Bond Bred Horses

[Tremor]

I have voiced before, my wariness of Bond bred minis and now that I have a colt with Bond bred horses in his pedigree, I just want to do more research.

My 2013 colt has Bonds Tiny Tim in his pedigree twice, and I'm curious about the offspring that he produced.

Bond Trickum & Bond Lollipop. These two also produced a stallion named Bond Spark in the Dark.

Any input? Here's the line that his colt has. Any info on these horses would be fabulous. I have a good idea of A LOT of the minis in my colt's lines except for Bond bred horses. : http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/bond+glowing+sensation

(Its far enough back that it shouldn't have any affect, but my curiosity has been perked.)

 

It's highly accepted that Bond TIny Tim was a dwarf, and Tiny Tim was discussed here years ago if you do a search for topics.

As far as production, he was the sire of Bond Miss Rie, 1984 Reserve National Grand Champion Senior Mare, whose daughter, Little Lucy B was 1986 National Champion Senior Mares 30 and under, and also 1987 National Grand Champion Senior Mare. He sired 36 foals registered in AMHA.

As John E, said in a 2007 discusion about Tiny Tim,

"individual horses that are non-carriers can easily exist from pedigrees of known dwarfs. 25% of all the foals born to two carriers of a specific type will be genetically normal and never produce a dwarf of the same type, because that 25% did not inherit the defective gene from either parent."

 

[MiniNHF]

I did a chart of 6 gens back on my young stallion and he has a handful of Bond horses in his pedigree on his Dam's side only but Bond Tiny Tim doesnt popp up until the 6th gen where he produced Bond Jocko (Dam was Bond Honeydew) who I have a picture of that was asmall but doesnt appear to be dwarf.

The last bond horse he has is 3rd gen which was bred with NFC Egyptian Kings Top Account who produced his grandmother (Grosshill EKS Top Temptation).

The only really Bond horse of note he has is Bond Sir Galahad who I also have a picture of.

The others I could not find any information or photos on:

• Bond Cinnamon Surprise
• Bond Coy Toy
• Bond Gold Jubilee
• Bond Marbles
• Bond Sandpappy
• Bond Stencil
• Bond Caesar
• Bond Samantha
• Bond Free Lance
• Bond Honeydew

 

[madmax]

I have a little bit of info you might find interesting. I attended a Bond production sale in 1986 held at his farm in Georgia. I bought a sorrel pinto mare sired by Jocko out of Marbles. She went oversized, she was the only mare I ever had that could not get pregnant; we used her for kids, a great driving horse and in leadline, showed her AMHR. Beautiful color and head, great temperment.
Her full brother was Coy Toy, the sire of Cinnamon Surprise. Cinnamon Surprise went through the Grosshill dispersal sale in 2002, I attended this sale in Ocala Florida, and she was the mare I wanted to buy - well I had to drop out because of the high bids - she sold for $16,500. My notes say Falcon Ridge Farm got her. Her dam was Gold Jubilee.
I believe Bond Jocko sired the exceptional and beautiful Bond Dynamo.
At the Bond Sale, I bid on Sugar Wafer and had to drop out, Kay Pate (now Modern Minis) bought her and this mare has produced many great horses for her. (!!my what might have been) She sold for $4500.
Sandpappy was in the sale $700. Coy Toy sold for $2900. Cracker Crumble C, later National Grand Champion Stallion, $475. !! Picador, $4000 was bought by BLue Ribbon (Ed Sisk), dam was Honeydew that is known as an excellent producer.
Shadow , sold for $900, Spark in the Dark $2100.
Obviously I still have my sale catalog; I have a box full of catalogs, they are full of history and reference.
I recall that the horses were of good quality with beautiful heads; his stallions were out in the pasture, small but looked good. He did have about 4 or 5 dwarves in the barn to sell after the sale, but I think he put maybe 3 in the sale, perhaps $600 to $1800 (I think, those small ones he labeled 'grade') they looked functional, he called them munchkins.
There were 128 horses in the sale, Brewers were there and Dent as well.

I saw Bond Miss Rie at a Kentucky show in 1984, she was normal in every way, very pretty and little. I think I have a photo 'somewhere' I snapped. I took photos of Egyptian King, Bond Snippet and the great L&D Scout. There was also a full sister to Bond COy Toy showing that was beautiful, can't remember her name at the moment.

 

[MiniNHF]

Wow thank you for all that info, gives a little insight to a few on my list

I have a little bit of info you might find interesting. I attended a Bond production sale in 1986 held at his farm in Georgia. I bought a sorrel pinto mare sired by Jocko out of Marbles. She went oversized, she was the only mare I ever had that could not get pregnant; we used her for kids, a great driving horse and in leadline, showed her AMHR. Beautiful color and head, great temperment.
Her full brother was Coy Toy, the sire of Cinnamon Surprise. Cinnamon Surprise went through the Grosshill dispersal sale in 2002, I attended this sale in Ocala Florida, and she was the mare I wanted to buy - well I had to drop out because of the high bids - she sold for $16,500. My notes say Falcon Ridge Farm got her. Her dam was Gold Jubilee.
I believe Bond Jocko sired the exceptional and beautiful Bond Dynamo.
At the Bond Sale, I bid on Sugar Wafer and had to drop out, Kay Pate (now Modern Minis) bought her and this mare has produced many great horses for her. (!!my what might have been) She sold for $4500.
Sandpappy was in the sale $700. Coy Toy sold for $2900. Cracker Crumble C, later National Grand Champion Stallion, $475. !! Picador, $4000 was bought by BLue Ribbon (Ed Sisk), dam was Honeydew that is known as an excellent producer.
Shadow , sold for $900, Spark in the Dark $2100.
Obviously I still have my sale catalog; I have a box full of catalogs, they are full of history and reference.
I recall that the horses were of good quality with beautiful heads; his stallions were out in the pasture, small but looked good. He did have about 4 or 5 dwarves in the barn to sell after the sale, but I think he put maybe 3 in the sale, perhaps $600 to $1800 (I think, those small ones he labeled 'grade') they looked functional, he called them munchkins.
There were 128 horses in the sale, Brewers were there and Dent as well.

I saw Bond Miss Rie at a Kentucky show in 1984, she was normal in every way, very pretty and little. I think I have a photo 'somewhere' I snapped. I took photos of Egyptian King, Bond Snippet and the great L&D Scout. There was also a full sister to Bond COy Toy showing that was beautiful, can't remember her name at the moment.

 

[Tremor]

Thanks for the input! I'm glad to hear that they had pretty little heads. From my research on my colt and pedigree, his top side has a lot of NICE minis! I wish I knew the same for his dam side (I know as far as his grand-dam/sire. *sigh*)

 

[amysue]

I have a heavily Bond bred stallion and he has always produced lovely foals. He is more of the heavy structure type of the older style minis, but my buyers desire horses of his structure for driving, pulling and breaking to carry small children. I kept one of my stallions colts and plan to add him to my program as he stayed very small and petite, and gets compliments everywhere we go. many people ask if he produces the "bubble head" babies, and I have yet to get one from him like that. I added two pics, one of my stud and of the colt I plan to breed. I like their head structures, and my vet even complimented them, and she is very professionally critical (because she knows I respect her opinion).

 

[Barefootin]

We have a stallion sired by Bond Charlie Boy. http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/jimmy+deans+fussbuster He is only 29" and definitely not a dwarf. He has a very pretty head and more of a stock horse body. He consistently produces foals with big hearts and fantastic conformation.

 

[madmax]

barefootin, I really like your horse and his type of build, beautifully balanced.

 

[Barefootin]

Thank you Madmax! We like him also. He is the grandsire of our buckskin colt that did so well in Liberty this summer. He is the best babysitter. He even lets my APHA stallion use him for a pacifier. LOL

 

[HGFarm]

I also avoid Bond bred horses just because of what I call a 'haphazard' breeding program and knowingly using dwarfs for breeding. A friend of mine had spoken to him at one time and he didnt mind making dwarfs- he sold them for good money and when they died at an earlier age than normal because of the many issues that go along with dwarfism, they would come back to buy another horse.

Other friends weeded the Bond horses out of their herd years ago, because of the gene and they did end up with dwarfs from one stallion they had, which was gelded immediately.

I will admit I have seen some of the horses that were very beautiful but I guess that is always just in the back of my mind and I just make it a point to avoid those lines, as I know of others who have had dwarfs from that same line. Sad because I am sure there are some great ones out there.

 

[Tremor]

I also avoid Bond bred horses just because of what I call a 'haphazard' breeding program and knowingly using dwarfs for breeding. A friend of mine had spoken to him at one time and he didnt mind making dwarfs- he sold them for good money and when they died at an earlier age than normal because of the many issues that go along with dwarfism, they would come back to buy another horse.

Other friends weeded the Bond horses out of their herd years ago, because of the gene and they did end up with dwarfs from one stallion they had, which was gelded immediately.

I will admit I have seen some of the horses that were very beautiful but I guess that is always just in the back of my mind and I just make it a point to avoid those lines, as I know of others who have had dwarfs from that same line. Sad because I am sure there are some great ones out there.

This was definitely my thinking. My colt has Bond bred horses in his top side 5+ generations back and they're the only thing that worries me besides the Komokos.
Before I got my colt (I was offered him. I wasn't looking for one) I actually almost turned him down due to the Bond in him. (Not because I am planning on keeping him intact or anything, but just the stigma and my own personal dislike. Gelding or not, I wasn't keen on having those lines at all in any of my horses, because it INSTANTLY gives them a bad name and causes people to assume that they're carriers due to dwarves WAY back in their lineage.)

So glad I didn't though!

 

[bevann]

I have seen some very beautiful Bond bred horses,but after visiting with Mr.Bond in the late 1980s and personally seeing 3 dwarf stallions in the breeding barn(was told they were in there for the kids to play with-yeah&I'm a dumb blonde who just fell off the turnip truck)I left without making a purchase.I also visited Komoko and saw intact dwarf Minis there. Wouldn't it be nice if there were no dwarf Minis-maybe someday(I know I'm dreaming)

 

[Minimor]

I have only one mare that has any Bond breeding--she is a granddaughter of Bond Exchequer. A lady who knew Exchequer well (she also knew Mr. Bond) told me that Mr. Bond did not like Exchequer...because Exchequer was not one of his smallest Minis....I am inclined to think that this was a good thing!

This particular mare has had several foals for us and they are all extremely pretty--she and her babies do not show any sign of anything "dwarf". If by chance she does carry a dwarf gene, she hides it well.

 

[Magic Marker Minis]

I've known about the Bond horses (Bond Tiny Tim = dwarf) but didn't know about the Komokos line... Is there a specific dwarf name to look for (like with Tiny Tim)? I thought the Komokos bloodlines were good to have...

I have some Komokos and Bond in my breeding, but way back in their bloodlines.

Kari

 

[Tremor]

I've known about the Bond horses (Bond Tiny Tim = dwarf) but didn't know about the Komokos line... Is there a specific dwarf name to look for (like with Tiny Tim)? I thought the Komokos bloodlines were good to have...

I have some Komokos and Bond in my breeding, but way back in their bloodlines.

Kari

You could take a gander at this thread.

http://www.miniaturehorsetalk.com/index.php?showtopic=134724&page=7

 

[madmax]

I believe one should use caution in painting an entire line of a breeder with such a broad brush. It is important to remember that 40/50 years ago these very early breeders were not trying to produce a show horse, but to produce 'the smallest horse'. Also, the horses of today of course come from these early ones, and I happen to know first hand that before the registry was closed, a few newer breeders would buy from the old ones, throw away the papers and put their own name on the animals. Also, there are a number of pedigrees that are not accurate on purpose.

It pays to know how trustworthy your breeder is, and those that have kept dozens of years of records because they are proud of, lets name it, their lifes work. There are some very well known breeders in this business that based their herds on those prefixes and are highly admired and stock is desired. Breeding is a gamble anyway until the years put in work out problems

Also, there is a difference in dwarfs out in the mare pastures, and ones kept separate in their own corral because compassion stepped in when one did not put them down if they were functional. I have seen a few local dwarfs that appeared normal at birth but went way 'off' as they grew (or did not grow

I am adding a photo of Hussler when he was owned by NFC.

 

[Tremor]

Husseler looks very nice in that picture. There's a difference in him when he's cleaned up and not in pasture/breeding condition.

 

[chandab]

Hussler looks very good in that picture; he looks like a decently put together stocky mini.

 

[Tremor]

Hussler looks very good in that picture; he looks like a decently put together stocky mini.

I think part of the reason that he looks better in this photo is not only his age, level of care, and the angle that the photo is taken. A lot of the other pictures looked to have been taken at questionable times in his life, in pasture condition, not spiffed up like this one, and at an upper level pointing down. Any picture of a mini taken at that level is going to look HORRID, and even taking pictures of a mini from a level angle but pointed at the shoulder/hip instead of the center of the animal will distort how they look. Makes a BIG difference.

The only thing that I am bothered with in that picture is the quality of his hooves. Look at the heel height differences between the front hooves, the back right, and then the back left. Improper trimming, can do A LOT of damage to a horse.

However from this picture I wouldn't knock him off as a poor example to have in a pedigree. I can definitely see him as Komokos Little Kings Supreme's sire. The only thing that I would say that I dislike is his longer back and low tail set. However, that's all I can tell from this picture, but he looks very well cared for.