have some really nice horses, but would feel pretty satisfied to show in the greater NW region and in some CDEs. Not worth it if the national show is overrun with cheaters and law-breakers.
 
Just pay my air fare!!

I know NO-ONE by sight.

I am trained to measure and will take any test you offer.

Yell at me all you want, it will NOT change my mind!!

I do not care WHO I offend!!! (Well, we all know that, anyway!!)

So- get it sorted and I will be there.

I'll even join AMHR!!
Sorry, you actually need to be an exhibitor in the class in order to protest.

As far as threats made toward "Lavern" - I spent a LOT of time with her at the show (no - she did not have any horses exhibiting but she was there). She was NEVER threatened. Geez, I hate this forum and how it generates totally unfound RUMORS and INUENDO !!!!!!!!! Criminy !!

Back to the issue ....

There has been a suggestion made that the top 2 horses must measure again immediately after the class. This might come up at the Convention. Not sure if that will actually make it's way onto the agenda since I believe it was not submitted in a timely manner in accordance with the rules. But if it is an issue that sticks in people's craws -- then they should follow the rules for submitting it for the convention next year....and then [SIZE=14pt]make sure they are there to defend it. [/SIZE] Doesn't mean it will fly the first time....the second time....or even the third time it's submitted. But if people persevere enough, eventually a change of SOME type will be made. Rome wasn't built in a day...so it takes patience to make change, especially to do it right. It means that changes are made with well thought out reason, and not just passion. Not saying this isn't an issue, I'm just saying it needs to be done carefully so that someone can't come along later and shoot holes in it or even totally trash what little change was made.

"Cheater hairs" are definitely an issue. AMHA tried to address this by having a non-biased (is there really such an entity???) person take a marker and put a dot where the measuring stick had to go. I've measured at AMHA shows (I am not an AMHA steward but in AMHA they do not have stewards), and I do not let people get by with cheater hairs. I also do not allow them to touch their horses and I do not allow them to stretch them out. I do not look at the measuring slip that tells what class the horse is entered in until AFTER I measure the horse. If someone tells me "He has to be under 32" - I try to cut them off before they have a chance to tell me - and I say....."I'll measure him where I get him - don't tell me where he HAS to be." Ticks a few people off but you would be surprised how many exhibitors thank me (especially those that are watching me measure other people's "questionable" ones).

I had a discussion with a trainer who happens to be a friend of mine. I was told .... and I have to agree .... "it is my job to do whatever it takes to get a horse into a class where it will be to it's best advantage.... and if someone catches that and moves the horse into the proper class, so be it." He's right. He just won't get away with it if I'm measuring (GRIN).

Hmmmm......maybe I need to go get my ASPC/AMHR stewards card.
 
Jean I think you have misunderstood my point.

I was offering to measure, not protest.

If the measuring is done correctly then these protest would not be needed.
 
I don't show nor have I shown. Its sad to see things like this, cause it makes me not want to show, or have anything to do with the miniature horse registerys, WICH IS SAD. When I think of the american miniature horse I think of a fun breed, everything you do with miniatures is fun, the people are nice and fun. And then I see things like this and the brutal things other miniature horse people do to the other people and I just think why does anyone want to be involved witih them. . .

IMO when you protest they should have a way to do it privatly. What I think they should do is have unoffical placings, and have to wait till the next day to get their offical placings, and then you have a whole day to protest(wich you should be able to do privatly) and if no-one has protested about a certain horse then it will become offical, if a certain horse has been protested against in that day they have to protest, then they should have a group of diferen't people to mesure that horse, and if it is not in the requirments then DQ it. And move the horses that placed behind it up a placing. This is somthing that needs to be fixed! I have never been to nationals but I have friends who have, and missed out on a national titles to make things right, and be honest. Wich is sad sad sad.

Maybe Im not even seeing the real problem, but I think its wrong, and with just a little thinking and a little planning they could have it fixed. Just by having the unoffical placings I think it would be fixed. And if you want to protest, I think you should be able to do it and not have ONE person know that you protested.

JMO (Wich is worth nothing. . .)

Gage
 
Jean I think you have misunderstood my point.

I was offering to measure, not protest.

If the measuring is done correctly then these protest would not be needed.
No....I didn't miss your point. If you walked up to my stalls and wanted to measure one of my horses because in YOUR opinion it was measured by the stewards improperly, I would send you packing! And if you still insisted on it, I would either have Security or the police escort you off the grounds. Do it within the rules or don't do it at all. (i.e., have a horse in the class, slap down your $50 protest fee...if not willing to do that, then you are just blowing hot air)
 
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first of all jean please dont take it out on the forum!! I have to say i am sorry now that i posted this and maybe i should ask mary lou to take it off. This is starting to get really personal.

Soooo if it gets this heated just TALKING about it (my phone has been ringing off the hook!) then surely you guys can see how bad it would get if someoen actually protested.

For those who are now thinking of not showing PLEASE dont think that way!! i have a blast showing! And I had a blast showing at nationals! I wont give up and I wont give in. Show your horse learn and have fun.

and i wish you would become an amhr steward
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I realize that the stewards are terribly busy at any show, yet it seems that measuring needs to be done in a more public setting, with as many people as possible watching, rather than off in an out-of-the-way hallway like at the AMHR shows I've attended.

All the shows seem to offer coffee an donuts, so how about setting up chairs and conducting measurements where these goodies are served. Nobody may have time to sit and watch for any length of time, but everyone finds time to get free food and coffee!

I think any deceptive practices or intimidation of measuring stewards would greatly decrease if it had to be done in front of one's peers.
 
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