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TPs flat rock acres

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Can someone please let me know or if there is a site that explains if a mare is in foal and problems arise like having to turn a foal, What steps one should take if you are waiting for the vet or can't get a vet? Just want to make sure I am totally ready "incase" My first two mares knew what to do and did it all without me. I am hoping to be there for the maiden mares that are expecting and just in case there are problems want to know how to tackle them.

thanks
 
Studies have shown that having a protocol for dystocias even at the hospital level does not greatly increase survival of the foal.

The only thing shown to help improve survivability is the speed with which Veterinary care started. You should have a relationship with a Vet prior to a dystocia.

As for what to do prior to Vet arrival, you may not be impressed, but these are the most common mistakes that I find;

1) Call the Vet and wait beside a land line for the return call. Do not call and then run right back out to the barn. Getting Vet care present must be the first priority and must be followed through until finished.

2) Get all of the vehicles out of the way so the Vet can get their vehicle, that contains all of the emergency equipment in it, closest to the barn.

3) Get the mare in the barn.

4) Get the area well bedded, if you don't have straw then use hay.

5) Have the area well lit.

6) Have at least 1 'able' body, but don't have the whole neighborhood there.

7) Get warm water if the Vet doesn't carry it.

8) Have a few towels.

9) AFTER all of those things are done, you can give the mare Banamine.

10) FINALLY, if you are capable, now you can lube the mare and gently attempt correction.

Sadly, far too often, owners start with #10 thus delaying Vet care and lowering survivability.

Dr Taylor
 
Thank you Dr. Taylor I really appricate it. I have two vets One I have called to let her know we will be having babies this month and to give me all number to call her if there is a problem and I have to get the other vets number. I will post them in the barn as well as in my tack box and cell phone. Thank god my house is only 150 feet from the house
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but if I go absent minded when I have pups I know when the mares are in labor I pray I don't go absent minded for them. Do you have advise on how to turn a foal if not positioned correctly? never have done this and haven' tfound a link that tells steps on doing it.
 
Studies have shown that having a protocol for dystocias even at the hospital level does not greatly increase survival of the foal.

The only thing shown to help improve survivability is the speed with which Veterinary care started. You should have a relationship with a Vet prior to a dystocia.

As for what to do prior to Vet arrival, you may not be impressed, but these are the most common mistakes that I find;

1) Call the Vet and wait beside a land line for the return call. Do not call and then run right back out to the barn. Getting Vet care present must be the first priority and must be followed through until finished.

2) Get all of the vehicles out of the way so the Vet can get their vehicle, that contains all of the emergency equipment in it, closest to the barn.

3) Get the mare in the barn.

4) Get the area well bedded, if you don't have straw then use hay.

5) Have the area well lit.

6) Have at least 1 'able' body, but don't have the whole neighborhood there.

7) Get warm water if the Vet doesn't carry it.

8) Have a few towels.

9) AFTER all of those things are done, you can give the mare Banamine.

10) FINALLY, if you are capable, now you can lube the mare and gently attempt correction.

Sadly, far too often, owners start with #10 thus delaying Vet care and lowering survivability.

Dr Taylor
Thank you Dr Taylor, I have printed this off and when I have read it enough I will stick it up in the barn.
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May I recommend purchasing the book "Blessed Are The Broodmares." You may also check out Scott Creeks website they have a section on resolving dystocia if your Vet can't arrive in time.
 
I would agree with purchasing the book" Blessed are the Brood Mares" and learn as much as you can , the web site for the" I AM RANCH " someone on here might have the correct web address !! is great, they even have videos of things like red bags...something that if you wait for the vet to arrive you will probably end up up with a dead foal....sometimes just helping in a small way will resolve the problem straight away that could be made worse if you just sit around and wait for the vet....

just my opinion..
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Here is the link to the Scott Creek website. Scott Creek Dystocia Article

I think Dr Taylor has given excellent advice. I also have gotten a lot of helpful information from my favorite foaling book, Complete Book of Foaling by Theresa Jones.
 
sometimes just helping in a small way will resolve the problem straight away that could be made worse if you just sit around and wait for the vet....

just my opinion..
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I appreciate the sentiment. I also understand that I will never have that empty feeling of watching a catastrophe and feeling like I should do something rather than waiting on the Vet (my Dad is a Vet also, so I've never waited on a Vet).

But, 'primo no nocere', 'first do no harm', is every Doctor's creed for a reason. Another lighter version is, 'DON'T JUST DO SOMETHING, stand there'.

I have never had the occurrence where if an owner would have just repositioned this or that just a little then maybe things would have been better. Instead it has been a common occurrence for me to be in a spot where the owner did something wrong (but well intentioned) and created more problems.

Dr Taylor
 
Where I live.... well lets say sometimes its very hard to get a vet here so I try to learn as much as I possibly can so if I can't get ahold of a vet because they are at another farm/emergency or just can't get ahold of them I am the type of person I can't just wait and let something happened. With my dogs if I had done that I would have lost pups and maybe the entire litter because I wasn't able to get a vet out to me or in touch with a vet. mind you we are at least 1 hour away from most small animal vets and the other two horse vets are at least 1/2 hour or so. If there is something that I can possibly do to not loose the foal without causing harm I need to know as I have been in the situation before where I was by myself and had no one else here to help (vet wise) I have learned to give iv's under the skin by one vet in canada, tube feed (hate that) and bring pups back to live. With dogs we don't have to worry as much about how they are coming out. We like front feet and head first but sometimes they are breeched but everything is ok. With horses that is a different story. Not sure how to go in and turn one but I need to learn this in case I have to do it. Pray to St. Francis I don't have to but I do like to know more so in those cases were someone needs to know at least something to help out. Hate where I live...no mans land.
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If you're determined to LEARN, I would recommend that you allow yourself the TIME to establish yourself with an equine vet. Perhaps there is something, like a community college, that has courses on horse health? Or, do you have other horse breeders with a few years experience foaling within three hours from you?

If you're serious about learning, as you are indicating, be willing to give up a couple of days or a weekend and travel to whatever is available.

To give you an example, my husband and I would go to people's farms/ranches, often hours away, and camp out at their place when a mare was very close to foaling. Sometimes all we learned was the mare's signs/behaviors in late gestation and then had to go home. But a few times we lucked out and either witnessed or helped take part in a birth. Once, it was a distocia that didn't end well.
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It was a sad learning experience, but we did learn.

Then, we met a vet, who became our primary vet for approximately 15 years, who was willing to teach us all sorts of "self vetting" things. We have since moved into an area where what he's taught us is even more valuable, because like you, when things go wrong it takes awhile for a vet to reach us.

It sounds as if you are wanting to be proactive and good for you! Keep researching and don't be afraid to pick vets' and other breeder's brains.........Make friends with those long timers and find a mentor!
 
The hardest thing about dealing with dystocias is that it takes experience as much or more than knowledge. As most people aren't exposed to that many mares and as mares don't have problems as often as other species then the learning curve is slow.

Frankly, if I was talking to another Vet, I'd advise doing almost nothing to the foal when presented with a dystocia. Rather, I would encourage setting an IV catheter and begin treating the mare for shock while putting her under anesthesia. Most of the time the foal either is dead or will die soon. Don't lose the mare. Once she's stable then you can start trying to pull the foal.

Dr Taylor
 
I'm with Castle Rock (Diane), I *have* to do something. Basically all of the steps are already covered on that list here, I have my cell phone with me so I can be in the barn with the mare, and unless the mare is aborting early, I have the well-lit, bedded stall and towels all ready. There is always a clear road to the barn. I wait to get warm water if needed because it could just go cold waiting for the vet. I've saved a lot of foals, by doing something. I'm not saying that everyone can or should, but I studied diligently before I began foaling out mares, and I've had several red bags and quite a few dystocias. The very first thing I do is call the vet, but every single time (so far) I've gotten the foal out on my own before the vet arrived. There were a couple of times that I didn't think it would be possible. We aren't just down the street from a vet either, as others have said, it's usually a good hour, at least, before a vet can get here. My priority is the mare's well-being, so I am supremely careful not to harm her. It just makes sense to me to get that foal out if at all possible (gently!) to spare the mare any more trauma than necessary. When the vet does arrive, he/she checks both the mare and foal over and does whatever is necessary for the aftercare.

The Catch-22 is that you can't get experience without actually doing it, and if you don't do it you won't get the experience. I definitely agree-- First do no harm!
 
I have to agree with you Diane I couldn't just stand there and wait as there has been too many times for me as well that the vet didn't show up. Hate to be at their mercy and didn't try something. Heck who knows maybe with a little luck and lots of prayers something might work and one learns something new.
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I know I have.
 
I live in an area where the only horse vet lives an hour away. But when I call her, even in the middle of the night, she always answers or calls me back within 10 minutes. She always asks me questions to find out where things stand with the mare. She walks me through what to do while she determines if she needs to come to the farm, or to keep the mare comfortable till she arrives. Just talking to her over the phone is comforting to ME.

Another thing I did when we began our first foaling season, was type out the procedure for a normal delivery and also dealing with a red bag delivery, etc. and kept these down in the barn. Sometimes procedures are hard to remember, but these papers are within reach while you are in the barn with your mare.

Chances are good all will go well for you, but it is important to be prepared for anything.

GOOD LUCK
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Now on another note: after you have called the vet and they can not get there in time, and you know you have to do something.

This is what I was told when I was put in this position, and I am comfortable going in and checking the situation out. I was told this by Joanne Ross (Scott Creek), when you go in to reposition the foal, close your eyes and think about what a horse looks like while feeling the foal, this will help you tell what you are feeling. Because it can be very difficult to tell what part of the foal you are touching if you are not experienced at this.

I repositioned a foal that had it's head down between it's front legs and was upside down. Everything turned out fine.

Another thing that might be good advise is to get to know some breeders that have done this many of times (like Scott Creek) that wouldn't mind if you called with a problem and the vet could not get there in time. Sometimes if you are comfortable with horses and just need someone to help talk you through helping the mare and reposition the foal, you might be able to save both the mare and foal.

All your emergency contacts should be with your foaling kit or programmed into your phone.

Good luck to everyone and hope you don't have to deal with this problem during foaling season.
 
I think the best thing you can do is educate yourself on when to intervene and when to rely on the mare or wait for vet. Getting involved unnecessarily can screw things up and not getting involved can also be a mistake. Certain situation pose more risk to foal and mare. For example, do you wait on a red bag? No, I wouldn't. If you wait, you limit your options and potential outcome of a live foal.

I can attest from personal experience with dystocia that waiting for a vet is not a black and white decision. Relying on a vet can be a mistake and disappointment. For example, 2 years ago I waited about an hour for the vet to show up for a dystocia. Then she worked for over an hour on getting the foal out before telling me to try because she was having trouble. I got the foal out in about 10 minutes and still lost both foal and mare. I could have had the foal out 2 hours earlier if I had just had enough confidence to do it myself. I will never know if the otcome would have been better, but I will always wonder.

If the vet was always here in 15 minutes and always more effective. I might be more likely to wait for help in the future.
 
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I've been foaling out horses for 30+ years now... but I was still terrified about the problems of minis when I began with them - my vet told me that the dozen years I'd been lambing sheep would pay off with the minis, and that I'd be fine.

Wouldn't you know it, but the first mare to foal here had her baby twisted into a pretzel - and I managed to get him out!

Minis sure do have way more problems than the big girls, but over the years, having gotten talked into being a midwife for others, we've managed to save many who would otherwise have been lost. My farm vet gave me a HUGE compliment last year when she told me not to worry about calling her to come out, that if *I* can't get the foal out, the mare needs to go to the clinic. In 6 years we've only needed to send 4 mares to a clinic, and all 4 times I was praised by the attending vets for not causing any extra damage to the mares... that they didn't often see them in such good shape by the time they got to the clinic.

So at least I know I'm in the right business!
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in most things, my vet advises the "Don't do something, just stand there" approach whenever possible (she calls it "benign neglect" - but she has always said not to hesitate to get in there with a foaling mare - in the very least so you can explain the foal's position to the vet.

I have known people who have caused their foals and/or mares to die by doing the wrong thing or causing more damage - there's definitely a learning curve. Watching other people's foaling and all the reading that's been advised in this thread.

Make no mistake - mares foaling is an explosive and dangerous process... for everyone involved... even when it all goes well!
 
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