Bond / Komokos

[Darkstar]

I think Rabbit is probably right in think along the same lines as was causes appy color patterns. With so many different characteristics associated with dwarfism. We are probably dealing with many combinations of genes. The evidence points to a double recessive gene which probably acts as a gateway that allows other dwarfism characteristic genes to become active. It's possible that there could be several "gateway genes" as well.

We should all work together on this problem and find these these genes that are associated with dwarfism. Finding these genes and developing a test that will test for these genes will be a huge step forward for the breed.

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

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I think "doing the right thing" in a breeder is commendable..in the small breeder.... but..... I think we would be gelding and spaying more animals than we can count For a serious breeder to achieve the goal of perfection, we are going to have to take risks to accomplish our goal.

Angie/buckonranch

I guess this statement leaves me a bit confused. Yes there are risks to acheive the goal and yes the horses pay the price you are correct with that. However I am not sure I understand why "doing the right thing" is ok for the small breeder however not the large breeder???? I dont get that. Why wouldnt the large breeder choose to geld the majority of there colts? Dwarf issues or not?(but maybe I am misunderstanding what you are saying)

Selling only the absoulute best not the avg colts would make it pretty simply.. supply and demand. Everyone would want one of your hard to get very amazing top quality horses so the $ would still be there. Large horse breeders seemed to have figured this part of the marketing out.. not sure why we dont follow that lead it is something that always leaves me scratching my head in wonder

 

[skylineminis]

Skylineminis I am curious, from your statement " Conformation, and knowing how to read horses by the shape of their heads for good temperment is the biggest part of good breeding" what shape or what would the head look like that would give good temperment? Thanks, mary

You can tell by the shape of a horses head as to what type of temperment the horse will have. The posisition of the eyes, the dip or buldge in the bridge of the nose and it's posisition in reference to the length of the horses's head. The distance beteween the eyes and ears, the eye expression, it all ties into the disposition that particular horse will/should have.

When I was a teenager, many moons ago in dinasour days, I took a course on horse training and in this training, one of the courses addressed the head vs. temperment and I seem to have retained that knowledge instead of most of the other stuff. It' sure helped me in the past with choosing my breeding stock.

 

[Buckskin gal]

Could you be more explicit and tell us what, say, the different positions of the eyes etc. mean...what would a person look for in avoiding a mean disposition or look for in a great disposition? thanks, mary

Skylineminis I am curious, from your statement " Conformation, and knowing how to read horses by the shape of their heads for good temperment is the biggest part of good breeding" what shape or what would the head look like that would give good temperment? Thanks, mary

You can tell by the shape of a horses head as to what type of temperment the horse will have. The posisition of the eyes, the dip or buldge in the bridge of the nose and it's posisition in reference to the length of the horses's head. The distance beteween the eyes and ears, the eye expression, it all ties into the disposition that particular horse will/should have.

When I was a teenager, many moons ago in dinasour days, I took a course on horse training and in this training, one of the courses addressed the head vs. temperment and I seem to have retained that knowledge instead of most of the other stuff. It' sure helped me in the past on my choosing my breeding stock.

 

[kaykay]

i so agree. the thing is a horse with big head faults can be nasty tempered for a reason. Such as a horse who is pig eyed is normally known as an ill tempered horse. The horse cannot see well or as well as a better conformed horse with a big eye so they are surpised by things going on around them which leads to spookiness and sometimes a bad disposition.

I was looking at a stallion to buy a breeding from a few years ago. I took my girlfriend (ginia) to see him. She said "he has a mean eye" and she was right. I was so thrilled by the rest of him that I had overlooked it. After observing him longer he did live up to the "mean eye" and I did not breed to him.

 

[Lil' Horse Lover]

I used to own a Bond bred stallion and he was an awesome show horse and a great producer! I sold him not too long ago to a lady who will be using him as her senior herd sire. Personally I love the Komoko and Bond breeding.

 

[skylineminis]

Could you be more explicit and tell us what, say, the different positions of the eyes etc. mean...what would a person look for in avoiding a mean disposition or look for in a great disposition? thanks, mary

A horse with eyes set close to the front of their forehead and with a slight concave between the eyes or just below the eyes will usually have a "least desirable" attitude. There will usually be a worried type of wrinkle above the tear ducts of their eyes, kind of like when a person gets an irritation look in their eyebrows. Same thig with the look in the horses eye. The eyes also will not have a nice soft look.

You have to be able to tell the difference of a concave vs. the dish of an Arabian type head. Just because a horse has a dished face, doesn't mean they are a mean tempered horse. You have to apply the otheir signs with it.

A horse with a stubborn streak will have a bow in the bridge of their head between the eyes or just below their eyes. The term "bull headed" applies and they will usually have a triangle shaped eyeset. That's the only way I can describe it.

A well tempermented horse will be wide between the eyes and ears ( more room for brain matter), a nice rounded, soft look to their eye and a straight or slightly dished face, with their eyebrow wrinkles looking like the horse is in a wonderment world. Can't miss on this type of head. Problem is, most people call them dead heads because they are a pleasure to be around. They don't make good show horses because there is not much fire behind those beautiful kind eyes.

 

[skylineminis]

My first thought... that comes right to mind, as it has many years before..IT IS NOT NICE TO FOOL WITH MOTHER NATURE....... and that is just what we are doing.. SO WHAT DO WE EXPECT????? we all know God didnt create Little Horses, they did not come from the Valley of the Little Horses.. and the Kings and queens of Europe.. WEll????

This is absolutely the real situation. Thank you Buckonranch. Miniatures didn't just pop out of the cabbage patch.

Miniature horses are a man made breed/type of horse. The vets I know keep telling me, "ya'll (us breeders of miniatures) have gone far enough." There's beginning to be changes in more than the size of the horse. There's a lot of geneticly changes going on also (which talk to your vet and hopefully they will know something about miniatures) to get that information. They are getting more health problems, breeding problems, behavior problems, etc.......

Someone who breeds minis have to realize that when you change Nature, there's going to be problems we don't like. Learn from them and decide when enough is enough for you. Enjoy the good and bury the bad, then move on with a heavy heart for a while and then, go back to the happiness these little horses bring and rejoice with the things that go right.

 

[hairicane]

Just another example here. A few years ago I bought a 31 inch maiden mare and as part of the deal got to breed her to one of that farms stallions. I chose a lovely 34" stallion that had recently won a national championship at halter. Well she foaled and we almost didnt get the foal out. It had a very dished head and big dome but the foal was very tiny. I posted photos of my new baby and had a LOT of people wanting to buy it including the owners of the sire. It took months but I realized it was a minimal dwarf. Im sure I could have gotten it amha reg. if I had tried. But I didnt and he was placed as a pet dwarf. The mare looked just like most minis looked a few years ago, like the mini outline on the amha papers but not even that old fashioned. The stallion was a modern looking, refined, leggy horse. He was a close relative of a popular stallion at a well known farm and no not Bond or Komokos up close. I feel if u breed minis u could produce a dwarf and of course no one wants to. For me that means I will not be breeding super tiny mares. I have had enough nightmares from the few scary births we had. Believe me there is nothing worse than seeing a mare you bred writhing in agonizing pain trying to pass a baby that cant get out. In over 10 years in minis I have not lost a mare giving birth YET but I know my day will come. I just try to do what I feel is best for me. If I lived very close to an excellent surgical hosital and if c sections didnt run $4-6000 in our area and if I was rich maybe I would feel different. No forget that, I really like my minis big enough to drive but to each his own.